So I was wondering about the proposed monodominant sourcebook, and thought that this board would be the best place to get this particular bit of it off the ground. I am specifically talking about the factions into which the monodominant faction as a whole is divided. I have been thinking about this, and have come up with a few, which I will put below. Comments, critiques and opinions are welcome, as are other people's faction ideas. I don't have names for any of the factions, and am trying to establish what the aims of the faction as a whole are to start off with.
So, the factions:
The first is what most percieve monodominism to be. It is simply that no deviance from the norm is to be allowed, and the psyker, the mutant and the abhuman must be purged so that their taint cannot be spread. Concerned with keeping humanity on their version of the straight and narrow, they will brook no leniency, and if a hundred innocents must die that a heretic be destroyed, then so be it. This is basically one of the most radical puritan viewpoints that monodominants possess. It does, however, conviniently ignore navigators and astropaths....
This faction would probably be mostly Ordo Hereticus, and as it is the default viewpoint of the imperium, I imagine a few of the more public figures might be hailed as heroes.
The second faction has similar aims to the first, in that they wish to keep humanity from falling into depraved deviancy, but they do not believe that ordinary citizens should suffer for the sins of the tainted (most of which comprise of simply existing). To this end, they are very discerning about their targets, and aim to do as little colatteral damage to the surroundings as possible. Making use of surgical strikes, they are much less likely to use assets such as arco-flaggelants, or eversor assassins. Other assassins, however, would be of great use to them, as assassins tend, by their very nature, to make clean kills with little collateral damage, meaning that a significant portion of this faction could belong to the Ordo Sicarius.
The third faction I have thought of so far verges (or has jumped heartily over the line) on heresy. They believe that whilst it is humanity's right to rule the stars, humanity's inevitable shift toward a more psychic race should not be denied, and that this is in fact part of His plan. They believe that they can usher humanity into a new golden age through the study and understanding of psykers. Also, they take the view that the mass killing of psykers is a ridiculous way of acting, and given that humanity is becoming more psychic, this course of action will only eventually succeed in wiping humaity off the face of the galaxy. The increasing incidence of psykers reinforces their conviction in their views, and they are more inclined to study psykers than kill them.
Again, a large portion of this faction is likely to be Ordo Hereticus due to the access to psykers, though some may be Xenos, studying the eldar in an effort to understand the implications of a more psychically active humanity.
Quote from: Draco Ferox on February 22, 2012, 09:57:08 PM
This is basically one of the most radical puritan viewpoints that monodominants possess. ... it is the default viewpoint of the imperium
Do you really mean 'radical'? It seems to me it's a mainstream belief and not radical at all really - pretty extreme maybe...
Sorry for any confusion caused. I meant radical in the sense that just as the word radical can represent an extremist and/or not widely accepted view, it can also mean going to almost any lengths to achieve one's aims, without steppign outside the bounds laid down by the organisation one serves. I think I might have misused the word radical here, however, as not only had I forgotten that in this game, a radical is one who uses forbidden means, I have just realised that if something is the default, it is unlikely to be classified as radical or extreme.
I was trying to get across the sense that on the scale of grey shades that is the inquisition, those who use daemonweapons are placed firmly at one end of the spectrum and called heretics and worse, and that these individuals to which I am referring are at the complete opposite end of said spectrum.
Yeah i could get behind Draco's usage of that term. I actually quite like the sound of these groups. All three sound like fun and interesting war bands.
I got the term radical puritan from the excellent DarkReign40k random inquisitor generator by Shardifier and KrakowSam. It's the most hard-line (that's the word I was searching for!) of puritan inquisitors.
These factions are all very interesting. Recently I tried doing something along the same lines but inspiration mostly failed to hit me. I only made up a single faction.
The Purists
This faction basically is an even more extreme form of monodominism. Its adherends belief that any deviancy from what they consider to be the norm should be purged. Not merely those who openly defy the Emperor but also the most minor criminals, all abhumans, who they consider to be just normal mutants who are wrongly tolerated, and in the most extreme cases even people who are in any way different from the norm in their behaviour, such as addicts and those who worship the Emperor in a way which is not broadly sanctioned.
One thing that could be interesting is a 'radical' (in the Inquisition daemon-weapon/xenos creatures etc. meaning) branch of monodominants. Basically they have the belief that mankind should rule the galaxy but don't believe that this means exterminating everything else but in slaving it. In essence the demonstrate the power of man by subjugating those they come across- I can see daemonhosts being particularly popular here as they show that man is so powerful that he can even bind the creatures of the warp to their will (or so they think).
