My final character in Zophar's warband - i've created three distinct and very different characters in the hope it will make things interesting. However, this is quite a powerful character, but seeing as the other two are fairly averagely equipped mortals (well, Sarthuul/Zophar's mortality is debatable, but he's not a giant gribbly daemon or anything). Thus, on top of any comments/criticisms you may have of the character in isolation, i would really appreciate comments as to whether you think this makes my warband as a whole a bit overpowered.
As usual, any comments/criticisms, on story, stats or now the warband as a whole are welcomed and appreciated. If the story is too much, feel free to skip it and just comment on the stats if you want.
Severin Reed
Severin was born on the hive world Xanarius V, into a poor family in the underhive. The life he carved out for himself seemed to be following the pattern outlined by Thomas Hobbes for those unable to form a cohesive society with others – ‘solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short’. The ‘state of nature’ befitted Severin well. Severin was the biggest and youngest of four brothers, not necessarily tall, but always very solidly built. He was muscular and physically powerful, but this was undermined by his lack of mental capacity – Severin generally allowed himself to be guided by his emotions, which usually fell somewhere within the realm of ‘jealous’, ‘angry’ and ‘hateful’. For Severin, actions spoke louder than words, and no actions spoke louder than a pipe to the head. No one would smart talk him after a swift blow to the head.
At the age of seventeen, Severin was initiated into a local gang, the Razorblade Ragdolls, not from fraternity, but because he was the only person they knew strong enough to carry any heavy weaponry. The gang was the closest thing that Severin had in his entire life to ‘friends’, and even they could not be considered such in any usual sense of the word. Between gang wars, Severin generally kept to himself, and this suited his fellow gang members fine – after all, no one particularly wanted to get in Severin’s way. He was a member of the gang in order to secure a roof over his head, and a steady supply of food – with the added bonuses of being able to fight, being given weaponry and the reputation that came with being in a gang. Making friends wasn’t even on Severin’s agenda.
However, one day the food stopped coming. The Razorblade Ragdolls were running low on credits, and they were in too weak a relative position to the other gangs to try and make a raid. In a desperate attempt to get some money, the Ragdolls decided to raid a Trade Guild caravan. During the raid, Severin was clubbed over the head and rendered unconscious, and when he awoke, bound in thick chains in the shadowy corner of what looked like a caravan, he realised that the rest of his gang were either dead or had abandoned him. Severin knew that his gang wouldn’t be able to pay some form of ransom for him – they didn’t have the money, and even if they did, they didn’t care about him. Severin presumed that the guilders would kill him, something which unsettled him slightly, but caused him no major concern – he didn’t have much to live for. Such a fate would have been merciful, but mercy is not what the guilders are famed for. The guilders told Severin in no uncertain terms that he had cost them a lot of money, and that they were determined that he should make some of it back for them, and once again, Severin’s world faded to black as he was struck on the head.
When Severin awoke, he couldn’t feel his arms. He could feel a great amount of pain around the shoulders, but no arms. He tried to move his arm and felt something move. It was definitely movement, but it didn’t feel as it was supposed to. He wished he could look at his arms, but the room he was in (or at least he assumed it was a room) was pitch black. He tried for a larger movement. He heard an odd sound, like the sliding of pistons and the crunch of shifting metal. He instinctively reached up to feel his left arm with his right hand. He heard a metallic clang. Even to someone as slow as Severin, the truth began to dawn. He smashed against the walls of his cell with both arms, hearing the sound of smashing metal ring out. Life began to feel unreal as adrenaline surged – his state of affairs was beyond understanding for Severin – there was simply too much for him to take in. He couldn’t understand how his life could have become so much worse when he had just yesterday thought he had nothing left to lose.
