The Conclave

In the interests of seeing just how "broken" people perceive my core warband to be, I'm posting the second of them to judge responses.

The same caveats apply - Silva, like Marco, may rather need profile adjustment... but I'm hoping she'll prove less controversial.

And because 750 words was apparently too much for some people, the shortened version has been further compressed to only 500 words (which, I would note, is less than the basic profile/equipment section).

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Strength value is basic strength, and does not include bionics

Silva is left handed.
Skills: Heroic, Lightning reflexes, Strong Will
Traits: Soul Bond
Negative Traits: Heavy, Low Organic Mass

Weapons: Pump action shotgun with 12 solid slugs, 12 scatter shot, 3 Bean bag, 3 Disintegrator, 3 Penetrator, 3 Executioner; Left arm bionic weapons; Long combat knife (Short sword).
Armour:  Lightweight flak shirt (3 points to Chest and abdomen), Bionics.
Equipment:  Comm-Link (integral to bionic ear), Facsimile Seal
Bionics: Advanced Left arm with built-in weaponry; Average Right Leg (3 total armour, no other benefits); Head (+2 Armour);  Semi-Advanced Left eye and ear (+10% to awareness); Advanced Bionic Nose.

Facsimile Seal: While not personally possessed of the rank of Inquisitor, Silva is entrusted by Marco with the full use of his authority.

Left Arm: This is a bionic with S60 and 4 points of armour. It incorporates a set of retractable fighting blades (complete with armoured vambraces), a short-range flamethrower and a las-emitter.
All of these items can be drawn or holstered as a free action, can't be dropped, stolen nor switched between hands (i.e. they're very firmly attached to her left arm).

The fighting blades and vambraces are treated as a single weapon.

Reach	Dam	PP
2	2D6	*

Uses the special rules for both a buckler and a lacerator.

The flamethrower is treated as a Hand Flamer with reload X - reloading is a far too complex process to carry out within game.

The las-emitter is treated as a Mars pattern laspistol. It is designed to draw its power from its user to remove the need for power packs, and as such it has an infinite shots characteristic, but sustained fire can injure and tire the user. Each shot after the first made by the emitter in a single turn automatically adds +1 to the user's injury total.

Bionics: Several of the bones in Silva's chest have been heavily reinforced to support the physical strength of her bionics. Although these offer no protection for outer muscle structures, they form an interlocking metallic shield for her internal organs.
As such, hits to the chest are at +1 BIV and additionally follow the rules for the Ossmodula from the "Apocrypha Angeli Mortis" article in Dark Magenta 2.

Strong Will: Ignores Fearsome. Treats Terrifying as Fearsome.

Heavy: Due to numerous bionics, Silva is heavier than a normal human of her stature by a considerable amount. This has the following effects:
-   When swimming, she may only move 2 yards per action, and if the risky action is failed, must pass a toughness test or take D3 damage to her injury total as she swallows water (additional effects might occur according if the fluid is less benign than water!)
-   If moving faster than a walk, the distances at which her movement can be heard are doubled.

However, in some cases, the extra weight is a virtue.
-   Silva's knockback value is doubled to one fifth of her basic strength.

GM may wish to add extra penalties/bonuses as appropriate.

Low organic mass: Loss of two limbs means that Silva's organic mass is actually pretty low. Without this to dilute the concentration of drugs in her system, she is more prone to the effects of such substances than might be expected of a person of her size.
She is at -20% Toughness for tests against poison or drug resistance - however, this penalty does not apply if the dose has been adjusted with this in mind.

Soul bond: Same as discussed in Marco's topic.

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FULL NAME: Silva Abigail Birgen

KNOWN ALIASES: Possible link to "Steel Angel of Giena Hive".

RANK / AFFILIATION: Former Staff Sergeant (#638968412, Pexir 26th);  Part of Inquisitor Marco Skoll's entourage.

AGE / GENDER / APPEARANCE: 39 Terran Years (Born year sector 445), Female
Height: 5' 11"
Weight: 298 lbs
Eyes: Blue (left, cosmetically altered bionic); Green (right)
Hair: Auburn, Chin Length.
Left Handed.

The most obvious thing about Silva is her bionics - the entire left arm including the shoulder and the majority of her right leg. These extend internally, where several areas have been augmetically repaired/reinforced, particularly the ribcage and the left side of the skull. To top off her array of mechanical augmentations, several of her senses have been altered and enhanced.

Although approximately half of her weight is due to her bionics, the remainder is a consequence of her above average height  (a trait of her homeworld, although she is roughly normal by their standards), and the muscle required to cope with the mass of her bionics.

(She also appears in more than a few of my drawings. While you have to accept a certain amount of artistic license and the fact that I'm not actually all that great an artist yet, two reasonable pictures are this one (http://ragnarokeotw.deviantart.com/art/Excessive-force-114804409), and this one where she's less appropriately dressed, but has the revised bionic design (http://ragnarokeotw.deviantart.com/art/7-Days-to-the-Wolves-142319289).)

ATTIRE: Silva is not often found wearing "traditional" female attire, eschewing it in favour of more practical clothing. It is not completely unknown to see otherwise, but usually only by request of her partner Marco - and out of sheer respect, he will usually only ever ask when the situation is sufficiently formal.

As a general rule, she prefers short sleeves, because longer sleeves can interfere with the joints and systems of her bionic arm. Her trousers are typically modified to have legs of different lengths for much the same reason.

She is usually seen with two necklaces - one, the dogtags from her service in the Pexir 26th; the other, a thin leather necklace with grenade pin on it. These two items are a mystery to many of those around her - as she harbours a hatred of her time in the Imperial Guard, and the grenade pin is the one from the trigger mechanism of the improvised explosive that nearly killed her.
The truth is that she wears both as reminders of mistakes in her life.

PERSONALITY: Silva is an astute and pragmatic person with a sarcastic and cynical sense of humour.
Her experience and outlook combine to make her a particularly savvy thinker, with a talent for spotting flaws within plans (either those of an ally or an enemy), the out of place or a potential trap.

Her outlook on life has become considerably more positive in the years since she met Marco and found a purpose beyond simply dying at the whim of an Imperial commander - as a result, her former pessimism has largely become a more realistic viewpoint.
Her perceived lack of purpose had cultivated a tendency  to be highly reckless (although many mistook it for bravery) which persisted for sometime after leaving the Pexir 26th, eventually culminating in the accident on Thrupp V where she lost her limbs.

These days, her bravery is more genuine, a result of having found things worth fighting for than from indifference about dying. She may still appear impulsive at times, but her former recklessness did teach her that acting without hesitation or fear when the chance presents itself is vital. Fortunately, her raw experience of combat has given her a well guided split second instinct for the right course of action.
One notable remnant of her older self is a complete lack of patience for anyone who sees her as a resource rather than a person.

She is not known for quickly bonding with people that she doesn't know, generally preferring to judge people before becoming particularly welcoming. It is not a particularly easy endeavour to gain her trust, but those people who she gets on with can enjoy a firm friend and competent ally.

By way of a pastime, Silva is a reasonably accomplished guitarist, having been playing since her youth. Still a left-handed player even after its replacement, her preferred instrument is a seven steel-stringed guitar which she acquired around six years ago.
Understandably, given her extensive bionics and the her closeness to the reasonably mechanically competent Inquisitor Skoll, she has developed some interest in recreational mechanics (if not particularly notable skill).

Her natural accent is fairly distinctive (although far from unintelligible). Normally, she makes efforts to try and hide it - although when under stress or pressure, her accent tends to revert even if she is otherwise acting fairly calmly or rationally. Given that she is generally the most imperturbable of Marco's entourage, it is therefore not overly surprising that people who know her well find her using her natural accent somewhat unsettling.

BELIEFS: Silva is convinced the Imperium's methods will be its end, attempting to solve problems through massed man-power rather than through intelligence and efficiency.

While she utterly believes in the God-Emperor, she believes vast parts of the Imperium as is to be a complete corruption of His will. She perceives herself as a warrior for the Emperor and humanity, rather than a soldier of the Imperium.

ABILITIES / STRENGTHS / WEAKNESSES: Silva is highly decisive and mentally swift, and is probably even more clear-thinking under pressure than her partner. Although still highly useful today, these traits were a boon to her promotions within the Pexir 26th.

One of Silva's main strengths is sheer physical fitness. Aside from the strength of her bionics, she is otherwise very muscular, and knows how to use her weight in combat. Combined with her study of two martial arts to a reasonably high level, she is highly formidable in hand to hand combat.
However, her potential to be dangerous at range should not be disregarded, as she is well practiced with most light weapons and, when required, capable of handling even the heaviest weaponry with ease.

