Since creating a heretek (http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=821.msg10828#msg10828) for Zophar's band i've been designing some rules for his Archeotech 'The Arm of The Omnissiah'. Ever since I read Dark Adeptus, I really wanted to use the concept of data-daemons in a character as I think they are a great idea.
I hit upon the idea of an explorator finding a piece of archeotech that perhaps due to proximity to the eye of terror, involvement in a horrific ritual or by some other dispicable means has become infested with a highly infectious data-daemon.
So i have some rules so far for The Arm and then a question, but i'll start with my rules so far;
The Arm Of The Omnissiah
This powerful piece of archeotech was originally intended to be a multi-purpose weapon - probably designed for a rich noble or powerful military leader; the user can switch between several diffferent modes of use for anything from blasting a fireball, to throwing people across rooms without even touching them and on top of this it is a powerfist in close-combat. However, in the time since the Dark Age of Technology, this archeotech has become tainted by the Warp. A data-daemon has taken over the Arm and it has become rather more....Chaotic. Now the user can no longer choose 'firing modes' - he has to point it in the right direction and hope for the best! Also, with each use, the bearer risks the data-daemon infecting hiim.
When firing the Arm Of The Omnissiah nominate a target of whom you have Line Of Sight (as with firing a gun). Then roll a D10. The result will determine which power you use on that target (and the 'powers' work as per standard archeotech rules - i.e. an Sg test instead of a WP test to cast). The table is;
1 Gaze Of Death
2 Storm Of Lightning
3 Distraction
4 Mesmerism
5 Terrify
6 Psychic Impel
7 Fireball
8 Firestorm
9 Blinding Flash
10 Vortex Of Chaos
I tried to make the effects quite varied - although I also purposefully steered clear of powers which are dependent on target's characteristics (which is why I left out choke and blood boil). For powers where you 'pick a point' the point is obviously on or as close as possible to the target character.
If The Arm is used more than once in one turn you cannot simply use the same power again - you have to roll up a new power. This represents that the Arm is not locked in any firing mode at any time - it acts on the whim of the daemon!
If Armadeus (my heretek) fails to cast a power, he doesn't make an SG test to see if the Arm breaks - he wouldn't get off that easily... If a power is failed, Armadeus must instantly pass a WP test or be Possessed - as per daemon weapons. He may make a WP test at the start of each subsequent turn to regain control (it is not a contested WP test as per daemon weapons as his WP never drops (he isn't a psyker), so either it would always be above or below the daemon's - thus I decided to make it a simple WP test).
The Arm also counts as a powerfist in close combat
Anyway, any comments or criticisms on what I've got so far are welcome. Bear in mind that although it sounds powerful, it is the only weapon he carries at all (representing that he is 'placing his faith in the Omnissiah') - which means that I will never know what will happen when I use him. Also there's the fact that every 'shot' he fires in the game faces the chance of possession if the power is failed - a fairly large risk!
Now on to my question. Armadeus is infested with a data-daemon, which he can normally control (i.e. when he isn't possessed it represents Armadeus controlling the data-daemon and when he is possessed vice versa). To represent this, I wanted to make it so that Armadeus' mechadendrites carry the risk of infecting others with the data-daemon. I was thinking that if Armadeus makes his free improvised close combat attack and it hits a character who has bionics or is in some way mechanical etc... (it's GM discretion at the end of the day, but most of the time it should be obvious), if it does damage, deducting armour, the character must take a WP test or be instantly possesed. After possesion, that character will break close combat from Armadeus and won't directly attack Armadeus (although not necessarily his warband!) - this is to represent that the daemon is a copy of the daemon which is contained within Armadeus - it wouldn't attack another form of itself, but other than this, standard posession rules apply. A WP test may be made each turn to overcome posession. Does this seem reasonable?
On top of this, however, I wanted Armadeus to be able to infect random computers and machinery he comes across, which may not be belonging to a player. For example, say there is a keypad on a door to a building - Armadeus uses his mechadendrite, uploads the data-daemon and suddenly the keypad and all connected systems are a tool of Chaos! Obviously if it is just a door keypad, it's Chaotic potential is somewhat limited ('OW! You slammed the door on my foot! That really hurt!'), but thinking larger, what if he is on a ship with access to life-support systems.... What if he's in a manufactorum with big killy-looking manufacturing machinery...