The wall opposite to Severin began to slide to the left and light began to pour into the cell. He squinted as his eyes adjusted, but even so he could see light glimmering off metal as he tried to look at his arms. Once his eyes had adapted to the light he could finally inspect his arms. His left arm was a large metal claw attached to a movable metal support structure with wires feeding back into Severin’s shoulder. His right arm had a similar layout, but the ‘hand’ piece was a circular saw rather than a claw. Severin struggled toward the now entirely open wall of his cell, now strangely calm – numb. There was a medium sized, circular dirt pit, with high ferrocrete walls. The pit was floodlit from above, but Severin could hear people shouting, cheering, and baying for blood. He heard a voice; ‘If you wish to live, you will fight. You better get used to your new equipment, because we’re sending in a playmate’. On the opposite end of the pit, a 2 meter square of the ferrocrete began to move to one side, revealing another cell like the one in which he had awoken. Severin was sure he could see movement in the darkness, but he could not quite work out what it was. A huge muscular figure with mechanical arms similar to Severin’s charged from the darkness straight towards him.
Severin dodged to the side and held his claw in the position where he was standing a moment ago. There was a sickening crunch of bone against metal as the man’s head collided with Severin’s claw. Severin didn’t know how he had moved so fast – it was like instinct, but much stronger. He now felt adrenaline pumping through him, but much more powerfully than ever before in his life. His vision burst into a white hot seething light, and when it returned he was splattered in blood and smashing his mechanical claw into a bloody pulp on the floor with two mechanical claws splayed out from it. Severin wasn’t sure how long for, but he realised that he had lost control. He was in such a frenzy he had lost all conscious understanding of his actions. All he remembered was a white hot rage. The audience cheered and screamed, and the sound faded back into Severin’s hearing as the adrenaline wore down. That man was no longer a threat, but Severin knew he was far from safe. He saw some movement in his cell, the door of which had opened once again, and he went inside to investigate. Some scraps of food had been dropped into the cell, presumably from some form of ceiling hatch but one which was now closed. Severin pounced upon the food as his cell door closed and he was again plunged into darkness.
Severin’s life continued thus for many months, earning his guilder masters money from his pit fighting endeavours, but staying alive. Severin killed many a man, and although he had never particularly cared about murder, he began to enjoy it. When Severin’s only choice was between hours of darkness and the chance to kill, the latter began to seem more and more like something he could look forward to. It would be wrong to say that he had Stockholm Syndrome; he hated the people that had imprisoned him, but he felt he could certainly imagine worse ways to live. He knew he had become bitter, deranged and hateful, but he no longer cared. He was reduced to his animalistic instincts – he wished to eat and to kill, and any thought beyond this seemed like a distant memory.
One day, the door opened and Severin prepared himself to fight, as usual, but as he emerged into the pit he realised that he could hear no voices. No chanting, no shouting and no baying for blood. Severin didn’t even notice the collar around his neck until he began to writhe and twitch with electrical shock. It must have been fitted while he was sleeping – they must have drugged his food. That same, unmistakable voice which narrated Severin’s fights rang out through the pit; ‘Good news; we’ve finally made back what it was that you owed us. We made up the remaining amount through your sale. Your our finest specimen, and fetched a good price. You aren’t free, but your days of pit fighting are over. Meet your new master.’
A small man leaped from high onto the floor of the pit. He was graceful yet measured, and landed in a crouch. He straightened up, dusting his long, green coat off. He had the biggest sword that Severin had ever seen strapped across his back. Severin made to strike him, but again fell to the floor twitching and wriggling. The man was wearing a gas mask, so Severin couldn’t see his expression, but he somehow knew the man was smirking. ‘I like ‘em with a bit of fight’. A new door opened by the side of the pit, one Severin had never before seen, and the man lead him through.
‘You WILL follow me’ said the man, and while Severin snorted at the idea of taking commands from such a runt he realised that he felt compelled to obey. The two of them made their way through a maze of ferrocrete tunnels and eventually came out of one to what Severin dimly recognised the underhive as looking like. The man led Severin to an abandoned, dilapidated building, and once they were inside the man turned to Severin.
‘I know you’re angry, and I know you want revenge. You’re sick of being a slave. Sick of doing the handiwork of others. Sick of killing because you are told. How about you start killing, because you want to? Your situation was not just the fault of the guilders. The guilders are an important part of the maintenance of the hive cities, which are in turn important for the hive worlds, which are important to the Imperium. What has the Imperium ever done for you? It has let you live in squalor, and let its servants do this to you. I think you want revenge, and I think I can help you.’