I understand what you meant by the term, the reason I brought it up is that 'radical' already has a meaning in the context of Inquisitorial beliefs and using it in another sense can be unnecessarily confusing when there are other words that will work just as well. But it's a good illustration that the radical / puritan divide is not at all clear cut.
Alright, so I've been doing some more thinking, and I have come up with names for some of the factions.
The first one I suggested I thinks should be called "true" monodominants, as just as there are "true" Amalathians, which are what people think of when the word Amalathian is mentioned, true monodominants are the first archetype which springs to mind when monodominism is mentioned.
The faction suggested by Herald I would term subjugationists, though it's not a very imaginative name and if anyone else has any ideas, please come forward.
For the third faction I suggested, I am looking for a word which conveys the idea of moving forwards (progressionists?) whilst not sounding like a radical faction, yet also not sounding like a Recongregator faction.
Dolkinian already has a name for the "extreme" faction, the purists. I would definitely keep this name, as it is reminiscent of what they think of themselves.
The second faction I suggested is where I have really hit a mental wall. I cannot for the life of me come up with a word to describe the idea of the superiority of humanity, but also of being precise and surgical in their methods and operations.
As a final note, I would imagine that Herald's faction would be spread across all of the ordos fairly evenly, and Dolkinian's would have a not insignificant part of their membership in the Ordo Sicarius to remove those inquisitors whom they deem to be impure (would their be some sort of screening before entry to the faction is permitted?)
Quote from: Draco Ferox on February 24, 2012, 12:52:09 PM
The second faction I suggested is where I have really hit a mental wall. I cannot for the life of me come up with a word to describe the idea of the superiority of humanity, but also of being precise and surgical in their methods and operations.
Maybe the faction could be named after the person who proposed it (as with the Xanthites), or after a significant place in its history (as with the Amalathians)?
I don't think that there are any requirements for factions, it is after all about a set of beliefs nothing more.
At least one sub-faction must be named the Annihilists, as that's what the Monodominants seem to have been named early in the development - it's what's on John Blanche's notes.
There could also be a faction that beliefs that fear is the way to prevent heresy. It is not relevant if all who are caught are innocent. As long as the population beliefs that they were guilty and that the guilty are dealt with in a horrible manner they will never dare to go against the Emperor's commands.
Quote from: Dolnikan on February 24, 2012, 05:09:00 PM
I don't think that there are any requirements for factions, it is after all about a set of beliefs nothing more.
If these beliefs are about how a small group of individuals are more worthy of life than the rest of humanity, then I assume that they will not just let anyone join their little club. And the requirements for a faction are set by those in it. An inquisitor can hold the same beliefs, but not be a part of that faction. I believe that it is explicitly stated in one of the other sourcebooks- I think it's the Recongregator one- that groups of inquisitors can exist who are entirely ignorant that their beliefs are held more widely than their little group.
I just think that when people with unlimited power start to judge others as being unworthy of life, they will have certain standards as to who can or cannot be saved, and they will check everyone carefully to ensure that they aren't just joining them to ensure their safety while actually practicing another belief.
Dapper, Anihilists sounds like the standard monodominant view. It could also be used to describe inquisitors who are not content with merely destroying the xenos and daemon, but utterly erasing any trace of them from the cosmos, such as usig exterminator on maiden worlds and having tomb worlds blown apart by large amounts of explosives which would be placed by penal legionnaires. Who would of course still be on the planet when it blew up, but c'est la vie for a sinner in the 41st millenium...
PS- do I use ellipses at the end of my posts too much? If so please PM me and I will try to stop. (...)
I think I missed that then, I was under the impression that factions are just something inquisitors can be divided into. Many would hold a set of beliefs, without ever even having met anyone with the same set of beliefs. For instance, xanthites are a name given to inquisitors who belief that the weapons of the enemy can be turned against them. It would not be necessary for any individual to have joined any kind of club to hold those beliefs and be called one.
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I think I missed that then, I was under the impression that factions are just something inquisitors can be divided into. Many would hold a set of beliefs, without ever even having met anyone with the same set of beliefs. For instance, xanthites are a name given to inquisitors who belief that the weapons of the enemy can be turned against them. It would not be necessary for any individual to have joined any kind of club to hold those beliefs and be called one.
