Does anyone know of/have any rules about Slaaneshi noise weapons? In particular I'm looking for sonic blaster rules, but any suggestions as to how to represent one would be greatly appreciated.
Hmm...
An interesting conundrum. I can't remember any of the background descriptions for the sonic weapons, but I shall have a look at it.
Well, the current Chaos Codex has this to say:
"Unleashing waves of devastating harmonics, a sonic blaster rips its target apart. It has two profiles depending on whether it is used to unleash short riffs or a long discordant wail." (And it has the same strength/ap as a bolter, but can choose to be assault 2 or heavy 3.)
That's the small one right?
I'd maybe treat it like a bolter that fires metal storm frag shells, but with greater range penalties.
Also perhaps give it an increased chance to stun targets without bionic ears or helmets, and a negative modifier to pinning tests.
I think this is a case where the Inquisitor rules can accurately represent the weapon as it was intended to work, rather than with a 40k-style tabletop analogy to another weapon.
Unfortunately, Chaos Space marines and their armaments have never been an area of expertise.
As I understand it, the sonic bombardment will deafen and terrify the target, eventually rising to such a crescendo that the soundwaves resonate within the targets and tear them apart...
Maybe some sort of giant flame template weapon that forces (Wp/Ld?) tests not to be pinned or stunned depending on successes, failure by X degrees requires a T test not to take X damage to the head (and chest?).
Negative test modifiers and damage decreases with range, bionic ears will short out blow on a failed T test (possibly with their T decided by their grade advanced/average/crude) and put the character in system shock.
This would be easier if I could remember the fluff to build around or the rules to build with...
Yeah, these are exactly the same problems I ran into! I know what it does, but I don't really know how to represent it...
Your suggestions are all appreciated though. I'm thinking of having two frequencies, the high frequency shot causes (like TheNephew suggested) deafening, terror, split ear drums, popped eyeballs - incapacitating people rather than hurting them. The low frequency would be the damaging spectrum, pulsing sonic waves that burst organs, smash masonry and blow people off their feet, so a more direct damage (2D10?) at semi(3) or something. I'm just throwing ideas around, what do you think?
The best background description of a sonic weapon comes in Fulgrim.
They certainly shouldn't be treated as flame-type weapons, as they don't spread out to a maximum range and then stop dead. Nor are they area-effect weapons, like grenades. All descriptions are clear that they have a wide but distinct directional band.
They are, however, recoil-less and easy to aim, because of their wide band.
I would suggest that they be Range J or E. Roll to hit as normal. If they miss, they still hit their intended target but the operator has not focussed the harmonics properly and, as a result, they only hit that target. If they hit, then the band is wide and powerful enough to hit additional targets. Roll a D10. Any other models within a distance from the initial target equal to or less than the D10 roll in yards is also hit.
Targets that are hit must make an Initiative test. If it is passed, then they drop anything held and press their hands to their ears. If it is failed, if they are wearing a helm or if they have implant weapons or some other reason that prevents them from covering their ears, they are immediately stunned for D3 turns in addition to other effects.
The effects of the sonic blaster are such as to particularly affect soft tissues and internal organs. All hits with a sonic blaster do D6 damage to the head, chest, abdomen and groin.
Nasty enough for you?
Quote from: RobSkib on February 16, 2010, 02:58:51 PMthe high frequency shot causes deafening, terror, split ear drums, popped eyeballs - incapacitating people rather than hurting them.
It'd be an odd world where split eardrums and popped eyeballs don't hurt...
Quote from: RobSkib on February 16, 2010, 02:58:51 PM...the high frequency shot causes (like TheNephew suggested) deafening, terror, split ear drums, popped eyeballs - incapacitating people rather than hurting them....
Don't worry little manling, Slaanesh will not hurt you. I shall merely incapacitate you by popping your eyeballs.
Thinking back to the first Noise Marines rules (and IIRC their first mention outside a Bolt Thrower album) I don't recall them actually doing damage.
I would probably ignore the codices and treat them as "special" weapons troops within a squad rather than saying they grouped up. Their role after all, in terms of Slaanesh's outlook, is probably not to make people's heads explode but to play music which gives them a good send off (and ideally encourages lots of activities which have no place on the battlefield).
The directional nature of the "attack" doesn't make much sense so I'd probably say everything in LOS and to the front quarter of the Noise Marine should be effected.
I'd suggest pinning tests for a start. Something akin to Fear which I'll call Rapture (effects things which cause fear but not those immune to psychological effects) would probably be suitable... though I would probably have the results of the test scale from Frenzy, through a fear-like effect and up to inability to take any action other than movement at a walk... and that controlled by the Noise Marine.
Slaanesh after all is a lover rather than a fighter...