Severin felt the small man’s words wash over him, like an ebbing tide. He felt entranced by the man’s every word, compelled to agree. He couldn’t understand it, but he wanted to be in this man’s favour. He wanted them to share goals, he wanted to work for him.
‘I’m going to now give you something your Imperium never did. Something more valuable than you’ve ever had, and in return I ask that you only do what you feel is right. I’m going to give you your freedom, and I will ask, not instruct, but ask that you help me destroy this pitiful Hive World, and punish it and the Imperium for their crimes.’ The man reached to Severin’s neck, and put a key in a lock on the side of the collar. He turned it and the lock popped open, the collar dropping to the floor. Severin didn’t know why he didn’t kill the man then and there, or why he didn’t want to, but he didn’t. It was time for Severin to go meet some guilders and see about paying off some debts...
Severin has been travelling with Zophar ever since he was freed on Xanarius V. Like ‘Wicked Willie’ Zophar keeps Severin with him out of convenience more than anything. Pit slaves are not extraordinary as personal bodyguards for the wealthy in the underhive, and Severin has proved his worth through repeated battle. Severin works for Zophar as he has no purpose in life but to try and alleviate his sense of injustice, which Sarthuul has convinced him is the fault of the Imperium. Severin despises the idea of slavery and now considers the Imperium to be one big slave driving operation with the humans all enslaved to the Emperor. Severin ironically sees himself as a freedom fighter, a defender of virtue, not killing people because he believes them at fault, but killing them to free them from the slavery they live in. Better dead than a slave – Severin learned that the hard way.
Severin Reed – Pit Fighter - EDITED
WS: 72
BS: 30
S: 84 (+2d10)
T: 81 (+2d10)
I: 48
Wp: 73
Sg: 32
Nv: 98
Ld: 20
Equipment: EDITED
Psychon (injector - 15 doeses), flak armour on the legs and groin, claw arm (counts as hydraulic claw) + 6 points of armour on left arm, circular saw arm (counts as decapitator) + 6 points of armour on right arm
Abilities: EDITED
Furious Assault - The way Severin learned to fight, he who gives up first, dies first. You attack hard and fast or you're as good as dead - the only good assault is a furious assault.
Fearsome - A big guy with a hydraulic claw on one arm and a circular saw on the other, very angry, on combat stimms charging towards you. Enough said.
Pain is nothing - Not a day has gone by since Severin's capture where he hasn't been in terrible pain at least once. It has equipped him to deal with pain, however he is hurt, its just another day.
Great story, Brimstone. I can't really comment on the stats, being new to the game and all, but the background was top.
Is there a model for him, yet? If the Zophar one is anything to go by it should be a treat.
Thank you very much for the kind words.
I have a model planned, but not yet begun- I decided the chrono gladiator model would be too obvious and leave too little room for conversion, so i'm going to use Sgt Stone as a basis and add parts of an ork deff dredd for the mechanised arms. I then intend to use bass guitar wire and other bits and pieces to give extra detail.
Once again, an nice backstory there, and continues the other recruitment threads for the group. Im not familiar with the pit fighter (what's the source of Hive Quake in Newpitt?) so could you explain the 2d10 additions to S and T?
Otherwise, the stats seem to fit well with the character description.
The 'Hive Quake In Newpitt' article can be found in Marcoskoll's signiture under the name 'FO84HiveQuakeinNewpitt.pdf' - as the FO84 name suggests, it's from Fanatic Online 84.
The +2d10 S + T are not due to the fact that he's a Pit Slave but due to the fact he has a Psychon gland. Because it's a gland, it's always in effect, so i put its effects in brackets in his profile, so that they could be factored in when other people evaluate his power level, and also so I remeber, when using him, to add the effects of psychon.
In fact, the Pit Fighter rules in FO84 only really suggest what abilities to give a pit fighter. His stats were modified from those of a chrono-gladiator, adapted to fit my own vision of what a Pit Fighter would be like, and once again, the arm weaponary was my own adition, modified from the rules for a chrono-gladiator's claws.
I don't like the fact that according to that article, all pit fighters are ambidextrous, a few maybe, but they shouldn't all be. But then I've never been a fan of that article in general...