Although she knows how to use it to her advantage, Silva's weight has its downsides - she can no longer naturally float, and her attempts to swim are therefore slowed by the effort needed to remain above water.
Similarly, the loss of two limbs has dramatically reduced her natural body weight, affecting her tolerance to drugs and toxins fairly heavily.

Her bond with her partner Marco makes her the other half of an efficient combat team, able to work reliably and efficiently when called for.

WEAPONS AND EQUIPMENT: Silva's primary ranged weapon is a pump-action 12 gauge shotgun, laid out in a reasonably short configuration. The functionality and versatility offered by it was something she learnt to favour in the violent city fighting for which the Pexirian regiments are famed for.
It is not, however, the shotgun which she carried in the 26th, as it was considerably damaged by the same blast that took her limbs. Although it could be relatively easily fixed, she prefers to keep it in its battered form, as a reminder of her recklessness.

She does still carry the combat knife from her service years - around two feet in total length from tip to pommel, and with a regularly sharpened edge. She has chosen to learn to wield this blade in her off-hand, a compliment to the weapons integral to her bionic arm.

Her bionics are all high quality models, powered by a bio-electrical exchange and with fitted with advanced neural interfaces. The arm houses several concealed weapons and is fitted with armoured vambraces.

SERVANTS/ACQUAINTANCES: Although she has no specific servants of her own, Silva was a former platoon Staff Sergeant in the Pexir 26th. Based on the structure used in the 26th, she was in command of a platoon of 24 others (three units of eight).

She is familiar with the overwhelming majority of the contacts her partner Marco has, having been with him long enough.

HISTORY: Silva was born in South Hosz (although this is merely wishful wording to get out of admitting to being from the less privileged areas of the hive Hosz), a hive city on the planet Pexir.
Her parents were Raphael Birgen and Lucia Grey (respectively an architect and a medical doctor), and she is the sister to a 23 month older brother (Marek, a Major in the Pexir 25th),  and a year younger sister (Elise, now an aide to the owner of a moderately sized corporation in the higher levels of the hive).

Her education was mostly geared towards her becoming part of an educated profession like her parents, but it was soon clear that she wished for a more active lifestyle, something a planet like Pexir was only too able to offer.

Pexir is a planet highly populated by gang culture, and street fights are far from uncommon. Fortunately for the less violent residents of the hive, most of the gangs are too caught up in fighting between one another, so most cautious people can generally avoid "unpleasant encounters" with them.
As a solution to the long running issue on the planet, Pexir introduced conscription as the penalty for gang membership - while this exerts some control over the gangs, and puts experienced street fighters into the Imperial Guard, some command difficulties result.

Its sector suffers few external threats, so Pexirian Guard regiments are generally put to use fighting internal foes - mutant rebellion, mutinous planets, or heretical sects.
Regiments from Pexir are much favoured for such tasks, given the predisposition of the conscripted gangers for combat in tight streets and cityscapes.

At the age of nineteen, Silva elected to sign on with the Imperial Guard voluntarily, following in the footsteps of her brother.
Like many of the others not affiliated with any given gang, Silva went through the ranks reasonably quickly, for squads were generally formed from members of mixed gangs, and it was preferred for squad leaders not to have any bias between the squad members, nor for the squad mates to have a particular grudge against their leader.

She learnt a mix of various gang languages during this time, a necessity for the NCOs of the regiment to keep control over new recruits. Each Pexirian regiment tended to develop its own combination of these gang languages, which generally saw use as the vox cant. Although Silva still remembers these languages, her use of them is not particularly subtle, mostly using it to swear colourfully without anyone understanding quite what she said.

Eventually reaching the rank of Platoon Staff Sergeant, she was eventually removed from duty under the authority of Inquisitor Byssus during the regiment's actions on the ice planet of Wymec -partly because she had survived an encounter with the ice creatures which were affecting the planet, but more importantly, due to the unnatural circumstances between her and Marco, who was at that time Byssus' acolyte.

After the completion of the Wymec incident, Byssus had Silva permanently seconded to his team to allow him to keep a constant eye on the as-of-yet poorly documented bond between the two.  As a more pragmatic part of this, the pair were able to work together highly efficiently and naturally.

Around two years after Wymec, she was heavily injured on Thrupp V, and was bionically reconstructed as a result, at least partly on the insistence of Marco.
A further year later, the Eidica incident, where the trio were disarmed as part of a security check before meeting with the planetary governor, and were then nearly killed as a result was the motivation to install concealed weapons within her arm.

ASSORTED NOTES:
-   One of the few people in Marco's entourage to refer to Giovanna Ciris by the diminutive Gianna rather than Gio.
-   Known to go off on wild rants when tired, hungry or otherwise deprived of some physical need.
-   Favours strong ales. Quite a heavy drinker - gets drunk relatively fast as a result of her body mass.
-   Her split second reactions are not always a boon. The majority of people around her have learnt the hard way why it's a bad idea to startle her.

QUOTES:
To the Head Magus of a Chaos cult: "Oh come on, with all this cliché around, you'll hurt yourself."

At the trial of Governor Yeios: "I haven't seen this much crap since Sgt. Burns gave his horse too much laxative."

To Inquisitor Lofaire: "What do you know? You've never been shipped to some forsaken world your commander can't even name so that the enemy have something to shoot at. You can't even pretend to know who I am."

In the middle of a firefight: "To do list - Make sarcastic quip, Shoot bad guy, Eat lunch, Save the world."

To Lieuteant Jefaes at the siege of Lsesi: "Lieutenant, would you please take all your overgrown infants away somewhere?"

Repeatedly: "I need a drink."

Marco Skoll to Silva Birgen: "Woman, you are completely off your nut."

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NAME: Silva Abigail Birgen
RANK: Ex Staff Sergeant (Pexir 26th)
AGE / GENDER / APPEARANCE: 39 Terran Years; Female; Height: 5' 11"; Weight: 298 lbs. Blue left eye (cosmetic augmetic replacement), Green right eye; Auburn chin length hair. Left Handed. Heavily bionically reconstructed - left arm and shoulder, right leg and left side of face (latter hidden under syn-skin). Heavily built, partly due to muscle needed to deal with bionic weight. Due to her build, heterochromia and bionics, has a fairly daunting appearance.
ATTIRE: Tends to choose clothing that can be described as "practical" and which doesn't interfere with her bionics.
PERSONALITY: A realist with sarcastic and cynical humour, but with a more positive outlook since she met Marco. Slow to accept people she meets and has next to no patience for people who see her as a resource rather than a person. Likes to be the heroine, and not afraid of danger. Some interest (although limited skill) in recreational mechanics.
BELIEFS: Silva believes in working for humanity, not the Imperium, and sees the Imperium as a stagnant, outdated and inefficient system that will be its own end.
ABILITIES / STRENGTHS / WEAKNESSES: Highly decisive, mentally swift, and known for clear thinking under pressure. Very physically fit, and trained in two martial arts. Knows how to use the strength and weight of her bionics to her advantage. Competent  shot, and capable of handling all but the heaviest weapons without help.
No longer naturally floats, and must exert significant effort to remain above water. Limited organic body mass means that she has limited resistance to drugs and poisons.
WEAPONS/EQUIPMENT:  Pump action 12 gauge with an array of different shells. Considerably sized combat knife.  Concealed weapons within bionic arm - 3 "claw blades", an elbow blade, a las-emitter and a miniature flamer. Tends to wear a flak shirt. Comm-link built into bionic ear.
ACQUAINTANCES: Gets on well with everyone in Marco's entourage.
HISTORY: Born in "South" Hosz, a hive city on Pexir - a planet troubled by gang culture.
Father: Raphael Birgen, architect; Mother: Lucia Grey, medical doctor. Brother (older): Marek, Major in Pexir 25th. Sister (younger): Elise, aide to company owner.
Mostly educated with the intent to become part of an educated profession, but preferred more active "employment", and at age 19, joins Pexir 26th, a city fighting regiment mostly made up of convicted gang members. Aside from some minor difficulties with the officers, her skill and voluntary entry into the regiment sees her promoted to Staff-Sergeant over the next few years. Learns regimental slang over this time - has used it for colourful curses since. Meets Marco at age 25. Crippled on Thrupp V at age 27, receives extensive bionic repair. Has bionic arm fitted with concealed weapons a year later.
NOTES:  Decent guitarist. Plays a seven steel string acoustic.
QUIRKS: Distinctive natural accent which she tries to cover, but when under stress or pressure, it tends to return (even when acting otherwise rationally or calmly); One of the few people to refer to Giovanna as "Gianna"; Prone to ranting when tired or hungry.

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And now, the "For the Emperor's sake, if you're not going to read anything else, read this before asking questions" section...

