I've been re-reading The Desert Spear by Peter V Brett and it's inspired me to make a character similar to the main characters.
Basically this guy is going to have a hatred for daemons and as such has carved/tattooed all kinds of wards etc. into his skin. The only things of this kind that I can find are hexagrammic wards (both of them), pentagramic wards and litanies of spite. My original idea was to have him virtually weaponless aswell, having anointed gauntlets or the wards on his hands having a similar kind of effect (I know the Swords of the Faithful denounces anointed gauntlets).
Are there any more similar things out there?
I think all this stuff (particularly concerning weaponry) isn't really fitting/feasible, but how far could I go and still keep it reasonable?
Also does anyone know where I could get a naked/virtually naked 54mm model in the UK? I want him to put all his trust in these wards, not armour. And does anyone know what the wards would look like?
Lots of questions there, hope I made at least a little sense.
James
Actually, I'd say its very feasable. A priest of the Minisitorum, driven to revenge or madness (perhaps something to do with a Xanthite?), placing his trust in the Armour of Contempt. As for anointed gauntlets, I don't really see why you wouldn't have them. They can be inlaid with silver and rowan or whatever other materials are anathema to daemons.
The wards would be writing, Imperial emblems, and geometric figures, similar to summoning circles, either tattooed straight onto the skin, or on sheets of parchement like purity seals (for some good Blanche-fu - pinned to his skin!)
For naked models, there are nude models out there for people to sculpt over...
Quote from: dumdeedum on June 25, 2010, 01:20:00 AMHexagrammic wards and litanies of spite.
...Ouch. I pity the psyker who targets that.
QuoteI know the Swords of the Faithful denounces anointed gauntlets
Anointed armoured gauntlets would seem fine to me. It denounces knuckledusters, and I'd say those weren't "sufficiently holy weapons" and most priestly types would probably refuse to have a part in anointing them.
However, I wouldn't say it was impossible. Anyway, if you don't like the way someone else has written a rule, just rewrite it yourself... that is the advantage of Inquisitor.
I know I can just use my own made up rules but my knowledge of the 40k universe isn't that great so having more knowledgeable peoples opinion on what is likely can at least point me in the direction. Also since I eventually want to use some of these characters with people on the conclave I'd like to be using rules they agree with.
So Hexagrammic Wards and Litanies of Spite inscribed on his flesh are OK. Next is which pentagrammic wards would people accept as being more realistic/fitting to 40k? The more powerful living rulebook one, or the weaker and misnamed Lectures on the Wych one? Or maybe I should write a new rule for a single type of ward he has which combines the wards slightly?
Think I will give him an anointed armoured gauntlet then, hopefully giving him some ability to hurt daemons.
Only problem now is he's virtually useless against anyone who isn't a daemon, and I'm struggling to think what I can do to him to make him keep his up close and personal anti-daemon vibe, but also make him able to handle other combat situations... Think a start would be a forcefield, but that would mean he's getting an awful lot of rare stuff. Any ideas for weapons and stuff I could give him?
Also if anyone could point me towards a naked 54mm model in the UK I would appreciate it as my only success so far has been with bronzeageminiatures which is US based.
James
Personally, I'd say hexagrammic wards by themselves are more than sufficient psychic defence, and adding anything on top of them seems a little too much. Halving Willpower before other modifiers means that even a WP90+ psyker, which is supposed to be exceptional, will be reduced to less then a 50% basic chance of casting, plus other modifiers, which with the way the psychic rules are written also means a big risk of psychic overload. Given that this means even the most powerful psykers have trouble getting past them, I'm inclined to regard them as the upper limit of psychic protection. If anything, this applies even more to the rulebook version of Pentagrammic Wards-they'll cripple any daemonic character which isn't superhuman to start with, and allow a fighting character to face daemons on favourable odds, which would generally make me favour a weaker version. Then again, the character you describe is a true specialist at killing daemons, and lacking any other protection, so perhaps that sort of potency is suitable.
As for his limitations, an obvious way to handle them would be through the other warband members-if he has a friend or two along who can handle a firefight, they'll be able to help out with the 'other combat situations', and it seems that while particularly effective against daemons or psykers, he'll still be able to thump ordinary heretics to some effect. Personally, I feel it makes for a better game if individual characters have weaknesses, espescially when, as the proposed wards would make him, they are very good in one particular area. If you do feel he needs an extra edge, I'd keep it simple-for example a generous toughness value due to his physical and mental resilience, or a very high nerve to stop him diving for cover at the first shot.