I agree entirely, and I wouldn't have included the 'ambidexterous' special rule myself, except for the fact that Severin doesn't have an 'off hand'. He doesn't have a hand at all! A lot of what stops us being ambidexterous is co-ordinational difficulties, but it is also muscular development. If you're right-handed, your right arm and hand will generally be much more muscularly developed than your left, if you're left handed vice versa. I don't mean to say that one arm will be like Schwarzenegger while the other is left emaciated, you may not be able to see the difference, but the muscle on your 'preference' hand is much more developed than that of your 'off-hand'.
Severin has no muscles in his arms any more. No tendons, no neurones, just machinery. If, ever since the implants, he has been using both arms equally as weapons (and, other than habit, there is no reason why he shouldn't - habit becomes easier to break when your life depends upon it). If you imagine the massive change in the feeling and use of mechanical arms from regular arms (especially if theyve not even really been fashioned as arms, just metal structures with mounted weaponry), it would seem to me that once you are used to controlling machinery rather than flesh, co-ordination is little more difficult in one arm than the toher (after all, it's like learning to re-use your arms. If you re-learn to them both at the same rate, by performing the same tasks - e.g. fighting)
However, I have the feeling that my 'mechanical arms' hypothesis is not without founding. Severin is a cross between the Pit Slave and the chrono gladiator, because, like the chrono gladiator, he has two mechanical arms, and the Pit Slave profile, doesn't really mention the mechanical arms at all (which is why I don't like it either). The chrono gladiator also has ambidexterous, and i assumed that was due to haveing two mechanical arms, not just because everyone who is made into a chrono-gladiator was ambidexterous anyway. My character also has two mechanical arms, so I expected they should bestow the same effects upon he.
Once again, true grit makes sense in fluff terms anyway - Severin's life work was to fight to the death - if he didn't fight to the death in Inquisitor, it would be rather disappointing. Chrono gladiators are terrifying whereas pit slaves are fearsome. I made the decision to take the less powerful of the two abilities, because I don't think a pit slave with two mechanical arms would be as frightening as a chrono gladiator anyway. Furious assult would be the first ability I would give to a character like Severin based on the fluff anyway.
So although my abilites are in line with those of a pit slave, they are also in line with a chrono gladiator, and all have all been considered fluff-wise.
Thank you very much for your comment, and if I'm wrong on this, then please tell me so; I'm just explaining my own reasoning. I wouldn't want you to think i just tacked on a load of abilities because an article said so without thinking any of them through. I spend quite a long time developing every one of my characters, in terms of story, personality, game balance and stats - I would hope that mistakes are due to lack of experience or knowledge, rather than lack of effort.
Or you could argue that he has two 'off hands' - the interface to the mechanical arms is likely to be fairly crude and no where near as good as the sort you'd see with bionic arms fitted to members of the AdMech for instance, so the co-ordinational difficulties would be more than normal; and the mechanical arms don't offer the same degree of movement as his originals which would again likely affect his coordination...
That is a fair point. Even the chrono-gladiator's arms would be better than Severin's because chrono-gladiators are imperial constructs. I had never thought of that. However, it may be a pedant's point, and i apologise if it appears as such, i would still argue that he would be 'equally bad' with both hands, so both hands would share the same penalty etc...
Is there any way you might suggest I represent this in game terms?
As a final question, do you think this difficulty in co-ordination would remain with Severin in the long-term? Sure, at first it would be very difficult, but when you've lived, say, five years with mechanical arms, do you think you would 'get used' to using them? I'm not entirely sure myself.
I don't really know how much of handedness is due to the way the brain operates - things that won't have been changed by the replacement of his arms. And I'm sure he would get used to it, but I'm not sure to what degree. In terms of rules, a character who uses a gun in each hand regularly (and so has Gunfighter) still suffers the off-hand penalty, but he uses his arms a lot more than they do their guns...
Don't misunderstand me - I'm in no way saying he shouldn't be ambidextrous, it was more a criticism of the way that article does character generation that anything specific to this character.