That is my view as well, but I view the so-called "purists" as a sort of clique within the inquisition who do not admit members until they have had their purity proven beyond doubt. The name would show thier belief, but like the Masons of today, even if you believe the same things as they do, you will not necessarily be a part of the organisation, and will probably have to undergo some sort of rite before your induction into the ranks.
That seems like a good idea for a kind of 'club'. The tests would have to be very rigourous to prevent heretics from entering. They are everywhere after all.
It sounds to me like the Purists are more like a cell or cabal who share one belief than a faction in their own right. Maybe use the name 'Annihilists' for the name of the extremist Monodominant faction, and Purists for a particular grouping of Inquisitors who share that belief and who have formed their own cell/club/clique. Just a thought...
'Excisionist' might work for that second faction, Draco as excision is a surgical term for the removal of (among other things) a tumour. Though shortening it to 'Excisist' sounds better to me.
While a touch off-topic, I'd love to see the monodominant sourcebook written as a series of in-character commentaries on Inquisitor Goldo's original treatise. Rather than a single faction history, you'd instead get the personal views and recollections of various monodominants - demonstrating how varied and shades-of-grey even the most seemingly black-and-white of factions can be. One writer might be describing the sub-factions put forward in the OP, only for another author to denounce them all as imposters and heretics in the very next article. And from the player side of things, you get to see some varied interpretations of the faction that are coming up here.
Back to the i-c, I'm sure that there's more than one Xanthite who thinks that Goldo was right in all but methodology and could contribute too. And probably several Istvaanians who'd say they do just to stir things up.
I think excisionist quite a ring to it, and I prefer excisionist to exisist. To me, exisist sounds like someone who goes round kicking out ghosts/bad machine spirits. I would prefer a sourcebook which was not made up entirely of oopinion articles, though including quite a few wouldn't hurt, and would help to tie the book to the shades-of-grey of the inquisition, as Kaled said.
Opinioned pieces are always a good thing. Excisionist has a nice ring, annihilist would be a good name for purist, because that sounds a bit too simple in my mind. Some 'actual' quotes from Goldo would add a nice touch as well I think.
Well, I have just had a flick through the sourcebook looking for inquisitor Goldo, and found that the authored the first treaty on monodominism. I'd like to incorporate this, so rather than having the "true" monodominants, I'd like to go with Kaled's suggestion, and name them the Goldoians. Anahilists, purists and excisionists seem to make up a good names for their respective proposed factions.
As for the faction that uses fear, I'm not sure whether this is technically correct (conjugate the verb!), but Timorians sounds like it might fit, as I gogle translated fear into latin to make up for having never learned latin in school, or been bothered to learn it outside.
I reckon that maybe Goldo's original treaty could have been copied out by his acoloytes and contacts within the inquisition, but parts of it been either changed/lost/mistranslated, which along with the ambiguity associated with human interpretation, would have led to the factions seen today.
The central tenets of the monodominant faction could be summed up thus:
1. It is the right of humanity to rule the galaxy, and this is the will of He-on-Terra.
2. It is the foremost duty of the inquisition of carry out the will of He-on-Terra.
3. Humanity must rule the galaxy alone.
4. Any who will not yield to the divine right of humanity must be destroyed.
5. No opposition to His will may be tolerated. Failure to comply means death.
If you feel I am missing anything, and/or would have any other tenets to add, please do so.
The tenets are good; simplistic and very definite, just like the monodominant stereotype.
I especially like the way rule 1's use of 'right' instead of 'destiny' which seems to be the common line.
My impression is that the Monodominants' intolerance stems from the pessimistic conviction that humanity will only rise to rule the galaxy if absolutely everything else dies.
So myself, I'd change 4. to read something like "Every mutant, heretic and alien is an obstacle to the rule of Humanity." (leaving out mention of daemons as I like how the tenets as you've written them could be widely published by the faction, as appropriate to so overt a group)
And thank you for spelling tenet correctly - it shouldn't bug me so much when people write 'tenant', but it does. You've made an inveterate pedant's evening.
These tenets sound like the monodominants. I would keep them as they are because mention of specifiec enemies could vary between groups and publications. That could add some nice ambiguity in the most black-and-white faction.
Quote from: krenshar on February 28, 2012, 10:54:59 PMSo myself, I'd change 4.
No, I think I agree with Draco's verson. As it is, any of 3, 4 or 5 can be interpreted in that pessimistic, hardline fashion.