That S&T for a woman?: Like I say in the background, she weighs nearly 300 pounds with her bionics. If you tried to be anywhere near as active as she is when weighing that much, you'd be pretty strong too. Combine that with an array of augmetic repairs, and I don't think it's unjustifiable - but she is still about the limit of where I'd put a female character.
It doesn't really show up in the drawings I linked, but usually what happens when I start drawing muscled women is that people start complaining that it looks odd.

Arm weapons: Yes, they're nasty - they're meant to be. But if she takes much damage to that arm, she's suddenly without those weapons.
I guess people are still likely to have things to say about them (particularly based on the controversy that managed to surround Marco's sword), but you do need to consider that in the equation.

OMG, BOOBS!: Get out. Just get out.

Okay, what about that Nv value then?: Again, hopefully explained by the background. She spent several years in a state of pretty much depression and became pretty suicidal during this time. While she's now back in the land of the (slightly) more sane, she remains heavily changed by those years and learnt a lot from her behaviour during them.

Abigail?: Well, this ties into the origin of the character idea below. Originally, the character (when she was just part of my art) went by the name of Abigail. I didn't want to completely lose that in the transfer, so it became her middle name.

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I guess most of the longer running members here know the story behind Silva, but I'll reiterate it for those who don't know.

July 12th 2006, I was drawing after a rather odd bet with a friend. Trying to draw a female character, the left arm repeatedly came out wrong. So, I drew exactly what I saw on the art mannequin in front of me, planning to use it as the framework to build the arm up from - I never got that far, because what I had just drawn stuck. She now had a bionic arm, and quickly gained a bionic leg to go with it.

The character has persisted since, in various incarnations of my art. Although my skills have advanced, and her design has been moderately tweaked, she's always been something of a constant.

Mid 2008, I was hunting around for character ideas for a new Inquisitor warband and opened up my sketchbook for ideas - and she was just the obvious choice. Appearance, skill set and personality ready to go, with just a 40k specific background needed. She got the promotion.

For a character I never intended to create, she's done very well for herself.

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And again, there are a couple of references, including another Pink Floyd one...

Looks even more OP than the other one, I assume it's all justified in the backstory though (didn't read it). Really, how do you expect to retain any credibility with your condescending denigration of other people's visions of =][= whilst simoultaneously posting such abominations as this? And I gather you have another character that puts these two in the shade?

Humm., not wanting to tread on anyones toes....but then this is the internet.

Although an Inq noob (but not a gaming one) I agree with Ferran that Marco had more than enough going for him, and could be construed as very much a top end character; compared to him, I see Silva as as a much more rounded PC. As I did bother to read the well thought out background, the stats are explained and justifiable (although I think the Sg could be a bit lower, unless penalties for non-military related knowledge/issues are applied).

Edit: forgot the nerve, I can sort of see that, but personally I dont think recovering from a serious episode of clinical depression necessarily makes anyone a tougher person - if anything, she may project an aura of invicibility but is just as likely to collapse under intense stress. Maybe she sound be subject to a set of rules reflecting the chance of battle fatigue/post traumatic stress disorder with associated stat reductions or enforced actions (ie take cover!) to balance it out

Incidentally, I have a Commissar PC that I will be asking the 'Clave for advice/rules on how to show just that

Not so sure about the number of weapons implanted in her arm, 3 strikes me as a bit much, yep, I can see the blades, and yes I  like the way the las emitter draws on her as a power source. However, its still an arm; blades are thin, no problem and I can see the las emitter being a number of small components spread around the structure, but then you add a flamer as well...humm, arms getting bigger.

Likewise, I have no problems with her having decent bionics - Marco is an Inquisitor and has some skill and influence to at least ensure she's fitted with the best available, but then there are no drawbacks and she gets the additional bonus from the Ossomodula effect.

I think Ferran has a somewhat valid point in that at this rate, the whole squad is looking pretty hard. I would respectfully suggest that its very easy to over work a character and add one or two more attributes than are necessary - trim a couple of minor things off here or there? For example, I dont know the rules for the 'Soul Bond', but I find that kind of thing between a couple a bit....downright feckin wierd. I have never felt/developed an empathic link between myself and any partner/friend/family member (although I can tell when a mate of mine is going to fancy a trip to the pub). Okay, they are close, just role play it - but if anything, it should be a major liability and not entail any gaming bonus.

Personally, I think she is at the level I would pitch my main character, who would have considerably lesser talented sidekicks, but then each to his own and I dont know what level the other PC's at the Conclave will be...

I'm not quite convinced that she could fit all those blades, a lasweapon & a flamer in a normal sized arm without using some very highly advanced technology - that arm contains more tech than anything I've seen the AdMech use so seems out of place on an ex-Guardsman, even one working for an Inquisitor. Otherwise, the background looks good, and I look forwards to seeing her at the Spring Conclave.

I'm not sure on the bionic arm (due to the above) as well as the effects the bionic have in general upon her, esp. her swimming, they would just make her better at swimming not worse (she'd be stronger, although one sided [you say she doesn't naturally float, neither do I and I'm a good strong swimmer]). In addition if the drawing are correct they are not traditional 40k bionics (big and bulky), so personally I think you've placed an unneeded penalty on yourself.   

Stats are about right but she is only 39, so I would think about lowering either her BS or her WS (if only slightly). Also her unmodified S is really high, the kind of S I would give to a body building huge bloke, not a woman of a slender, toned build. T is similar, she doesn't have the organic mass to justify it.
(Quickly using internet converters her 300 pounds comes out at 21 stone, 7' rugby player maybe could get away with that not her. Do you know how hard it is go for any distance with a 20kg rucksack (which is heavier than the SAS standard [~15kg])? Sorry man, can't accept it).
If you want to make her good in CC with out a weapon, why not come up with some rules for her martial arts skills, a good kick would knock someone over/break their knee.

The rest, it is very good. I do like the detail (a bit more on her and Marco would be great), I wish I could be bothered to go to such depths. She will be a great character for campaigns.   

It strikes me that Silva has bionics that are sleeker and more efficient than the standard norm - as well as incorporating all manner of equipment. Whilst Marco is an Inquisitor, all manner of Space Marine Chapters would probably like such bionic enhancement. Given that they're equipped to spit acid, you'd think they would want to hide away weaponry in their bionics if they could. I have to admit that it's somewhat amusing that Silva has a bionic nose, a bionic eye and a bionic ear, yet still looks young and attractive in her pictures!

Could you perhaps alter the guns within her arm to be digital weapon(s)? Whereas a hand flamer can fire four times, perhaps allowing her arm to fire a single time would negate some of the potential advantages?

Apologies, I had intended to post this response earlier, but had to go out before it was finished, so here is is now.

The main response seems to be questioning the weapons in the arm. I had an interesting sketch somewhere of how I envisioned their parts all fitted into place, but I can't find where I've put it.
In the end, I'm not too fussed about changing things like the flamer - it seldom gets used as it is. Originally, it was an exterminator (so one shot), but eventually I changed it to use the shorter range and less damaging Hand Flamer rules from the RIA.

But yeah, I can temper the weapons. A start would be to cut the number shots on the hand flamer* and reduce the range further (Perhaps to just 6 or 8 yards rather than the current 10), and now I think about it, the las-emitter should really be a Short pattern Mars.

*Or lose it completely from the profile if needs be.

Quote from: Flinty on March 02, 2010, 08:18:41 AMThe stats are explained and justifiable (although I think the Sg could be a bit lower, unless penalties for non-military related knowledge/issues are applied).

It should be borne in mind that Silva has been with Marco for 14 years (through most of his Inquisitorial training), has been fully trusted for most of those, and is regularly aids in or makes important decisions. Her knowledge extends dramatically past just the military.

Quotepersonally I dont think recovering from a serious episode of clinical depression necessarily makes anyone a tougher person

My father's severe depressive episode made him more willing to take risks than before - not the same kind of risks of course (as my father is seldom in firefights or brawls), but the idea of depression changing someone's mindset and changing what they fear or what they do is not entirely without precedent.

QuoteFor example, I dont know the rules for the 'Soul Bond', but I find that kind of thing between a couple a bit....downright feckin weird. I have never felt/developed an empathic link between myself and any partner/friend/family member (although I can tell when a mate of mine is going to fancy a trip to the pub).

It's not a mundane thing, so you would no more have experienced it in this universe than you would a telepath or a bloodletter.
For whatever reason, and no-one yet knows why (coincidence? the whim of a warp entity? Emperor's blessing? pre-determined fate?), the two just have an innate empathy for each other, and have done before they even met. It's far from being telepathy - more of a gut instinct each of them just seems to have for the other's emotion and whereabouts.

Quote from: Kasthan on March 02, 2010, 11:00:20 AMYou say she doesn't naturally float, neither do I and I'm a good strong swimmer

While some natural humans don't float all that well, most just about do. My density is a fraction lower than that of water, so I do naturally float. On the other hand, I'm not half metal - her average density is enough to make it a wonder that she can swim at all.
If I were being entirely "realistic" I probably wouldn't allow her to swim - but as the Inquisitor rulebook says, drowning isn't all that heroic a way to go.