Quote from: dumdeedum on June 25, 2010, 06:21:24 PMI know I can just use my own made up rules...
That's not really what I mean. I mean - if you want an anointed armoured gauntlet, then even if the rules say "don't", take one.
It's your character, don't let something like that stop you - there's no reason why one couldn't be thus warded.
Heck, if you insisted on calling an Imperial Guard officer Captain Pugwash*, then we couldn't stop you. It's your game - don't be afraid to bend the rules a little.
*Actually, that might be awesome.QuoteSo Hexagrammic Wards and Litanies of Spite inscribed on his flesh are OK.
In theory. However, my group do find the half Wp Hexagrammic Wards too much - even psykers described as powerful, skilled individuals become impotent when faced with that. So we normally treat it as a fixed -20% penalty (and D10 forcefield). Even that is enough to make it hard for a psyker, but it's not so much to make the wearer completely invulnerable.
QuoteNext is which pentagrammic wards would people accept as being more realistic/fitting to 40k? The more powerful living rulebook one, or the weaker and misnamed Lectures on the Wych one?
It's not in Lectures of the Wych, it's in Swords of the Faithful.
Personally, I use a modified version of the Swords of the Faithful one. -10% to all stats of daemonhosts, -20% to all stats of physically manifest daemons. (Physically manifest daemons are more dependent on their warp power, as they don't have the anchor of a mortal host).
No need for tests, and still very useful.
Quotebut that would mean he's getting an awful lot of rare stuff. Any ideas for weapons and stuff I could give him?
Depends on who the character is... you haven't told us if this is a Priest, Inquisitor, or whoever.
If it's an Inquisitor, then quite a bit of rare stuff would only make sense - those in the Ordo Malleus should be expected to be well equipped.
Okay, I've just chucked together some stuff in a first draft of what he could be like.
My current idea is that he was a normal preacher until some kind of daemon centric event, probably a daemon annihilating his congregation whereupon he swears to spend the rest of his life devoting himself to eradicating daemons.
Have tried to take the advice you've given on, so now he should be fairly strong against daemons hopefully and not a whole lot of use against well armed opponents, but thats what the rest of the warband will be for. So his current situation is on the retinue of some ordo malleus inquisitor, the inquisitor wanting him because a crazy man turning his body into an anti-daemon weapon could be useful, and the priest wants to be with the inqusitor as he is quite likely to encounter daemons on his travels.
Name: Berenimius
Gender: Male
Notes: Right handed, Preacher
Statline:
WS: 70 BS: 39 S: 67 T: 64 I: 68 Wp: 71 Sg: 60 Nv: 84 Ld: 76
Equipment: Gauntlet of St. Trulean, One Vial of Tears of the Emperor
Armour: Hexagrammic Wards, Pentagrammic Wards
Abilities: Furious Assault, Word of the Emperor – Faith Overcomes All
Gauntlet of St. Trulean (Anointed Armoured Gauntlet):
Reach: 0 Damage: Unarmed +4 Parry Penalty: -30%
Daemonaic characters gain no benefits from any daemonaic attributes when struck by an Anointed weapon, although it does not confer the damage bonus for Shadow or Void-chill. A critical against a daemonaic character by an anointed weapon will cause damage one injury level greater than normal after all other modifications. (Increase damage by the minimum needed to achieve this). Finally, a character using a daemon weapon that is parried by or parries a strike from an anointed weapon must pass a strength test or drop their weapon as its purity courses through them.
Tears of the Emperor:
Type: Grenade Area: 4yds Blast: 3 Weight: 10
Daemonic characters hit by Tears of the Emperor take 2D10 damage and it counts as a psychic attack where it would be beneficial.
Hexagrammic Wards: These wards protect against psychic attack. A psyker that is targeting a character with hexagrammic wards reduces his Willpower by 20% for this Psychic test. The wards also count as D10 force field armour against psychic bolt attacks.