I seem to remember the Shakespeare quote "If music be the food of love, play on. Give me excess of it..." appearing in the WD article and a broad psychological effect seems better than a damaging effect for that to me.
If I had to vote I'd go with PO's proposed rules and give the GM some wiggle room. The target should be at a harsh negative to sense anything (particularly sounds) for the rest of the game. I picture the waves being so harsh that they throw all your senses out of whack, which also fits with Slaneesh. You'd feel the waves rattle in every nerve, roll over your tongue and resonate in your eyes. Even if the minimum of damage is inflicted, the sensory experience is so extreme as to make everything (at least temporarily) seem dull by comparison. This is hard to quantify and could get difficult to track, so I say it's best left to a (RESPONSIBLE) GM on a case by case basis.
QuoteThinking back to the first Noise Marines rules (and IIRC their first mention outside a Bolt Thrower album) I don't recall them actually doing damage.
While I'm not going to disagree with this interpretation, I think it comes from a different 40K era, one in which noise marines ran around with guitars, orks were far more cartoony and rogue traders wore eye patches (well, I guess they're still wearing eye patches...). Anyway, I like the more "modern" view and fully endorse POs suggestions with the above tweaks.
Thanks all, your contributions have been very useful. In the end, after some playtesting, we went with PO's rules as they seemed to fit the idea of noise weapons, but without getting bogged down in extra tests. Our test game had bog roll holders and Jonathan Creek box set DVD cases as a highway running the length of the board - the Sonic Blaster had a blast pulling the highway apart piece by piece!
Just out of interest, how do you think it reloads? Our trial rules were Single shot, Ammo 4, Reload 1 - In practise, the weapon is incredibly (as it should be!) destructive, so although it fires 'pulses' of sound, a single shot IMO represents the destructive force of several seconds of fire. The weapon is also plugged into the wearer (snaps to follow of the model), so how would a music gun run out of music? In the end, we went for a balancing Ammo 4, Reload 1. We figured after 4 blasts, the gun spends a turn playing a verse of music, waiting for the drop again... ;)
Quote from: RobSkib on February 18, 2010, 02:46:19 PMso how would a music gun run out of music?
Well duh? Clearly you have to change the CD at that point. ;D
Quote from: Alyster Wick on February 18, 2010, 02:33:52 PMQuoteThinking back to the first Noise Marines rules (and IIRC their first mention outside a Bolt Thrower album) I don't recall them actually doing damage.
While I'm not going to disagree with this interpretation, I think it comes from a different 40K era, one in which noise marines ran around with guitars, orks were far more cartoony and rogue traders wore eye patches (well, I guess they're still wearing eye patches...). Anyway, I like the more "modern" view and fully endorse POs suggestions with the above tweaks.
I would suggest that the fact that they come from a different era is actually a good thing.
The concept arose as more than just an extra heavy weapon for Slaaneshi Legionaires but has now devolved under the pressure of game balance.
As to guitars - well the inspiration was, after all, the Bolt Thrower album. Quite fitting that they should have guitars.
The initial concept of the Noise Marines evolved through character, and as Inquisitor is a character driven game that seems to me to suit... Some might argue that it is a character which should never have been part of the 40k universe but...
The current incarnation is simply a Legionaire armed with a sonic weapon, it has no innate character, particularly not compared to the Legionaire rocking out in the middle of the battlefield. ;)
Quote from: InquisitorHeidfeld on February 19, 2010, 01:18:37 PMThe current incarnation is simply a Legionaire armed with a sonic weapon, it has no innate character, particularly not compared to the Legionaire rocking out in the middle of the battlefield.
Perhaps, but rocking out is quite difficult to represent on a couple of dice in a way that keeps a game flowing. I will agree that slaanesh is a lover, but wouldn't go so far as to say he's not a fighter. A 'Love Gun' (take that how you will) would be an interesting concept, but not one I think fits the established canon for a sonic blaster. Plus, a love gun wouldn't be able to tear apart a rockrete highway, so I'll stick with PO's rules I think.
QuoteThe concept arose as more than just an extra heavy weapon for Slaaneshi Legionaires but has now devolved under the pressure of game balance.
That's a fair statement. Certainly as the focus of 40K has turned to bigger and bigger armies lots of character was lost in the name of streamlining.
However, I think the root of our disagreement comes down to two different visions of Slaanesh/noise marines. To use a solid example, I look at Slaanesh as more of a Hellraiser kind of god. Lots of whips, chains and leather. There is a sort of beauty to tearing apart the victims, it makes brutality an art form. I think you're coming from more of a Gwar standpoint of excess and showmanship.
These two visions are by no means contradictory (perversion and a sensory experience are strong bonds) and one isn't superior to the other (indeed they mesh quite well) but there can be serious tonal differences. Anyway, this rant is somewhat pointless so I'll just leave it at that.