3) If you decide that mutants or psykers don't count as human, they have no right to rule the galaxy.
4) If you assume the "divine right of humanity" to be unmutated, psychically-neutral and completely brainwashed by the Imperial cult, anyone who can't conform to that, willingly or unwillingly, is forfeit.
5) Just call anyone you don't like "an obstacle to His will".
However, the way he's written it allows a wider interpretation of Monodominants, which is exactly what the Sourcebooks try to do - break the moulds and the stereotypes of "Faction X must be like this".
As it is, Monodominants get relatively little play time because most players (understandably) don't find the "Shoot first, don't bother with the questions" mindset particularly fun to play for more than a short while. If we can widen the faction slightly (and as it's had since the 33rd millennium to do so, it will have widened), we might stop seeing "He's an Amalathian" quite so often.
Marco has hit the nail on the head with regards to my intentions. I deliberately kept the wording vague because nothing is more fun than a load of people disagreeing over the same thing (case in point, the bible), and just as the treatise of Mount Amalath was subject to various interpretations, so too should be the founding principles of the monodominant faction. I deliberately wrote "yield to humanity" because of the faction known as the subjugationists that we were discussing.
Krenshar, I try to ensure that I always spell my words correctly, as well as constructing my sentences well. I am not a fan of 1337 speak, and use it rarely, and in a mocking and sarcastic manner if I do. This is strangely pedantic for a sixteen year old, but the amount of people my age who cannot spell words properly, or use words such as there, their and they're interchangeably really annoys me.
Anyway, onto the main content of this post. About an hour ago at the time of posting, I was walking home, and I was writing on my ipod. I wrote what I consider to be a decent short essay, though opinions on that may vary, and I wanted to share it for criticism and review. It ably sums up my doubts about the monodominant faction, and I consider it my most poignant work to date. It is transcribed below, with the only modifiactions being spelling corrections.
QuoteOn the nature of Monodominism
Almost every citizen of the imperium subscribes to the view that humanity is the strongest species in the galaxy and that it is their right to rule it. Most of this is propoganda, spread by the Imperium to keep the massed ignorant and obedient, but equally to spare them from the horror of the uncaring universe. Even those who dismiss the first point still believe the second. A human that would like to peacefully co-exist with an alien is rare indeed, and the nature of most of the species in the galaxy prevents this coexistence (orks fighting for the heck of it, dark eldar having to kill to survive, tau belief that all must work toward the greater good, necrons hate all living things, tyrannids try to eat everything, and the forces of chaos attempt to subject the entire galaxy to their insane whims), so it is little wonder than the imperium is so xenophobic. To this end, most, if not all, of the inquisition are simply monodominants in some form or other. They may not agree with each other's methods, but ultimately, they all support the power of the imperium. For example, Istvaanians are monodominants who believe that conflict strengthens humanity, Recongregators are monodominants who believe that restructuring the imperium will lead it to new glories, Xanthites are monodominants who use the weapons of the enemy against them, Thorians are monodominants who try to resurrect the Emperor, so that He can make the imperium strong again, and Amalathians are monodominants who believe that the imperium is stronger if it does not change unless necessary. In this way, all but a few highly unusual (and heretical) inquisitors are monodominants in some form or another. They may denounce each other and have different ideas, methodologies and principles, but they are united by the overarching belief that humanity can and should rule the galaxy. This has been drilled into them from the time that they were children, and though the reality is different to the propaganda of the Ecclisiarchy and Munitorum, they still retain their childhood certainties in the divine right of humanity to rule the galaxy in His name, and that this is His will.
It looks very good, except for the propoganda. It is a logical conclusion which leads inevitably to a single question. If it is not this core set of beliefs that marks out a monodominant, what is it? Perhaps monodominant are those who use the extreme and public methods some of them are famed for? Perhaps they are those who do not see lesser evils, merely evils which all must be destroyed?
I hope that my spelling does is not overly bad, english is my third language after all.
Well, you're doing better than me. I speak no languages besides english to any sort of standard, and from your writing, you wouldn't know it wasn't your first language. Hell, I know a fair few adults who can't spell as well as you.
I am not sure what a monodominant is, but I believe that one would be marked out by intolerance of anyone not "normal", their use of more extreme methods in their investigations, and generally upholding the generaly view of the majority of the Imperium. I quite like the idea of an inquisitor who actually believes the propaganda until he is violently disabused by his first contact with any form of xenos.