Pentagrammic Wards: These are a special type of psychic field, sometimes known as a Shield of Faith, which protects the wearer from daemons. Any daemonic character reduces all of their characteristics by 20% whilst within 5 yards of pentagrammic wards.
Word of the Emperor – Faith Overcomes All:
Bolstered by the sermons of Thor, the character's resolve is hardened to the perils presented by the foe. Whilst the character is reciting the litany, the character and any friend within earshot benefit from Nerves of Steel and Force of Will.
I want alot of criticism of this guy, I basically made up what he was going to be like as I went along so theres bound to be holes in logic and bits which are just wrong or boring. So please give advice on how I might improve him, both stats wise and general background wise.
Cheers
James
I really like this guy, I think its a very characterful idea and I'm a fan of creating characters that are really pigeon holed and not just great all rounders.
As far as I can see he is pretty sound, the only thing I might say is that I'd like his background to be heavy on how good he is at hand to hand fighting, but seeing as you've only roughly patched that together there's plenty of room to go crazy!
Also on the naked man model front I was perusing ebay last night and came across this
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320139747018&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_928
Which I think with a bit of fiddling could make a good crazy preacher guy. I'm going to get one anyway when I have money, though for a completely different idea.
Look forward to seeing him as a WIP
Rob
Ooooo, that model is pretty much exactly what I wanted to start with, only thing is I don't know how big it is, the description just says its between 42mm and 69mm, so does anyone know which end of that scale this guy will be at?
As for rules for this guy, I think I'm going to wait till I've made the model till I seriously write em up, mainly because for this guy I want to experiment with the modelling a bit s what weapons he ends up with, and how many different wards depends on my ability to model them and I'll go from there.
Saying that I can still write up some of his background, like his life before his transformation into daemon hunter etc. Have to think of a suitably good reason for him being so good at CC, something to do with participating in fist-fighting tournaments or some such event?
Thanks for all the advice such far, going on holiday for 2 weeks now so I have plenty of time to mull over ideas and hopefully have some worthwhile ideas by the time I get back.
James
I don't have an real idea of scale, but based on his height within lord of the rings comparative to other characters I would guess the higher end, I may buy one whilst your on holiday, so I'll get some pics up if I do :) Have a nice holiday!
Rob
I've got one or two of the LotR figures and I've found them to be a bit too tall, but if you look on this site it does say how tall each model is;
http://www.lotr-models.co.uk/new-shopping/new-shop.asp
Just got back from my holiday and I've been thinking some more about this guy.
One thing I'm not sure about though is how one becomes a priest. Do you have to be initiated at a young age? Can you take up the calling later in life? Is there anything that will stop you becoming one?
Will he also need friends in high places to get the wards? I'm not sure how exactly they work, are they certain symbols in certain orders or something different?
Think I've got an ideas for his background but I want to iron out a few things so that it becomes (hopefully) presentable and believable.
Also I just discovered that model you linked me to Shannow is 72mm which may be quite hard to justify, not sure how tall that is in feet, but I'd imagine at least 7 foot?
James
Well, a lot presumably would come from the Schola, but I know of at least one short story that features a gangster considering becoming a Priest to get out of the MAJOR trouble he's in. It may vary depending on what part of the Ministorum you want to join, as well. As for something that would stop you - a Heretic might be able to be forgiven, but he could never be a Priest.
Hmmm yeah, that would be 7.2 feet by some rough calculations which though very odd is still plausible in my opinion although I'm sure many would disagree. The reason I think its plausible is that I have 2 friends that are 6ft9 and 6ft11 and thats only between lancaster and bristol whereas this is the whole imperium. But always worth scouting for better suited models if you don't want a freak of nature :P
Rob
Ps: nice to have you back, hope holidays were good :)
Actually I may aswell say what my main idea is for this guy background-wise.
I'm thinking that he started life as a champion of some planet's bloodsport, kind of like gladiatorial combat but without weapons, often to the death. I was then thinking of combining his reason for joining for the priesthood and hating daemons into one, after a daemon manifests (or whatever daemons do) in the crowd, it kills lots of people and he runs away. He then hates himself for running and hates all of daemonkind for what it did.
Obviously it will be written up nicer, but thats the jist of what I've imagined up for him.