I have no idea what rules I could use for this, but it's an idea I'd really like to use, so my big question is, does anyone have any suggestions for rules I could use?
All input appreciated.
I would say that he would have to make a successfull unarmed attack against the object and then pass a Sg test, the target would be affected by the Puppet Master psychic power.
I appreciate the input, but I decided not to go for that idea as a character cannot control himself while he is controlling someone else using puppet master. The idea isn't that Armadeus is gaining control of them, but they they too have become infected with the data-daemon. Armadeus has no control over the daemon, so once it is in a new host, other than not attacking a host in which it still lives, it's going to act rather as daemons do...
The rules i'm more hoping to get input for are how to integrate the daemons into non-character machinery etc..
Thanks for the input.
All in all, it looks good - I have just a few comments/questions.
Quote from: Brother_Brimstone on July 12, 2010, 01:49:04 PM
If Armadeus (my heretek) fails to cast a power, he doesn't make an SG test to see if the Arm breaks - he wouldn't get off that easily... If a power is failed, Armadeus must instantly pass a WP test or be Possessed - as per daemon weapons. He may make a WP test at the start of each subsequent turn to regain control
To be honest, I'm not sure that being possessed is necessarily worse than having his only weapon break. Depending on his Wp, he may be so likely to resist possession that it'll be little inconvenience. Or maybe I'm just jealous that this guy will get to re-use his archeotech when he fails a test, whereas my character was forever breaking his...
QuoteThe Arm also counts as a powerfist in close combat
A powerfist is powerful - the Arm may be his only ranged weapon, but with a powerfist you could argue that he doesn't need a more reliable ranged weapon. Again, much depends on the character's stats - in this case his WS.
QuoteAfter possesion, that character will break close combat from Armadeus and won't directly attack Armadeus (although not necessarily his warband!)
I like the point about the character possibly attacking the rest of the warband. What happens if Armadeus attacks the infected character?
QuoteA WP test may be made each turn to overcome posession. Does this seem reasonable?
I wonder, should Tech-Priest characters use Sg to represent them purging their internal systems rather than using force of will to overcome possession? What if the character is warded/untouchable etc?
QuoteOn top of this, however, I wanted Armadeus to be able to infect random computers and machinery he comes across, which may not be belonging to a player.
I suggest 'The GM should control daemon-influenced machinery, which will act in a suitably chaotic and destructive fashion'.
As for the first comment - how about the amount he fails the test by is deducted from his WP for purposes of posession test?
As for the second - Armadeus isn't really much of a fighter I was planning on giving him a fairly low WS - off the top of my head 62 - he's an explorator so a little bit above 'standard human', but he's never been much of a brawler. If you still think it may be a bit OP, how about a 'scaled-down' power fist, something along the lines of 2d6+5 rather than 2d10+5? Or is that still too much?
I was planning to RP it such that Armadeus couldn't attack an infected character. He only has the one weapon and that's controlled by the daemon (the daemon may not usually have full control of Armadeus, but it has rather complete control of the weapon). For the same reason an infected character won't attack Armadeus, Armadeus cannot attack an infected character. I thought that would be more an RP thing than a solid rules thing though.
I like the idea of an SG test for tech-priests. In fact I think it should perhaps be a blanket SG test for all characters. The SG test represents the character's ability to stop the daemonic 'virus' entering their system - they don't do it through willpower, they do it through sufficient knowledge and control of technology.
I think you are probably right about just handing possessed machinery over to the GM. It's the easiest way of sorting it and means there's no need for a load of complex rules. That's my main problem with Armadeus at the moment, I'll need to see whether his rules are streamlined enough, as there are quite a lot of them. I'm hoping in practice it won't be too bad.
Thanks very much for the input, glad to hear your opinions, as you'll probably be the guinea pig for his rules! :P
Quote from: Brother_Brimstone on July 12, 2010, 06:21:47 PMIn fact I think it should perhaps be a blanket SG test for all characters.