Many aliens in the background do meet expectations. They are quite unfriendly after all...
I think that the defining trait of monodominants is their intollerance and moral strength. They refuse to use anything that is tainted, even if it would be easier for them. A monodominant for instance would rather fight unarmed than take up a tainted weapon, even if it is a simple metal bar that was used by the unclean.
I disagree, I believe their defining traits are their belief in the superiority of mankind and their intolerance of everyone else. However, I can imagine a hard-line Monodominant who believes that since mankind is manifestly destined to be the dominant force in the universe and will only achieve that by wiping out all other species, it is their right to subjugate the denizens of the warp and use them as weapons if that will help them to bring about mankind's destiny sooner. And I'm sure there are Monodominants whose methods would cause some observers to label them as Recongregators or Istvaanians too...
But that's the great thing about Inquisitorial philosophies - there's so much room for disagreement and conflict.
The problem with that is that it means that almost all inquisitors are monodominants, and that the philosophies they adhere are merely subfactions of the monodominants. To avoid this something needs to be chosen to make a monodominant something different from the other factions, otherwise it no longer is an actual faction of the inquisition.
Monodominants are different. They believe that it is the right of mankind to rule the galaxy in the Emperor's name, and they plan to achieve this by destroying forever the Emperor's enemies. Xanthites believe that Chaos cannot be defeated, but its power can be harnessed in service of mankind.
That leaves plenty of areas in between. So you could have a Monodominant who believes that is the right of mankind to rule the galaxy in the Emperor's name and the best way to do this is by harnessing Chaos and using it to destroy mankind's enemies including, in the end, the powers of Chaos themselves. Or you could have a Xanthite who believes that the power of Chaos can be harnessed in service of mankind - and his plan for that power is to use it to wipe out the enemies of humanity (except Chaos itself as it is merely a reflection of humanity).
Monodomination, in my eyes, is more than simply being intolerant of heresy in all it's guises - it's about believing that the way to ensure that mankind achieves it's destiny is by wiping out everyone else. All* Inquisitors are intolerant of heresy, but not all agree on what constitutes heresy, and some see themselves as being above committing heresy. Likewise all* Inquisitors seek to destroy the enemies of the Imperium, and thus share some beliefs with the Monodominants, but that in no way means that their beliefs are sub-sets of the Monodominant beliefs.
* When I say 'all', I of course accept that there are exceptions - but rooting out heresy and defending the Imperium is an Inquisitor's job after all.
EDIT: Another thing I'd suggest is that the tenets that Draco proposed be the work of Jeriminus rather than Goldo. Goldo concluded that that the only way the Emperor's loyal servants would survive in the galaxy was if everything else was destroyed. The tenets seem to fit more with Jeriminus taking Goldo's conclusion, turning it into a 'mission statement' for Monodomination - they'd be one of the things that helped bring Monodominance to prominence within the Inquisition.
Jeriminian would also make for a good faction name. Perhaps in place of Goldoian, as the three vowels together sound a little awkward to me.
Having Jeriminus be the person that listed the central tenets is a good idea, it also makes the faction a little less based on the works of only a single inquisitor but more something developed by evolving in a group.
The belief that everything else should be wiped out is an idea which would be very popular amongst monodominants, to the point of being what ties them together. Some may even realize that it is an unachievable ideal, but even those would still be monodominants, their aim would be to go as far in destroying all enemies as is possible.
So, I'm way behind on the times on this thread, but what the heck.
Geneti-Just
I think their could be a Mono-dominant group that is obsessed with the idea of purity in bloodlines, and finding ways to purge the taint of mutation/weakness etc right out of the genetic strain of humanity. This could be done either by selective breeding, manipulation, or some other way. Essentially, they hate deviancy from what is pure, but what these fanatics consider pure goes to to the micro-biological level.
These Mono-dominants would have strong ties with Magos Biologis and Sisters Hospitalers. However, I can see them being unaligned Inquisitors.
Just a thought.
Such a group could easily exist, basically a more extreme version of the being against mutation idea. They would have a lot of trouble with defining exactly what is acceptable, probably leading to lots of infighting.
Quote from: Easy E on April 10, 2012, 08:44:08 PM
These Mono-dominants would have strong ties with Magos Biologis and Sisters Hospitalers.
Or Sisters Famulous - they're the ones who have excellent knowledge of Imperial blood lines...