It might also be able to explain why he is about 7'2"
James
Ps. its good to be back aswell
Well personally I like that as a starting point for a backstory and certainly sounds like a good justification for his hugeness! Also a great starting point for his making him proper crazy if you wanted too.
One idea that I have is that as well as hunting daemons because he ran away, perhaps it is redemption for being such a bloodthirsty person in a bloodsport arena, he had not realised the horror of his profession until he saw the daemons tearing people apart and realised that what he was watching and was horrified by was in fact his job?
Just a though anyway but the basis sounds good and a great character! Have to see what others think of the 7' 2" idea though.
Rob
While that may well prove an obstacle to being an official priest, this isn't such a problem, since the ecclesiarchy tolerates a lot of unofficial religions, including religious pilgrims, penitent or otherwise, local cults, and even militant religious crusades such as the redemptionists. Therefore, he doesn't have to have been inducted into the ecclesiarchy to a man of the emperor. I also expect the recruitment practices of the ecclesiarchy itself is subject to quite a lot of local variation. The wards are trickier, since most imperial citizens are forbidden from even knowing about the existence of daemons, let alone how to fight them, but the impression I get is that faith in the emperor is in itself effective to some degree, so they could have started as almost any local symbol he genuinely believed to be either sacred or effective at driving away dark forces in general, and been supplemented later once he gained the favour of an inquisitor. After all, 40k has genuinely effective holy relics, which are considered holy purely through past contact with a saint, so it seems reasonable that a genuinely devout character could gain some benefit from any ward he believed in, whether it was 'official' or not.
I like the idea of him not having 'official' wards.
Which gives me an idea, whenever he encounters someone he considers blessed, or holy, or similar, he (tries to) get them to add to his wards carved into his skin by carving some more on. I hope that would work, the combination of them being holy and him utterly believing in them working.
Do you think this would work? And rules wise it would be a bit of a combination between the pentagrammic and hexagrammic wards I posted in my earlier charcater trial in this thread.
I feel he is getting alot closer to being realised now
Any opinions on the ridiculously big model? Or alternatives out there that I could use instead?
James
I really like the idea of him carving different wards into his skin with a knife, very crude and ritualistic. I certainly imagine him as a physically imposing man with great presence and as being bloody scary! Can't wait to see him modelled.
Rob
7'2" can certainly be justified, and from many perspectives is an opportunity for background writing about warrior tribes etc - I quite like the one you've come up with. The main issue is whether you're happy with how he'l look next to other models - he will obviously be freakishly tall, but this isn't necessarily a problem.
If you do decide to look for something a bit smaller, there's a lot out there - the modelling resources thread in 'painting and modelling' is a good place to start.
<edit> - Taban miniatures do a model that might serve, though it's a bit different to the other one.
http://shop.taban-miniatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=50&products_id=279 (http://shop.taban-miniatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=50&products_id=279)
Well my other modelling project I'm planning uses a model which is 50mm high though he has background detailing why he is too small.
Glad people like the idea, think I might buy the LOTR model and see how it works out.
One other point I've just been wondering about regards how much damage he can do. My knowledge of the game isn't great but I've just realised (unless I've missed something out) that he can only do D3 + 6 damage in an attack which is quite consistent, but I can't imagine it hurting a daemon overly much. He can do a little more damage with a critical hit, 14-18 damage plus up to the next injury level, but thats going to be pretty rare.
Any solutions to this? Or is this in fact an OK amount of damage (because it seems quite small)?
James
I think that depends on how strong the character your fighting is, but given that your never going to come up against a full daemon I think it sounds ok especially as its very consistent, though that is only against daemons who have no armour really and you will negate a lot of abilities yes?
Is that his damage capacity against all characters? Base injury levels are all probably around 6-8 for most characters (I guess) so a minimum attack of 7 is great but then that depends on how much armour they use... What strength are you going to make him btw?
Rob
I originally had him pegged with strength in the 60s so +1 damage above an armoured gauntlets standard D3 + 5, but if hes coming in at 7'2" I can up it alot more, in the 80s or possibly even 90s? which means he becomes D3 + 8 or 9 which is about sword level of damage.
Things are definitly fitting into place for him now.
James
I'd say given the size and build of the LoTR character, 80 might not be a bad shout certainly if you can work some predispostion for people on his planet to have that extra bit of muscle too