I agree entirely, and I don't wish for you to think I was 'jumping down your throat' on what you said. For me, when it comes to any inquisitor character, the character is the fluff - not the stats or the model (although obviously models are good inspiration). Therefore, I try and make the stats represent how I imagine the character. The only reason I gave him ambidexterity was because of the assumption I made about the effects of mechanical arms, but i would be very happy to be wrong, if it meant i was able to better understand the character or his workings. In a way, I also wondered whether ambidexterity was more applicable to severin because the weapons ARE his hands. If you are holding two weapons, its hard to maniputlate them equally, but simply smashing your fists into something (and i suppose occasionally grabbing things with the claw) to me seemed like something one could do equally well with either hand, provoding they were equally physically strong. Still, as I say, i'd absolutely abhor giving a character a stat or ability just to make them more powerful.
I do agree on your evaluation of the article, however, I was especially not fond of the mutations table it included. Thats why I didn't bother giving Severin a mutation. Also, if they don't mention any form of bionic arms, are we to assume the pit slaves to which they refer have regular, natural arms? If so, then you are absolutely right that the ambidexterity skill is ludicrus - why would they all be ambidexterous? If, however, they do have mechanical arms, why does the article make no mention of them?
I was inspired by the pit slave models from necromunda, and more than anything, just happened upon those pit slave rules by chance. They had little, if any, bearing on the character.
Thank you very much for your comments, however, I wouldn't want you to think that I don't appreciate your input.
If you make the rule that both hands are his off hand, due to crude bionics, please call it "Ambisinister"...
[languagenerd] Wow, thanks very much, I learned a new word - I love learning new words. [/languagenerd]
I find this a genuinely difficult issue. On the one hand does it really make sense to give Severin a -20% to hit with each arm just because the arms he's using aren't his own? Okay, that sounds more reasonable than it did in my head, but my point is, he isn't HOLDING weapons. He isn't using fine motor manipulation, mastering subtle movements or anything else. I've done a decent bit of fencing in my time, and I know the problems that arise when using your off hand (my fencing club did a 'for fun' two swords competition) but I honestly can't imagine these problems arising for Severin. This is because he isn't really doing anything subtle, he had two lumps of metal for arms with sharps bits on the end, and he's just smashing his fists into the enemy. Even if they are moving, it doesnt really require any form of skill at all to just pound his fists into the enemy's general vicinity, and in cases of blocking attacks, hold his arm in front of himself to stop the blow.
I mean instinctively if i pound my fists on a wall, the only reason my right fist would do any more damage may be because it is more muscularly developed - it has nothing to do with skill etc... I just think because the weaponry for Severin IS his fists themselves, for both hands to be as bad as a guy wielding a sword in his left hand (assuming he is right handed), just seems really unlikely. Especially seeing as he made his living for a long time fighting using only these mechanial arms. It would seem to suggest to me that he shouldn't suffer a penalty to use them - for a long time his life literally depended on him using them. On the other hand, I can't imagine him particularly finding the use of one arm more or less difficult than the other, for the same reasons that I think he shouldn't have both hands as off hands, it would seem to suggest that neither of his hands should be off hands because whatever applies to one arm surely applies to the other.
Then there's the issue of whether it mostly is co-ordination that determines handedness, and even if this is so, whether this would still apply if both your arms were replaced. Because its a situation that cannot arise (as we don't have bionic arms in a 40k sense of the word) it's hard to decide. I still think i lean towards him having ambidexterity, and I feel that chronogladiators support this (but as stated, they have more advanced arms than Severin). However, I don't know whetehr my natural leanings are in some way being subconciously influenced by the fact that I like my character and want him to have a certain level of effectiveness (his I is low as it is, so he'll get relatively few attacks - if these all miss, then he becomes a rather useless character, which was the opposite of my concept of him, as a sort of monsterous figure ripping people limb from limb).
Any more comments or opinions welcomed and appreciated.
Quote from: Brother_Brimstone on March 11, 2010, 10:37:16 PM
Even if they are moving, it doesnt really require any form of skill at all to just pound his fists into the enemy's general vicinity, and in cases of blocking attacks, hold his arm in front of himself to stop the blow.
I see where you're coming from, but he's not just pounding his fists in the general vicinity of his enemy - if he was I wouldn't expect him to have such a good WS. He's up there with the best when it comes to combat which suggests a high degree of skill coupled with the ferocity that comes with having Furious Assault. If you're happy that's a fair description of his abilities, then by all means leave him as he is. - however if, as you said before, he is simply swinging his fists in the general direction of his opponent and consequently not necessarily hitting all that often, but likely killing anyone he does hit, then a WS in the 60s would seem more appropriate.
