The Conclave

The Ordos Majoris - Hobby, Painting and Modelling => The Dark Millennium => Topic started by: Molotov on March 11, 2011, 10:07:43 PM

Title: Daemonic Corpses
Post by: Molotov on March 11, 2011, 10:07:43 PM
I'm afraid I might already know the answer to this one, but I wanted to get your opinions.

The new Grey Knight sprues have a Grey Knight brandishing the head of a Daemonette. Clearly it's just been decapitated, and the models are "in the spur of the moment." However, based on the head of the navigator (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2641/3725845507_0c01a20cc4.jpg) from Monkey Island, I was considering a character who could use the decapitated head of a Daemonette as almost a guide. Is there any way to justify the head remaining in the material plane without being bound into a host? Could there be any sort of enchantment or spell to allow that to be the case?
Title: Re: Daemonic Corpses
Post by: MarcoSkoll on March 11, 2011, 11:41:45 PM
Could there be any sort of enchantment or spell to allow that to be the case?
Of course. There are long passages in the writings of the sorcerer-philosopher Xanil Metrusca that relate to the partial binding of the true daemonic form to the material plane.
However, these are the most foul of magicks, condemned by all but the most corrupt of the Inquisition, for it is said that the wounds of the rent daemon never truly seal, their exposed veins a conductor by which the energies of the warp can flow free.

A psyker might be able to use such energies to boost their talents, but it will doubtless have a price - even amongst the relatively psychically inert, the presence of such energies can only taint one's essence and damn you to the darkest pits of eternity.

... which is all just a load of whatsit I made up, but it sounds feasible enough to me.
Either way, there is actual precedent for pieces of the daemonic form remaining corporeal - Quixos had pieces of daemon claws embedded in his heart.
Title: Re: Daemonic Corpses
Post by: DapperAnarchist on March 12, 2011, 12:33:29 AM
It could be bound to something, like something elses head - which open the possibilities of cutting up bits of human and daemon and stitching them together...

Though, as Marco mentioned, it should be pretty evil and dangerous to use...
Title: Re: Daemonic Corpses
Post by: Ynek on March 12, 2011, 07:42:01 PM
The way I always interpreted it was that a Daemon only allowed it's body to disintegrate after death if it had no further use for it, and was willing to let it disintegrate.

So, if a Space Marine put a psycannon bolt through it's face a dozen times, effectively banishing the daemon back to the warp, it would probably let that body decay, since investing energy into keeping it corporeal would be pointless.

However, if it had a shard of it's claw lodged in the heart of a high-ranking Imperial Servant (such as an Inquisitor or Space Marine Captain), then it might choose to invest the energies necessary to maintain and keep those elements of it's physical form corporeal, as a conduit through which to corrupt the unfortunate victim's soul.

Basically, I always imagined Daemons as being an intangible, incorporeal essence similar to the Christian definition. They have no bodies of their own or corporeal existence in the real universe, because they are metaphysical beings. What we 'see' as their body is little more than a puppet made from warp energies made into an imitation of matter. In the presence of powerful warp energy sources (warp storms, special relics/rituals, etc.) The daemon can manifest such a body for itself, since the energies required to do so are abundant in the air. The daemon, therefore, is not killed when the body is destroyed, in much the same way that a puppet master is not harmed when his puppet is stabbed, beaten, drowned, burned, or otherwise damaged. However, specialist weapons such as psycannons and force weapons can actually hurt the daemon hiding behind the puppeteer's veil. (I always imagined this as being akin to jabbing at the puppet with a wire plugged into the national grid. The electricity runs up the puppet's strings and gives the puppeteer a nasty shock.)

So, essentially, the daemon's body only exists as long as the daemon wants it to, perhaps with a few restrictions beyond human comprehension. So, shards in the heart of an Inquisitor might last decades (assuming the daemon has the power to keep them there), but a corpse lying on the ground might last seconds.

This opens up some interesting ideas for characters... Such as a Quixos-styled character who has a shard of a daemon stuck inside him with no hope of removing it, but he clings on to the hope that if he can just understand daemons a little more, he might be able to track down the daemon who did this to him and vanquish it completely, thus removing the shard from his body. Alternatively, if he understands things a bit better, he might be able to find a way of removing the fragments (perhaps he seeks the assistance of a powerful pariah to cut the shard's links to the warp, from whence it's existence stems). All in all, his studies into daemons only expediate and accelerate his descent into depraved daemonic dementia and chaotic corruption.

*shrugs* I suppose it's a bit of a grey area, but that's how I understood it.
Title: Re: Daemonic Corpses
Post by: precinctomega on March 12, 2011, 07:59:21 PM
As to the bigger part of the question - the "guide" relic - I don't know.

But remember that there are two ways for a daemon to enter the material plain: by bleeding through from the Warp into a corporeal form made from aethyric ectoplasm, or by possessing a psychically-receptive mortal vessel.  In the latter case, the mortal vessel will be gradually (or, in some cases, rapidly and catastrophically) twisted to better suit the needs of the daemon.  Eventually, to a casual examination, the exterior appearance of a daemon of either sort would be indistinguishable.

So if a daemon of the latter sort were to be decapitated, its daemonic appearance would remain in the material realm.  Of course, it would eventually decay like all flesh.  However, if trapped in a stasis field, perhaps it might sustain a link to the daemon that once warped it that could be used as a sort of aethyric "tap" for an enlightened user.

Of course, this would be a bit like a tap clumsily attached to the front of a hydroelectric dam.  Wiggle it at the wrong moment and...

R.