Not necessarily sure about that.
Let's take Silva Birgen (if only because today is the 4th anniversary of her original creation). Her bionics are her left arm, right leg, left lung, and most of the left side of her face. There's also general reinforcement of her ribcage, spine and pelvis as well - although that's not really bionics in the same sense, as it's mechanically inert.
If a data-daemon gets into that system, then it's only partial possession unless it can get at the rest of her nervous system - and I'd say that needs a Wp test.
I'd suggest something a bit different. There's a Wp test to resist possession. However, until the daemon is purged from their bionics (by passing an Sg test, possibly with a penalty of sorts), they must continue to test each turn.
However, given the increased difficulty of actually clearing the daemon out in that case, I'd make it a bit harder for the daemon to actually possess the system. Perhaps on critical hits only - but possibly without a "resistance" test in that case.
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As far as the arm's rules, it sounds like some good old fashioned chaotic gameplay. Not necessarily entirely certain about the Vortex of Chaos (I've seen that ability make quite serious messes), but I guess it's rare that it will come up and has a difficulty level that makes failure pretty likely.
I'd do things like Kaled suggests - bit more penalty for failure than your initial rules, and yeah, a scaling down of damage probably wouldn't go amiss.
I quite like the arms rules, although he gets an additional test to avoid penalties when he fails. I'd make him spend d3 actions or so clearing the data-demon from his systems. The powerfist is quite powerful, but from my own experience they tend to labour under reach modifiers and don't hit that often.
As far as the data demon goes, it might be simpler just to inflict injury levels on bionics in a similar way to a toxin, with a sagacity test to clear it from the systems (assuming you have appropriate equipment of course, yer average guardsman won't know how to debug his own leg). I'd save possession risks for tech-priests / servitors. As far as infecting machinery goes, this seems good & fun, just leave it to the GM...
I very much like Marco's idea of the two tests, at the beginning of each turn an infected character makes an SG test, then, if failed, a WP test. If passed, they can stop making tests altogether. I think that does a rather good job of representing the daemon's effects.
While I can see where you are coming from, Myriad, I really wanted to keep the idea that he can possibly infect others with daemonic possession, as he is a character desinged around the idea of an infectious 'Chaotic computer virus'. The notion of him forcing other mechanised characters to test for possession was an integral part of my idea for him and i'd be rather loath to part with it, if i'm honest. Still, as I say, if when I play him, the rules are too complex I can look at streamlining them.
As for Vortex of Chaos, I know it's powerful, but only has a 1/10 chance of being picked and then it has a rather large difficulty modifier, so i thought it would be okay to keep it. I like the idea that the arm can do anything from stunning for one turn to ripping a character to shreds in a horrible gateway to the warp - in my mind the fact that it can be anywhere between the two extremes really enforces the idea of Chaos.
How about rather than a standard WP test for failed powers, he makes a test for weapon failure as per standard archeotech rules, but if it 'fails' he is overrun with data-daemons for d3 turns? That could make things a bit nastier as he doesn't get to make a resistance test, and he doesn't get to test each round - his punishment is fixed.
I hope it doesn't seem like i'm disregarding opinions too much but i'm rather set on the idea that he risks posession from use of the weapon - it's a weapon which can infect others, but can infect its user too. The idea that failure to use the weapon causes daemonic posession seems much more chaotic than the idea that it simply breaks. Anyway, i'm open to any more ideas of how I can better handle the issue of what happens when he fails his test - i'd like some way to integrate the possiblilty of posession, but without the possibility being so remote it poses little threat. While I agree that his only weapon breaking would be a huge hinderance to him, as I say, I really wanted a way to integrate the possibility of possession.
Thanks very much for everyone's input.
Quote from: Brother_Brimstone on July 13, 2010, 02:42:30 AMThe notion of him forcing other mechanised characters to test for possession was an integral part of my idea for him and i'd be rather loath to part with it, if i'm honest.
I quite like it. Of course, I can also see anyone with bionics hating it - combined with Ynek's "Sacred Barrier" tech-priestess, there seem to be a few characters who could make trouble for the galaxy's cyborgs going around the forum lately.