QuoteIn addition if the drawing are correct they are not traditional 40k bionics (big and bulky), so personally I think you've placed an unneeded penalty on yourself.

Like I say, the drawings include a moderate amount of artistic licence. Physically strong women aren't drawn like you would draw a physically strong man, rippling with muscle and bulk, because most people complain about muscled women looking weird. Similarly, her bionics have been drawn to about the same kind of bulk.

Yeah, she probably should be bulkier, but you have to draw what people expect, not what's necessarily right.

QuoteDo you know how hard it is go for any distance with a 20kg rucksack (which is heavier than the SAS standard [~15kg])?

Yes, I know exactly how hard it is. I may not be a bodybuilder, but I frequently carry 20 kg rucksacks. Indeed, at times, I've travelled with two bags of pretty much much that weight - which, with me, comes to a total around 300 lbs.
I may not be able to move very fast like that, but I can move, and I can tell you that if I had to cope with that weight 24/7, I'd be one hell of a lot stronger.

Her weight was reasoned out. For a muscled person of 5' 11", 180 lbs is a reasonable guess. About a third of her body is bionic, so that leaves about 120 lbs of organic mass.
I figured that high grade armoured bionics would be perhaps three times heavier than flesh and blood, so that turns the remaining 60 lbs into about 180 lbs. Overall, about 300 lbs.

I don't think people really give enough thought to the weight of bionics.

QuoteHer unmodified S is really high, the kind of S I would give to a body building huge bloke, not a woman of a slender, toned build. T is similar, she doesn't have the organic mass to justify it.

Well, I'd personally put "body building huge blokes" in the 80s, possibly even as high as 90 if it's the right person - the top end of the scale isn't a void where no characters can possibly exist.

Her Toughness is partly due to her physical fitness and partly general augmetic repair/reinforcement - there are plates, pins and assorted other replacements throughout her body.

QuoteIf you want to make her good in CC without a weapon, why not come up with some rules for her martial arts skills, a good kick would knock someone over/break their knee.

Well, her bionic arm IS a weapon. She'd be pretty foolish to ignore that fact in her martial arts skills. Not all martial arts are necessarily unarmed.
As such, the fighting style she uses heavily centres around using the strength, durability and weight of her bionics in combat.

I have been fiddling with some rules for kicking or other "dirty moves" in combat, but they're still very much in development.

Quote from: Molotov on March 02, 2010, 12:58:58 PMGiven that they're equipped to spit acid, you'd think they would want to hide away weaponry in their bionics if they could.

Huron Blackheart (while a Chaos Marine) does indeed have a heavy flamer in his bionic arm. The idea of bionics including weapons is not without precedent.

QuoteI have to admit that it's somewhat amusing that Silva has a bionic nose, a bionic eye and a bionic ear, yet still looks young and attractive in her pictures!

Actually, you've picked up on one of the important parts of the character. While her skull and several of her senses have been repaired/enhanced to varying degrees, her partner is an Inquisitor.

In simple terms, some considerable time and resources has been spent seeking solutions that didn't destroy such an important element of appearance as the face.
I envision them more as augmetic than bionic - repairs of what was already there through concealed technologies, rather than outright replacement with metallic parts.

Quote from: Ferran on March 02, 2010, 06:42:05 AMReally, how do you expect to retain any credibility whilst posting such abominations as this?

By the fact that I've said these characters were developed by former views of mine* that I accept are flawed and outdated, and the fact that I'm looking for help in deciding how to revise them?

I could outright lie to you. I could've crudely tweaked these characters before showing them to you, then pretended that I've never used a powerful character in my life. I could tell you that my early characters like Inquisitor Lord Geirra complete with power armour and Kraken Stormbolter never happened.

However, I'm not that kind of jerk. I'm prepared to admit I've been wrong. I'll confess to making mistakes. I'll tell you there are things I've done that I wouldn't now consider acceptable.

And I accept the way with which I have criticised some characters is amongst those mistakes.

*And on this note, I should mention that I've kept the topics for these guys from the last version of the 'Clave. It's interesting seeing how characters which have scarce changed are getting rather different responses - it's not just my opinions which have changed.

QuoteAnd I gather you have another character that puts these two in the shade?

I think most people do - anyone with a Space Marine has such a character. ::)

Hmm.  while there is alot in that arm, so long as most of it is relatively small scale weaponry i'll buy it.  As with Marco, her strength and toughness seem rather high compared to the human norm, but from your comments we seem to be using the scale differently - I would say 70 is about the limit of 'normal' humans and anything higher mutants / xenos etc.  Reading the background, though, this appears to simply be a pretty tough character - I'm willing to buy that the weight of the bionics etc. explains the strength.

The standard weapon loadout (shotgun) and light armour prevents her being too overpowered - pitch her against any merc. in full carapace and that balances it.

The only part that really draws my attention is the fascimile seal, since I've come to assume that (since the imperium hasn't descended into general anarchy), some quirk of inquisitorial seals makes them impossible to copy, and that a fascimile would be easy to spot and therefore of limited use.

Quote from: Myriad on March 02, 2010, 11:58:54 PMbut from your comments we seem to be using the scale differently - I would say 70 is about the limit of 'normal' humans and anything higher mutants / xenos etc.

Well, I go by the LRB's description that the 0-100 scale represents human limits. Humans can theoretically be strength 100. No-one is likely to hit those lofty peaks, but an unaltered human, if they dedicated themselves to it, could muster S90 or thereabouts (provided of course, they weren't so short that they simply couldn't build up such muscle).

Interpretations of course differ. Mine is a pretty raw version of what it says near the front of the rulebook - a stat of 50 represents "reasonable competence", with a change of 20 points either way representing a rough doubling or halving of skill.

QuoteThe only part that really draws my attention is the fascimile seal, since I've come to assume that (since the imperium hasn't descended into general anarchy), some quirk of inquisitorial seals makes them impossible to copy, and that a fascimile would be easy to spot and therefore of limited use.

Well, facsimile is probably not quite the right word. In simple terms, Marco trusts Silva to the extent that she may use any and all of his authority on his behalf (and he will answer for any results of such), and she has a trinket of some form encoded with various engrams and codes.

Sure, someone might refuse such a seal, but it's got enough gubbins to confirm it's genuine, and anyone who did refuse it would either end up with a very stroppy Inquisitor in their face... or Silva's fist in their face.
If you're refusing 300 pounds of angry cyborg on the basis that they're not personally an Inquisitor, you're very brave, very well armed, or very stupid.

So what if she's not a limping grot armed with a slingshot? I'd be more than happy to face her on the tabletop, as her background seems plausible and justifies the character's capable stats. Hit her with a chainsword-wielding Stormtrooper, plasma grenade or a bolter-armed guardsman if you have them, Silva is not some kind of over-the-top creation. Don't be afraid of the metal woman, be scared of the heavy bolter-equipped Praetorian and his Secutor friend who has a power hammer!

Also, on the issue of the seal, Dark Heresy deals with this by introducing various forms of lesser seal, to be used by Legate Investigators and other authorised individuals. Which is nice.

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on March 03, 2010, 12:55:12 AMWell, facsimile is probably not quite the right word. In simple terms, Marco trusts Silva to the extent that she may use any and all of his authority on his behalf (and he will answer for any results of such), and she has a trinket of some form encoded with various engrams and codes.

While this was never published, the original Inquisition Background chapter of Dark Heresy actually covered this quite nicely. Essentially, there's a difference between the seal and the rosette. The former is the unique symbol of office owned by every Inquisitor, rarely revealed except at the greatest need. The latter is essentially just a symbol of the Inquisition (that doesn't preclude it being built into something that has a more practical use, obviously), often stylised to reflect a particular Inquisitor, which may be borne by an Inquisitor, worn openly when necessarily, and sometimes carried by any of his trusted servants, but which bears no significance other than showing the allegiance of the bearer.

Quote from: N01H3r3 on March 03, 2010, 03:09:30 AMEssentially, there's a difference between the seal and the rosette.

Huh. I've not really read Dark Heresy, and my Black Library readings are relatively few and far between.
I wasn't entirely sure how much of the seal/rosette dohickey was Abnett riding roughshod over the background and how much of it was really "canonical".

I'll have to apologise for not really taking that lot in completely, I should have been in bed hours ago - I'll have to leave it until tomorrow when I might actually be able to wrap my brain around such complex processes as thinking.

How I managed at the IGT when I started the gaming day after 48 straight hours awake, I will never know. Not that I was entirely coherent - I'm sure my "Timeliness" scores weren't exemplary.