QuoteI mean instinctively if i pound my fists on a wall, the only reason my right fist would do any more damage may be because it is more muscularly developed - it has nothing to do with skill etc...
Damage caused is to do with your character's S, not his WS. S is the same whether or not the he's using his off-hand.
On the subject of damage - I don't know what arm you plan to give the model, but if it's an Ork one I was thinking that the Hydraulic Claw from the Navigators article or the Decapitators from the Simeon article (if the arm has blades), might be a better fit ruleswise than the power fist.
EDIT: Thinking about it, I'd maybe be tempted to use the decapitator rules for the circular saw so he use it to chop of limbs and stick with the hydraulic claw for the other arm. I'm not sure that a pit fighter from the underhive should be equipped with power weapons...
EDIT2: Thinking about it, the rules for Decapitators aren't in Simeon's article and I forget where they actually are so I'll summarise them here;
Reach=2 Damage=2D6 Parry Penalty=-25%
Can make a shear attack - the attack is at -25% to hit, but instead of doing normal damage the location automatically suffers D6 levels of injury. The victim's injury total is increased by the minimum amount needed to inflict this amount of damage.
Thanks for your response - what you said about the difference between WS and S is spot-on, and something I had rather seemed to be overlooking.
I think the whole 'fist-pounding' thing was perhaps a bit extreme - the point I was trying to convey was that unlike, say, a swordsman, who to strike a target EFFECTIVELY must deliver precise measured blows, while leaving his own body in the correct way to parry any oncoming attacks I imagine a character such as Severin would fight quite differently. With Sevrin, I imagine the fighting to be a lot less subtle and a lot more brutal. He fights like a savage, like a warrior, delivering blow after blow until the enemy is no longer standing. He is very capable with his own weapons but he'd probably be rubbish with a sword etc... I didn't think it required giving him a special rule for this, as he can never use a sword, he can only ever use his own weapons.
My point was, he has developed his own, highly effective fighting style, tailored to the weapons he has. Unfortunately, the weapons he has are implanted industrial machinery - something which I imagine as more of a 'hulk smash' than a 'Have at you, sir'. The high WS also accounts for the facts that the weapon isn't 'like an extension of his own body' the weapon IS his own body - a lot of how he uses his weapons will be reflexes and instincts, much more so than a man holding a sword. I feel that Severin has to be a good fighter by definition, as i've said more times than is neccessary probably - his life depended on him being THE BEST pit fighter there was.
As for the damage point i think you are right though - i think I'm going to remove the ambidexterous ability - after having considered what you said, it doesn't seem as fitting.
As far as the arms go, I once again went off chrono-gladiator rules (a process which has now been revealed to be less of a good idea than I thought it ws at the time!), which said his claws counted as powerfists - i'd never even seen the hydraulic claw or decapitator, but i much prefer the rules for those two - especially the decapitator - i wasn't really satisfied with having the circular saw as a chain fist to be honest anyway, I just couldn't think of anything that would fit better.
Thank you very much for your ongoing help - I really appreciate it. I want to make my characters the best they can be, in terms of characterisation, and your help as to how to represent these things in stat terms is invaluable.
I'm still not sure I agree and it's isn't what I'd do with the character, but he's yours not mine and I could well be wrong so go with it - use him in a few games and you'll soon know if his stats are right.
EDIT:
Quote from: Brother_Brimstone on March 12, 2010, 04:27:27 PM
The high WS also accounts for the facts that the weapon isn't 'like an extension of his own body' the weapon IS his own body
I see your arguement, but but something feels not quite right and I'm not sure I can put my finger on what it is precisely... If the above is correct then it sounds like a character who is good at both armed and unarmed combat should get a boost to his WS when fighting unarmed. I wonder if there's some confusion between things that are a function of the character's weapon and things that are a function of his skill? The difference a weapon makes to a warrior's ability to fight is covered by things like the weapon's parry penalty and reach.
Sorry it's taken me quite so long to get to commenting on this.