QuoteAs for Vortex of Chaos, I know it's powerful, but only has a 1/10 chance of being picked
Yes, it is rare, but at the same time, it can also happen when you were only looking for something milder. After all, if a psyker uses Vortex of Chaos, they meant to, and they're not just using it by accident.
But I suppose playtesting will ultimately decide whether it'll work or not.
QuoteI hope it doesn't seem like i'm disregarding opinions too much
No, I'd say it's fair enough. After all, we can assume that its daemonic possession confers some of the traits of any normal daemon weapon - near indestructibility, and the risk of possession.
I wonder, should the data-daemons have different effects depending on what bionics they infect? So an infected bionic arm may attack it's owner Evil Dead II-style, an infected bionic heart or lungs will likely incapacitate the owner, while an infected bionic brain would mean possession. Then you could have rules for the data-daemon spreading if the character fails to purge it from his system. A regular character would have to keep passing Wp tests until his bionics were purged, or the daemon might take control, whereas a Tech-Priest would have to keep passing Wp tests, and could also attempt to purge the daemon from his systems, but due to the number of bionics he possesses would be at risk of it propogating through his body.
That sounds like a really cool idea (and extra points for bringing Evil Dead II into it!), my only thought is that those rules may perhaps get a bit complicated and may take a bit too long to work out.
Also, thinking about it now - if it only effects individual bionics, that would mean you would have to land the mechadendrite attack on the exact body part with the bionic installed, which would more be an issue of luck than anything else!
I wonder whether it may be an idea to say that the attack has to simply hit a bionic part, and doing damage is irrelevant (because often bionics provide their own armour), but they have to pass a sort of test or be infected (like how a shock maul can stun even if stopped by armour). That way the fact that the daemon is less likely to infect due to having to hit a specific area is compensated for the fact that it is more likely to infect if it does hit, due to not having to inflict damage. Obviously on some AdMech characters, this means the daemon is actually more likely to infect, as most areas have bionics, but on most normal characters who are simply characters with bionics, it makes it less likely to infect, as he has to hit the specific area.
If we implemented that idea, then perhaps we could look at making a table of effects for each bionic area effected, as the daemon would be targetting individual bionics - an idea i'd like to implement.
What does everyone think of that idea? If implemented, what sort of test would it be to resist infection?
Thanks for the comments.
Quote from: Brother_Brimstone on July 13, 2010, 11:54:17 AM
my only thought is that those rules may perhaps get a bit complicated and may take a bit too long to work out.
I was hoping it could be kept to being only about as complicated as a character who's set on fire. So a chance for the infection to spread to another system (25%?) and a chance for the character to fend it off using sheer force of will / faith (based on their Wp) in the end phase. Characters with a high degree of control over the internal systems of their bionics, such as Tech-Priests, could spend actions purging the data-daemon from their bionics (based on their Sg), but everyone else would find their bionic rendered useless until they could throw off the infection (or be exorcised).
As for the effects of infection - I was thinking it could normally do D10 (or whatever) damage as the daemon burns out power relays and overloads interfaces, but the GM should feel free to give it more interesting effects - such as the character making an opposed strength test between his normal and bionic arm to fend off it's attacks (which would do more damage to offset the chance of the character successfully fending it off). If the character's bionic brain is infected, they should fall to possession and come under control of the GM (in which case, a Tech-Priest would have to pass the Wp test in the end phase before he could set about purging his other systems).
QuoteAlso, thinking about it now - if it only effects individual bionics, that would mean you would have to land the mechadendrite attack on the exact body part with the bionic installed, which would more be an issue of luck than anything else!
True, and I think this is the most difficult part of the rules to balance. If he's facing a character with just the odd bionic part he is unlikely to hit it, so the data-daemon rules would be wasted; but if he's facing a warband made up of mostly bionic Tech-Priests (and chances are he will be in his first few games!) making it too easy to infect someone could result in members of the opposing warband being rendered helpless with a single touch. But then, a Tech-Priest has more chance of getting rid of the infection which does off-set the increased risks of infection. It's a balancing act that I think will take some playtesting to get right...