Quote from: Shard on March 03, 2010, 01:06:17 AMSo what if she's not a limping grot armed with a slingshot? I'd be more than happy to face her on the tabletop, as her background seems plausible and justifies the character's capable stats.

Wooo, a vote of confidence!

...okay, I need sleep.

Okay, you have addressed the bionic implant issues a bit - I still think, that as Kaled pointed out (much more succinctly than me), it represents highly advanced tech...undecided on that one.

I see your point here -

Quotebut the idea of depression changing someone's mindset and changing what they fear or what they do is not entirely without precedent.

But, again this is a personal view, I think its the little defects and flaws that make characters believeable and interesting. At the moment she might need arm-bands when she swims, but what else? She almost died, but came out of it with some fancy bionics and facial reconstruction to keep her looking nice/normal.  :-*

Quotethe two just have an innate empathy for each other, and have done before they even met. It's far from being telepathy - more of a gut instinct each of them just seems to have for the other's emotion and whereabouts.

Awwww, come on! I think its lame, it is formulaic (of the worst pink saturated fairy stories/contrived plot devices), and why does it have to have an attached rule? They always know where the other is - is he nearby? or about 15 foot to the left, behind that wall Im just about to demolish? Is there a downside to this ability'?

The cynical could view it as another 'gaming bonus' which avoids being called a skill or a talent. I still dont get why it cant just be role played.

Or is this a cheesey reference to dire 80's comedy/action movies and Im too dim to get it?


- and just on a very fluffy note, is cosmetic surgery a big thing in the Grimdark? - she dosn't have to be pretty....it's whats on the inside (of whats left, in her case) that counts (or so I tell the missus).

I have to somewhat echo the feeling that Silva doesn't really seem to have that many downsides, any real flaws aside from being a bit heavy and finding it a bit hard to swim.

Inquisitor Necris possess an advanced bionic arm that incorporates a hand flamer in his fluff Zion reminds him that he has an explosive tank of fuel in his arm, even though she has armoured it sufficiently she warns him of overly damaging it.

I'd suspect that Necris is a bigger person than Silva and filling her arm with a multitude of weapons such as she has would significantly thin the bionic around the fuel tank to incorporate them all.

As for the las weapon if you reduced it down to a digi laser that would be better, and after all you can have a bionic an stick a digi ring on the finger.

again I'd have no problems facing off against Marco and Silva, Necris is a hard character, if he hits you with a sword you're going to feel it

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on March 03, 2010, 04:41:33 AM

Quote from: N01H3r3 on March 03, 2010, 03:09:30 AMEssentially, there's a difference between the seal and the rosette.

Huh. I've not really read Dark Heresy, and my Black Library readings are relatively few and far between.
I wasn't entirely sure how much of the seal/rosette dohickey was Abnett riding roughshod over the background and how much of it was really "canonical".

As I said, it's from unpublished background - the background chapters in the original drafts of Dark Heresy weren't used in the final book - but it's a good idea and one I've continued to use regardless.

Quote from: Molotov on March 03, 2010, 08:36:22 AM
I have to somewhat echo the feeling that Silva doesn't really seem to have that many downsides, any real flaws aside from being a bit heavy and finding it a bit hard to swim.

Does it matter? It's not as though she's an uber-character as she is. Is that an inferno pistol and force blade built into her arm? Do her bionics give her power-armoured levels of defence? Would it really be that odd to find a veteran Inquisitorial soldier is able to defeat more than just a mangy cultist with a rusty butterknife?   ;)

I hope Marco would understand that I'm not talking about stats - I'm not saying Inquisitor needs to be rock-paper-scissors. Such simplistic archetypes ("Duellist who is a weak shot, Sniper who is terrible in combat") can be a huge liability in a narrative game like Inquisitor. However, I think we are drawn to characters (and they are certainly more believable characters) because of their flaws, rather than in spite of them.

Quote from: N01H3r3 on March 03, 2010, 11:41:18 AM
As I said, it's from unpublished background - the background chapters in the original drafts of Dark Heresy weren't used in the final book - but it's a good idea and one I've continued to use regardless.

The sections you're thinking of may never have been published, but seals and rosettes and the difference between them are still mentioned in the Dark Heresy books though - in the section of the rulebook dealing with the Inquisition and again in The Inquisitors Handbook.

Quote from: Molotov on March 03, 2010, 08:36:22 AMI have to somewhat echo the feeling that Silva doesn't really seem to have that many downsides, any real flaws...

Well, is it that much to suggest that someone who's fought under all kinds of harsh, close-in situations for 20 years and survived them (even if heavily re-built) wouldn't have left any gaping holes in their combat skill set?
But she's not without weaknesses. She might be tough, but she's not got much armour - as she already weighs a lot, she can't really afford the extra weight that would be.

Quote from: Necris on March 03, 2010, 11:35:39 AMfilling her arm with a multitude of weapons such as she has would significantly thin the bionic around the fuel tank to incorporate them all.

I had considered the possibility of fuel tank rupture. But tanks of flammable gas don't suddenly burst into flame when punctured, regardless of what Hollywood seems to think. It would disable the flamer, but not make her explode in a fireball.
Also, I'd note that the same thing could happen with an actual flamer - the fuel tank can get hit. Would I be having a discussion about exploding fuel tanks if I'd given a character an actual hand-held hand flamer?

QuoteAs for the las weapon if you reduced it down to a digi laser that would be better

I don't really think so. As it is, she might have a theoretically unlimited shot count, but actually using that laspistol beyond one shot a turn does damage to her Injury total.
Anyway, it can be assumed the las-emitter has been in some way cut down in size from a full laspistol. Less frame, magazine and grip, it would be considerably less bulky.

Quote from: Flinty on March 03, 2010, 08:21:24 AMThe cynical could view it as another 'gaming bonus' which avoids being called a skill or a talent.

I divide abilities into skills and traits. Skills are mental - something they learned, or part of a characters mindset, so things like Rock Steady Aim, Feint or Fast Draw. Traits are physical - things like Regeneration, or Fearsome.

Often, the split is the same as the Abilities and Exotic Abilities (with exceptions like "Word of the Emperor"). Similarly, the distinction between the two in gameplay is usually non-existent and moot.

QuoteIs there a downside to this ability?

Yes. Not in the actual rules, but it more often causes problems than solves them.

They're partners - they're in love. As you can imagine, they'll both go to insane lengths to protect the other, even ignoring objectives to do so. That would be the case with any couple on the table - but these two automatically know if the other is in danger.
At no point can I rationalise "Silva keeps fighting to the objective, because she doesn't know Marco's gone down", because she will always know.

It may be a benefit at times - but as most of the time they'd know roughly where the other was anyway, seldom a big one - and is most often a liability to me as a gamer with objectives to achieve.
If you're thinking of it as a bonus, then remember it can/will confer information it might be "better" for me if it didn't.

Quoteand just on a very fluffy note, is cosmetic surgery a big thing in the Grimdark?

Yes. It's half of rejuvenat processes. If you're going to have people who are three hundred appear like they're in their thirties, then you have to do more than just stop them dropping dead of old age.

I am now going to exit this thread as I think Marco has pretty much addressed my nit-picking queries, especially my personal gaming bug-bear of bound souls

QuoteYes. Not in the actual rules, but it more often causes problems than solves them.

I agree that punctured fuel tanks do not explode - 'hot' bullets dont work, Ive actually tried that one. But, unsurprisingly, I didn't have access to plasma weaponry, so.....

I feel I should apologise if anything I have said has come across in any way as overtly personal  - I think Marco provides such a wealth of detail about his characters that individual preferences will throw up topics for discussion. I think this one got a bit lively in some quarters, but I hope when I get a character worked up enough to post, Im lucky enough to get half as much interest!

Edit: spelling, twice

To put it bluntly, anyone operating with the ultimate authority of the Emperor should not be in some schmaltzy, pink and fluffy wuv bunny relationship, such that, if their partner was put in danger they would disregard what they were doing and immediately head to save that person. I should hope an Inquisitor would be smart enough to ensure that person, if they did exist, never went near the front lines.

Relationships developing between staff members - fine. No issue.

Relationships between Inquisitors and other Inquisitors - plausible.

Relationships between staff and Inquisitors that cripple their ability to operate - NO!

No no no no no.

-Dos

QuoteAnyone operating with the ultimate authority of the Emperor should not be in some schmaltzy, pink and fluffy wuv bunny relationship

I don't know what kind of relationship you envision, but when one of the partners can warp the laws of physics, and the other is a hybrid of muscle and machine, it is not a "pink and fluffy" one.
They don't immediately disregard anything and everything they're doing if the other goes down - their reaction will depend on the importance of their objective(s) and the likelihood of being able to complete it/them.

Yes, Inquisitors shouldn't be in a relationship. There is however a difference between shouldn't and can't.
Humans aren't always logical beings that do exactly what's most efficient in a given situation - and I find incorporating that half the appeal of roleplay.