Personally, I'd make his psychon an injector (with a healthy number of doses), not a gland. Yeah, strictly, the rulebook doesn't say it can be used with injectors, but a character who was constantly under the effects of it wouldn't really be half as coherent as parts of your background describe him as.
I also imagine that Guilders wouldn't want their pit fighters constantly violent - it's something you'd want to turn on before a pit fight, and turn it off again afterwards. I guess it would be done by remote control (perhaps Zophar has a remote for it?)
The other reason I suggest it is that uncontrollably frenzied characters are a bit of a problem in-game. As a result, most characters with frenzy have some kind of on/off switch.
As far as his stats, I wouldn't give him quite such a high WS myself. Personally, I'd imagine a Pitfighter was more about flailing and hoping to hit/not get hit than necessarily the precise blows, and parrying/dodging skill that WS 82 suggests.
But, based on his background of persistent pit-fights and having been picked out because he was the one that survived the whole "elimination" tournament, and the generally moderate combat prowess of the other models in the warband, I'll give it to you.
One thing I do have to question is the fact that two of the models in this warband have True Grit (Sarthuul's Regeneration daemonic weapon power and Severin's straight True Grit).
One model with True Grit can make a warband tough to fight - they just don't stay down and out. Two? Well, it could make them a particular challenge at the Spring Conclave. Not that I'm arguing with your justifications (nor am I saying it just can't happen), but I generally try and find excuses against, rather than for, using the same abilities repeatedly in the same warband.
I think the point about psychon is a good one, and I shall make the ammendment (i suppose, for the sake of consistensy we could say it's an implanted injector).
The point about true grit was entirely what I wa slooking for when I requested comments about my warband as a whole - due to my lack of experience with Inquisitor, I don't have much of an idea of large an effect on gameplay these things have. While I agree on not liking to 'double up' with my skills in one party - i generally don't like it because it would indicate that the characters are too similar - and I didn't consider that to be the case this time because Zophar has a daemonic nature allowing him to stay alive longer than humanly possible (which was always in my conception of Zophar - he being so tainted by the warp that he no longer has 'mortality as we know it), whereas Severin is simply a massive guy to whom giving up isn't even an option - he's just too bloody minded. However, if you think that it would unbalance game mechanics, I can always remove rit from his profile.
Do you think I should bring in a different skill/ability to replace it, or do you think I should just leave it as is, minus the true grit ability?
Also, because of the seemingly unanimous result on Severin's WS, i've decided i'll lower it by 10, leaving him with a still impressive, but less overwhelming 72 - I want severin to be formidable in combat, but not unbeatable. Part of what motivated me to give him a high WS, beyond the obvious fluff reasons, was that in-game I wanted his performance to reflect the description of his abilities in the fluff. In the fluff I try to describe him as a fearsome killing machine - I don't think a killing machine is very scary if it's fairly regularly missing its target!
Thank you very much for your input, it's greatly appreciated.
EDIT - I also found quite a good way of dealing with the fact that I feel that Severin should have an advantage in that he only has his arm weapons in the form of the 'Weapon MAster' ability from the recongregator sourcebook. I'm going to add that to his profile, but if anyone objects, please tell me so.
Also, I never thought about it before now, but would 'deflect shot' make sense? After all, if we think something might hit us, we raise our arm reflexively. If severin does this, he will effectively be doing a 'deflect shot' action. I shan't put it in until someone says whether this would make sense or not.
Quote from: Brother_Brimstone on March 12, 2010, 11:51:53 PMI suppose, for the sake of consistency we could say it's an implanted injector.
Sure - that works fine. But that's not to say big vials of foul coloured serums don't look great on a model.
QuoteHowever, if you think that it would unbalance game mechanics, I can always remove it from his profile.
No, it's not that it's necessarily going to overpower the game. But you will need to watch out to see if it is just too much - if you think the other players are getting frustrated because they just can't keep your guys down, it will need a fix.
However, if you are looking for an alternative, one possibility is a rule I use:
Pain is Nothing - From a lifetime of injury, a damaged nervous system or whatever else the galaxy has thrown at them, the character has long since become unhealthily acclimatised to pain, and it now means little to them.