QuoteI should hope an Inquisitor would be smart enough to ensure that person, if they did exist, never went near the front lines.

Trying to tell an experienced and strong-willed Imperial Guard veteran "Sorry dear, I've got to go out and do something very important that may prove fatal. I want you to stay here and have no impact on the situation whatsoever" probably won't have a very good result.
Silva's more the type who'd listen to "You can come with me, but if I go down, you must keep going, the objective is far more important than I am."

Anyway, to finish with a Firefly quote: "I ain't so afraid of losing something that I ain't gonna try to have it".

Inquisitor's should be smart enough not to mess around with Daemons... If they're not going to learn from lessons on that, then why would they avoid relationships? Its not like other, famous, Inquisitors didn't have potentially vulnerable romantic partners (Eisenhorn and his Medicae lover)

Or perhaps more relevantly, Eisenhorn's attraction to Bequin who, the ludicrousness of a psyker falling in love with an untouchable aside, he hauled through all kinds of different highly dangerous situations.

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on March 04, 2010, 07:08:41 PM
Or perhaps more relevantly, Eisenhorn's attraction to Bequin who, the ludicrousness of a psyker falling in love with an untouchable aside, he hauled through all kinds of different highly dangerous situations.

To be fair, he enlisted her services as an Untouchable first, to provide protection from enemy psykers - Ravenor uses Wystan Frauka for essentially the same purpose. Eisenhorn's affection for Bequin on a personal level is at odds with his innate physiological and metaphysical reaction to her nature and presence, certainly, but that seemed to be the point of their relationship as it developed (his feelings are about who she is; his physical reaction is about what she is... two different things) - IMO, a Psyker's reaction to an Untouchable is more like that of an allergic reaction: uncontrollable and physical, rather than a matter of psychology. It will, of course, come with a psychological aspect in its own right, but for two individuals who've known each other a long time and who understand to some extent the nature of psykers and untouchables, I can't see it being an insurmountable obstacle to friendship.

Quote from: N01H3r3 on March 05, 2010, 01:09:44 AMTo be fair, he enlisted her services as an Untouchable first, to provide protection from enemy psykers

That may be the case, but in the end, he's still ends up taking someone he has feelings for into dangerous situations. I imagine more than a few Inquisitors may have employed someone for other reasons only to fall in love with them - some Inquisitors might then take these people off active duty, but not all will.

QuoteIMO, a Psyker's reaction to an Untouchable is more like that of an allergic reaction: uncontrollable and physical, rather than a matter of psychology.

I've always taken Untouchables as psychological - Someone who has never been dishonest, but who you're still suspicious of. Someone who may have always been nice to you, but who you still have to put on a concerted effort to be polite to.

You may know they're honest and pleasant people, but you just can't get your mind off the suspicions. You might even know they're untouchable - but while your conscious mind can tell you that's why you don't accept them, your subconscious just won't listen.
You might be able to be outwardly nice to them if you work at it, but it would take a lot to even argue your subconscious down to indifference rather than irrational distrust.

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on March 05, 2010, 01:47:48 AMbut it would take a lot to even argue your subconscious down to indifference rather than irrational distrust.

I imagine that, if anyone is capable of telling their subconscious mind to sit down and shut up, it's a telepath. It'd be a dangerous thing to start rooting around in the minds of others if your own isn't under control...

Quote from: N01H3r3 on March 05, 2010, 01:59:06 AMI imagine that, if anyone is capable of telling their subconscious mind to sit down and shut up, it's a telepath.

Eisenhorn describes things such as "just bundle her out of the gun-cutter and be done with her" (or words to that effect), which would imply that he can't suppress it (at least not fully) - and at that point, he already suspected she was a blank, so it wasn't like he couldn't've been telling his subconscious to behave.

There may be ways of justifying it (and I have thought about it), but the whole relationship between blank and psyker is inherently part of the "Magic" side of 40k science, and is thus really beyond trying to explain with mundane psychology.

Given that it's most often described as "Hell no", I just stick with that and treat blanks as almost universally hated, especially by psykers.
I do have a character who expressly has an even more limited perception of the warp than a normal human, and who therefore doesn't interact with blanks any differently to mundane humans - but they're hard to connect with at all as a result.

Looking at the pictures, they are at odds with the background and stats that indicate an exceptional strength. You claim artistic licence, but I don't think you can strech it that far. I hope the model of her will represent her muscularity a little better.

Stats:
Ws is appropriate if by reasonably high level you are talking almost, or a low grade, black belt (or equivalent).
Bs is higher than most guardsmen, but still lower than many. You could afford to dock it a bit as shooting isn't her main focus.
S/T are fine but the pictures are wrong, so to speak.
I would be higher, given that her mental strength is quick thinking, esspecially under pressure.
Wp is high for a guardsman, but not particularly for a serious inquisitorial agent
Sg is the stat I think is most out of place. By your own veiw of the stats, Sg 70 (as near as makes no difference) makes her twice as smart as an average joe, and an educated average joe at that. Mid to high 50's would make her stand out amongst non commisioned guardsmen.
The Nv justification sounded sound to me.
Ld seems about right for her ex-rank and for her current position of authoroty but no direct subordinates.

I agree with some that the Arm has too much going for it. They tend to be bulky to begin with, so having one that isn't huge and that still give a high strength shouldn't fit that much gear. Esspecially as the fluff suggests the weapons were added later, meaning they had to find space for them, possibly hollowing parts of it out. I'd cut the flamer, or at least the number of shots.

My other thought was that the reduced organic mass, if significant enough to warrant a rule, should also affect injury total, as she would have a lot less blood to loose etc. I'd say she counts her T as 20% less for purposes of injury total too, but doesn't count damage to bionic parts against it. E.g. her Cncs would be about 25, but damage to her right leg wouldn't increase her damage total.

Quote from: Inquisitor Cade on March 07, 2010, 04:13:17 AM
I'd say she counts her T as 20% less for purposes of injury total too, but doesn't count damage to bionic parts against it.

But that goes against the rules as they stand - what would be the justification for damage to her bionics not counting against her injury total when it does for everyone else?

If anything I'd say it would do double damage to bionics - the sheer amount of fiddly, fragile equipment you've crammed into her arm and head (She has full bionic senses, but not a single mark on her face? Tut tut tut...), every bullet would have a considerable chance of hitting something functional.

And really, does she need a laspistol and a hand flamer in that arm? One is characterful and gives her a nasty surprise attack, but two is just plain greedy.

Quote from: Inquisitor Cade on March 07, 2010, 04:13:17 AMLooking at the pictures, they are at odds with the background and stats that indicate an exceptional strength. You claim artistic licence, but I don't think you can strech it that far.

Theoretically, you can stretch artistic licence as far as you

As far as your comments on her other stats...

BS: It might not be where she focuses her primary attentions these days, but she hasn't always been possessed of the physical strength to tear people limb from limb.

I: Her quick reactions and honed reflexes show up in her skills. She might not necessarily be Spd 5, but she's capable of thinking quickly and reliably, without fear - hence Heroic, and its ability to make snap second decisions that can redeem a situation before it even goes wrong.
Her violently quick reactions come in the form of Lightning Reflexes.

Sg: So you wouldn't agree that someone who's been the partner to an Inquisitor for many years and who is the first person whose decision he'd trust would be pretty learned and intelligent?
Sure, I'd argue against giving most of Marco's entourage a high Sg, as they've not been working with the Inquisition all that long, nor will they likely ever reach the same level of trust and involvement in Marco's decisions, but I think Silva's Sg is reasonable enough under those circumstances.

QuoteEspecially as the fluff suggests the weapons were added later, meaning they had to find space for them, possibly hollowing parts of it out.

When it says "her arm" it's whichever one she has at the time. The bionic arm she has now is not the same one she started out with. It was firstly once replaced with a version that included the weapons, and given she's had the bionics for 12 years, sometimes they've just been damaged more extensively than can be easily repaired.

QuoteMy other thought was that the reduced organic mass, if significant enough to warrant a rule, should also affect injury total, as she would have a lot less blood to loose etc.

-20% was chosen as a value as it roughly represents a fraction that relates to the in-game percentages.

Essentially, probability withstanding, your version and mine would play out pretty similarly. The difference is that if the GM is required to decide which limb has been hit, there's no bias put into the decision based on whether or not it would cause Injury Total or not.
It's something that shouldn't factor in the GM's decision, and so I keep it so that it doesn't.

Not that I'm suggesting that any single GM might do that (normally when I'm asked to decide and it's not reasonably clear, I just roll a die), but if it doesn't need to be a possible problem...

Quote from: RobSkib on March 07, 2010, 10:44:05 AMShe has full bionic senses, but not a single mark on her face? Tut tut tut...