For the purposes of System Shock (both tests and SS value) and Consciousness, the character's toughness is increased by half. Additionally, the character ignores the first point of speed lost due to injury.This rule makes it harder to put the character down in the first place, but doesn't mean they keep getting back up over and over. Swapping out True Grit with Pain is Nothing might be a fix you could look at - it would also stop a Speed 3 character ending up unable to do much at all the moment he suffers a speed penalty.
QuotePart of what motivated me to give him a high WS was that in-game I wanted his performance to reflect the description of his abilities in the fluff.
At some point, you have to give way to practical concerns. Background is written according to the needs of plot, not necessarily accuracy.
I've got characters whose fluff sets them out as practically invincible in combat. They don't however get astronomical WS values, because there's a difference between what makes a good piece of fiction and what makes a good game.
The protagonist realistically dying on page 2 is not normally considered a good work of fiction. The player character beating up everyone they meet is not normally considered a good game.
QuoteI don't think a killing machine is very scary if it's fairly regularly missing its target!
It might actually be
more scary. After all, if a killing machine hits its target, then said target is probably no longer in a state where it can be scared about what happens when it does connect.
The fact that every blow doesn't connect doesn't stop it being dangerously scary and scarily dangerous.
Quote...the 'Weapon MAster' ability from the recongregator sourcebook. I'm going to add that to his profile, but if anyone objects, please tell me so.
Actually I'm going to observe that for most purposes +1 reach is actually MORE "powerful" than +10 WS. Not only does it confer the same +10% to hit and parry, but also -10% to the enemy's hit and parry attempts!
Personally, I'd make him a low Speed 4 and just keep his WS in the mid to high seventies. That would keep him one hell of a combat fighter but without having to give him an unusually high WS or multiple combat skills that don't really relate to someone who fights by the unsubtle method of bludgeoning his opponents.
... actually, given the fact that you don't actually have a Speed 5 character in the warband, you might perhaps want to go further. Maybe Severin gains +1 action dice while actually in hand-to-hand combat? That would give a feel of a frenetic, vicious combat. I might think about scrapping Furious Assault if I did that though.
I agree with Marco in that him hitting less often could make him scarier in some ways - if people know that one hit will likely put their character out of the game and it's almost certain that he will hit, then they'll probably be pretty fatalistic that their character is about to go down. If instead the player knows that one hit will take his character out, but there's a chance he'll be able to avoid the pit fighters blows for long enough to land some of his own then there's a lot more tension, the whole fight is more of a nail biting affair. It's the same with my ogryn, if he lands a blow then you're notlikely to be getting up for a good long while, but a skilled opponent has a fair chance of dancing around the ogryn for long enough to beat him.
But as I said before, try him out as he is - after a few games you'll know if you need to make changes. Most of my characters aren't right first time - there's nothing wrong with tweaking things to get them right.
I like the idea of the 'pain is nothing' rule, so i think i shall implement that. I shall take out the Weapon master skill and leave his WS as is - 72.
After that, i think I shall leave him for now, wait to play him and see what happens. That way i'll be able to gauge how powerful he actually is once he's in game.
Thanks for the ongoing help.
The background say he can't feel anything below his shoulder. Surely that means he has bionic arms, not just implant weapons.
And what heavy weapon did he used to have that nobody else could carry?
I'd say the Ws should go even lower. I'd say 70's was the realm of martial experts and he is a bit too thugish, though maybe I'm underestimating the teaching power of frequent fights to the death.
He has got bionic arms - thats why his arms have 6 armour on them. I didn't put a standard 'crude, improved etc...' rating on them ebcause they are unique. They aren't 'arms' in the sense of they look anything like arms, theyre big lumps of metal wired up to his nervous system. They are heavy and armoured (hence the high armour), but the strength improvement is factored into his overall strength.
As for the heavy weapon he could carry, if you've ever played necromunda, you will see what I mean. Each gang has a 'heavy' which is what severin was. The 'heavy' carries a heavy bolter, lascannon, autocannon or any other weapon that is just far too big for the gang leader or any of the gangers to carry. Now justifying where gangers get a hevay bolter from is a different issue, but Necromunda says they can get them from the guilders, so that's the fluff i'm working from.