She did originally have a power linkage that ran down the side of her face, threading from up near the temple, down the back of the jaw  to down near the chin.
Unfortunately, everyone mistook it for a comm headset in the drawings (you can see an early version of it in the first drawing I linked) - until I've sorted a design I'm happy with and which doesn't get, it's been removed to stop the confusion.

~~~~~

On the note of the arm, it will be adjusted somewhat. However, given that my proflines (I like that word - a nice mix of "profiles" and "statlines") need to work for me and my gaming group before anything else, I'm no longer really planning on putting up the end results of my statline changes. I think I've picked up the measure of what the forum thinks on average, and I can work from that. I don't really need to degenerate the forum into a backwards and forwards discussion from people at differing ends of the spectrum.

One thing I will need to remember on the day is to do the D3s the "right" way. I've long done them as roll a D6, and if it's 4+, subtract 3 from the result, but I'm sure someone will complain if I do that rather than the GW suggested version.

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on March 07, 2010, 01:53:50 PM
One thing I will need to remember on the day is to do the D3s the "right" way. I've long done them as roll a D6, and if it's 4+, subtract 3 from the result, but I'm sure someone will complain if I do that rather than the GW suggested version.

Roll a D6 and half it - what's confusing? :P

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on March 07, 2010, 01:53:50 PM
On the note of the arm, it will be adjusted somewhat. However, given that my proflines (I like that word - a nice mix of "profiles" and "statlines") need to work for me and my gaming group before anything else, I'm no longer really planning on putting up the end results of my statline changes. I think I've picked up the measure of what the forum thinks on average, and I can work from that. I don't really need to degenerate the forum into a backwards and forwards discussion from people at differing ends of the spectrum.

Good scheme. I do the same sort of thing - post backgrounds and stats up so people can comment on, but don't give the final version. This way, you can get a feeling about what people would say if you turned up with her previous incarnation, tweak it slightly to keep her scary, but not to go overboard so much that the Spring Conclave will grind to a halt every time someone stops and says "Hang on, she's S 70 without her bionics?'

I look forward to seeing what you do with her model - I hope it's a bit more 40k than the (otherwise excellent) jeans 'n' t-shirt comination I've seen her toting in your pictures.

Quote from: RobSkib on March 07, 2010, 03:00:55 PMRoll a D6 and half it - what's confusing?

It's not that it's confusing, but that I'm just completely used to doing it the way I do it. I've been rolling numbers from 1 to 3 like that before I even started with GW games, so when I started, I kept it.
I'll probably make the mistake of doing it my way at least once.

QuoteThis way, you can get a feeling about what people would say if you turned up with her previous incarnation, tweak it slightly to keep her scary, but not to go overboard so much that the Spring Conclave will grind to a halt every time someone stops and says "Hang on, she's S 70 without her bionics?'

Well, I should note that I always define things like jumping distances without bionics.

If S70 really troubles people, then I suppose it can be adjusted, but I've seen it as more than just perhaps raw strength, but also being able to leverage her weight to get it behind blows or whatever she's doing.
She's the warband muscle - Marco now has S62, Jax is S60, and all the other characters lie in the S40-55 range depending on how combat oriented they are.

Actually, now I look, outside of these two, there are only a handful of stats over 60 and only two of those over 65 in the remainder of the warband*. Namely Gianna's WS (and she's trained in less-lethal hand-to-hand, and pays for it with a mediocre BS), and Alpine's Sg (and she's a Tech Adept. Don't ask why a Tech-Adept is called Alpine) - although I haven't actually penned the statlines for some of the support characters yet.
*I should note, I'm not counting Frost as part of the warband.

Marco and Silva are tough all-rounders, sure. But he's an Inquisitor with someone insisting that he keeps in practice, and she's a Guardswoman with someone regularly involving them in matters of particular importance.
Neither one of them really allows the other to be less than competent in any particular area.
I don't know how many of you will have read After Hours, but the introductory sections I post near the start cover this kind of symbiotic relationship of theirs. The two of them sparring (although, as you'd imagine, she trounces him) and other stuff like that.

The rest of the collection, although still skilled, are very much more specialised.

QuoteI look forward to seeing what you do with her model - I hope it's a bit more 40k than the (otherwise excellent) jeans 'n' t-shirt comination I've seen her toting in your pictures.

Well, as I've said, Silva is sort of half a character in my art, half a character for my Inquisitor gaming. While she keeps the same personality in both cases, I don't pretend she'll keep the same clothing on the 54mm model. (Nor does she keep breaking the 4th wall in 40k, although as her quotes suggest, she is still somewhat Genre Savvy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GenreSavvy).)

I'm working on what exactly she'll be wearing (No corsets though. She'd absolutely kill me if I did), but it will keep some of the characteristic aspects of what you see in the art - things like the asymmetrical trouser legs.

Quote from: Kaled on March 07, 2010, 09:07:12 AM

Quote from: Inquisitor Cade on March 07, 2010, 04:13:17 AM
I'd say she counts her T as 20% less for purposes of injury total too, but doesn't count damage to bionic parts against it.

But that goes against the rules as they stand - what would be the justification for damage to her bionics not counting against her injury total when it does for everyone else?

It may be overcomplecating matters, but I'd ggo so far as to say that in a perfect world it wouldn't for anyone. Unless the boinics are constructed in amalgam with actual tissue, damaging the bionics would not hurt the character. It wouldn't cause bleeding for example. Crude bionics might also be immune to system shock, if they are not connected to the characters nervous system.

Quote
So you wouldn't agree that someone who's been the partner to an Inquisitor for many years and who is the first person whose decision he'd trust would be pretty learned and intelligent?

Pretty intelligent maybe, mid to high 50's, a bit higher after a few decades of Inquisitorial service, but at the moment this guard vet could out think some Inquisitors!

Quote from: Inquisitor Cade on March 07, 2010, 05:53:10 PM
Unless the boinics are constructed in amalgam with actual tissue, damaging the bionics would not hurt the character.

Isn't the point though that bionics are linked into the character's nervous system and injury total includes both damage to the character's flesh and bionics - seperating the two would add needless complexity to the game IMHO.  I agree though if a character had a particularly crude bionic, such as the bosun's peg leg, that damaging it probably shouldn't increase injury total (but some of the injury effects could still apply, such as halving movement).

Quote(but some of the injury effects could still apply, such as halving movement).

I meant that. Hitting a Bionic arm would still have the affects such as reducing strength or Ws, stunning or loss of speed etc.

But a bionic arm could take infinite damage, be completely disintergrated, without harming the character.

Fits a piece of art from the LRB as well -  the guy with two bolt pistols, getting his bionic arm blown off by a storm of gunfire from above...

Quote from: Inquisitor Cade on March 07, 2010, 06:46:00 PM
But a bionic arm could take infinite damage, be completely disintergrated, without harming the character.

I disagree - any reasonably advanced bionics are integrated into a character's nervous system in such a way that damage to their artifical 'nerves' causes pain in the same way as if his organic nerves had been damaged.  Yes you could destroy the artifical 'bones', pistons, servos etc, but any hit is likely to hit the 'nerves' as well - thus Injury Total is increased as well as the character suffering the effects of location injury.

Yeah, so it would be possible to suffer system shock from a hit to a bionic, but I don't think it would contribute towards death.

Quote from: Inquisitor Cade on March 07, 2010, 05:53:10 PMUnless the bionics are constructed in amalgam with actual tissue, damaging the bionics would not hurt the character.

With the kind of neural interfaces and linkages involved with bionics of this level - if a bionic was going to be much use, it would have to include all kinds of different sensors giving feedback to its user.

Pain is a sense. It's not a bad thing - it provides feedback about the fact you've damaged yourself. If you're going to fit an organic creature with bionics, the simplest way to tell the user about bionic damage is in the innate way as they'd be told about organic damage.
Perhaps you can talk about overload cutouts, but I'd argue that meant immunity to system shock, not immunity to injury total.

Even without such sensors, damage to the bionic could cause other sensors to go haywire. I would say it's pretty much a given that damage to sophisticated bionics would hurt its user.

QuoteIt wouldn't cause bleeding for example.

Well, the Inquisitor rulebook is adamant that it does.
We have to assume that "bleeding" effects on the arm are either due to parts of the arm that do have the user's bloodstream running through them - or just some general other effect of equivalent in game damage. Perhaps an arcing connection that keeps sending damage pulses to the user's brain.

QuoteI don't think it would contribute towards death.

And in this case, it doesn't. If the game declares my character dead, I'll take it under advisement.
And like the character I'm quoting, I'll usually ignore it - although, fortunately, this doesn't usually result in a large explosion.

I'll almost certainly ignore it if the cause was a hit to a bionic. But it is still possible to die solely of CNS shock - death by essentially just excess pain.

QuotePretty intelligent maybe, mid to high 50's, a bit higher after a few decades of Inquisitorial service, but at the moment this guard vet could out think some Inquisitors!

To put her in just the 50-60 range would be to describe her as "an educated human". As it is, she grew up in an educated family and received a decent childhood education - and she's since been privy to the second half of Marco's acolytehood. There are few secrets and decisions Marco has/makes which Silva doesn't also have a part in.

I may knock a handful of points off it, but I can't see it descending out of the 60s.

A high sagacity doesn't seem bad if Marco's been training her in the way you describe.

Notwithstanding nerve feedback, most bionic limbs are linked directly to the nervous system and extensive damage most likely would involve internal injuries around the join, especially if it was torn off.  In the end, it makes the game easier to assume damage translates to much the same thing.

Well, Marco doesn't have a savant - some of my Inquisitors do, but I don't see it as compulsory. When he does need assistance with something, with a lack of a savant, the obvious example is the person he most connects with and trusts.

In many ways, Silva performs roles that would normally be seen as the realm of an Inquisitorial acolyte.
But don't get the wrong idea from that, Marco has no plans to start shuffling her through the ranks of the Inquisition, and quite frankly, she wouldn't much want it either.

To the best of my recollection, Eisenhorn might have had feelings for Bequin, but they didn't ever get into a relationship, nor did it ever substantially affect his judgement or his ability to get the job done.

More than that, by keeping her around just because she's a bit stubborn / unhinged / whatever, would that not necessarily countermand his authority if he does want her to be away from the front lines of things?

Thirdly, while you might plead 'it's what humans do', the sheer weight of personality, the force of will required to actually be an Inquisitor - wielding the ultimate authority, the ability to perform mass genocide on a whim and so on - would require enormous reserves of willpower and to be honest probably a sociopathic detachment from your own humanity.

But that's just my take on it. If you want an Inquisitor in a relationship, cool. It's just not for me (I say that, I mean in the context of this sort of relationship - I see nothing wrong with, for example, an Inquisitor being in a relationship with his ex / now-daemonhost / hooker / partner that he's now being manipulated by).

-Dos

Right. While I've tweaked a couple of Silva's stats, I'm not here to discuss that, but to poke at a couple of rules.

Firstly, revised rules for her bionic arm that make it less formidable.

~~~~

Left Arm:
This is a bionic with S60 and 4 points of armour. It incorporates a set of retractable fighting blades, a short-range flamethrower and a las-emitter.
All of these items can be drawn or holstered as a free action, can't be dropped, stolen nor switched between hands (i.e. they're very firmly attached to her left arm).

The fighting blades are treated as a single weapon with reach 2, Damage 2D6 and Parry Penalty 0%.

- These blades being a literal extension of Silva's body, she can wield them with exceptional finesse and dexterity. They use the parrying/counterattack rules for a buckler.
- The multiple "claw-blades" make the weapon capable of inflicting far more major injury than a single blade alone. As a result, hits from them are resolved at -1 BIV.

The flamethrower is treated as a Hand Flamer with shots 2 and reload X - reloading is a far too complex process to carry out within game.

The las-emitter is treated as a Short pattern Mars laspistol. It is designed to draw its power from its user to remove the need for power packs, and as such it has an infinite shots characteristic, but sustained fire can injure and tire the user. Each shot after the first made by the emitter in a single turn automatically adds +1 to the user's injury total.

Weapon destruction: While the mechanisms of Silva's arm are very robust, they are not indestructible - a sufficiently damaging attack may cause enough damage to render the weapons within unusable.
Silva must roll over the damage of any hit to her arm (after armour) on D10 + BIV, or one of the weapons (chosen at random) is destroyed.

~~~~~

I might still scrap the flamer completely, but it's no worse than a digi-flamer now (and given that it uses the shorter range of the Revised Armoury flamers, certainly not). The las has been changed to a short pattern las, so it's got a bit less range (and anyway, she seldom uses it over her shotgun).

The "claws"... I changed the D3 hits rule for -1 BIV. Still allows them to inflict pretty nasty wounds, but they can no longer inflict the rather nasty high strength triple critical hits like they've done once or twice, which is probably a good thing for my opponents.

The weapon destruction rules... I'm not entirely sure about them as they are.

I could speak against them by saying normally there's little chance of your laspistol getting damaged by enemy fire in game, and it feels a bit odd that it such a rule should really apply here, and that she's now being doubly penalised for a hit on her arm...

... but I could also say that if I am doing it, I don't really know about "a weapon chosen at random is destroyed". It doesn't seem right to say that every weapon should automatically be knocked out in the same hit, but also, it doesn't seem right to say that a hit should only disable one weapon.

I was playing with the idea of using something based around the "multiple hazards rule" that I wrote for the Revised Armoury, or the possibility of rolling a D6 for each weapon, and on a 4+ it's destroyed (and if they all come up 1, 2, or 3, she's got off very lucky).

~~~~~

The other thing I'm working on extending her fighting style further. I've got a few ideas for the rules that might go with a kick.

It'd probably be treated as a improvised weapon* with a longer reach, but no ability to parry. After that, the following occur to me:
*The large lump of metal she has as a right leg is quite a lot more formidable than most things that count as an improvised weapon, and she's prepared to use it as such.

- If it hits (and isn't dodged or parried), it has an effect like the Feint skill, conferring some kind of penalty to parries as the opponent is knocked off balance.
- An attack that has some kind of Knockback multiplier, with the chance of sending the opponent reeling backwards or falling prone.
- Some kind of combination of the above.

Or the last of the options I thought of was to simply treat it as a hammer that can't parry.

Any thoughts on those ideas?

The arm weapons seem quite reasonable.  The blades have quite a few rules, but I'd still rather be stabbed by them than a power weapon.


As far as damage to the weapons go, the following springs to mind;
"If the arm is damaged, roll a dice for each weapon, adding one for each level of injury caused.  On a 6 (or maybe a 7, depending on how you want to balance it - I can see the point about weapons not normally getting damaged, but you do normally drop them if the arm is hurt), the weapon system is damaged and rendered unusable."

I'd try to keep the kick relatively simple, which would favour improved knockback.  A hammer profile is probably about right.

OMG! BOOBS!










... What?

Srsly, though, she looks fine to me.

R.

Blarg. Well, as the forum's been very quiet, some food for thought about Silva's new big gun, Elise.

QuoteSilva also on occasion wields a variety of customised heavy weapons for high threat missions - these are often crew-served weapons such as heavy stubbers, autocannons and automatic grenade launchers which have been modified for use as a personal weapon, but in the absence of any specific mission parameters, she can normally be seen to default to her unique combi-bolter, Elise (named after her younger sister).

Primarily designed by Inquisitor Skoll, Elise is specifically built for Silva's use, being considerably larger and heavier than a standard human boltgun, at over a metre in length and weighing some 24 kilos, with a bullpup configuration and extended barrel (allowing an increased muzzle velocity over conventional configurations), a left-side ejection port to suit her handedness and gene-locked to only her use.
Capable of firing the full range of .75 calibre bolt rounds and accepting most standard magazine types, the weapon can be relatively easily re-stocked from Imperial Guard, Arbites or other similar Imperial armouries.

The bolter portion of the weapon is supplemented with an under-barrel grenade launcher, capable of firing high-velocity 40mm grenades from a three-round revolving magazine. While not capable of providing quite the same level of fire support as a full-sized drum or belt fed grenade launcher, it allows dug-in infantry or light vehicle targets to be effectively and rapidly engaged.

(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Artwork/WIP/SilvaBolter_crop_600.jpg)

Elise is intended only to be used in high end "climax" or "boss" scenarios - situations where she would reasonably be expecting high resistance and wants/needs something meaner than her normal shotgun.

Name	Type	Rng	Mode	Acc	Dam	Mag	Rld	Enc	Spcl
Elise Bolter	Basic	C	S/2-4/-	-	X+1	24	3	80	CR
Elise GL	Aux	B	S/-/-	-	-	3	(1)	X	Man,CR

Gene-locked: Disabling this requires an Sg test at -80. (Or -20 for Marco, as he knows the code-key)

Ammunition loadout: Dependent on mission requirements, but a standard loadout is five standard bolt magazines, a 12-round straight magazine of Kraken,  a 12-round straight magazine of Wych-bolts, 3x frag grenades, 4x krak grenades and one each of incendiary, photon flash and hellfire grenades (expect to see Hellfire grenades in the next RIA). Protracted missions may increase these numbers.

It's a mean weapon, but it's designed to be and is only really for special "climax" type scenarios.

~~~~~

Also, while I've posted it elsewhere, Silva's updated character design in this thread too:

(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy3/MarcoSkoll/Artwork/Silva2015_ex_14_1024.jpg)