The Conclave

The Golden Throne => Community News and Announcements => Topic started by: Koval on September 28, 2013, 10:35:23 PM

Title: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: Koval on September 28, 2013, 10:35:23 PM
As I mentioned earlier today during the dénouement for the Eramus Affair, I'd like to at least help to run a Spring Conclave towards the back end of April or beginning of May (tentative date: 26th April, which avoids Easter weekend, but at this stage, this is obviously just a suggestion).

And I'd like to run it at 28mm dual scale.


Why 28mm dual scale?

I had a big old list of reasons earlier in Bugman's, but I forgot most of them! Here are the few that I remember:

1) It's something different
2) It presents an opportunity to get those creative juices flowing, and especially with how long we have between now and next spring, there's plenty of time to think about what to do and how to do it
3) IMO, there's just a bigger selection of 28mm models out there :P
4) I'd like to foster some closer relations between the Conclave and Ammobunker communities, as when all's said and done, both communities play Inquisitor
5) The Lethal Joke Reason: I've got some Glade Riders that I tried to convert into Dark Riders for a WFB Dark Elf army; that, sadly, never got off the ground (as I'm not really into WFB). However, for some reason they made me think about Eldar Exodites, which I'm fairly sure I can convert... so I already have Exodites as the beginning of a theme!

If there's something else you guys would prefer to see, of course, then by all means tell me, and similarly if someone else wants to run a Spring Conclave or other event then that's also fine.

In any event, I'm just putting this out there for general discussion.





EDIT: Copied from Page 5 and Ammobunker.

I'm currently aiming to hold a Dual Scale Event on April 26th (the last Saturday in April). I've not yet approached WHW, but I will do so in a couple of weeks.

And I had some thoughts on the matter.

Firstly, logistics.

As I see no present obstacles to holding it on April 26th, I'll approach GW with that date a bit nearer the time. I'll also be working out times in due course; I'm aiming for 90 minute time slots, giving us 10 for changeover/setting up, and 80 for an actual game. This may be subject to further change.




I'd like some volunteers to help out with GM duties on the day -- and if you'd like to use this as an opportunity to run a scenario of your own devising, let me know and we can work it in. I've planned sixteen scenarios, of which nine are integral to the event and I'd definitely like to see a tenth happen. So there are six potential openings if someone wants to run their own scenario, but I'd primarily like GMs willing to GM one of the main scenarios :P

On such a note, some of the scenarios can be run with Player GMs, but some can't, so I'd like some Dedicated GMs in the mix as well.

I don't foresee there being "scoring", but I'll probably produce some "assets" (in card form or otherwise) for those who win a particular scenario -- these may give them extra wargear, a NPC operative, or even an impediment depending on the scenario and how I feel at the time. ;D




Notes on the setting!

The event will be set in the Abraxis Sector:
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2hx4msi.jpg)

Located in central Ultima Segmentum and rimward of the Dalthus Sector, Abraxis is mostly frontier space, with a considerable number of worlds that have yet to be reclaimed or rediscovered by the Imperium. By and large, the sector's Imperial presence is concentrated within Sub-Sectors Abraxis and Zorya; Kauket, Achlys and Nyx remain outside of Imperial control, and Charun is subject to an Inquisitorial blockade following the investigation into the Arch Worlds phenomenon.

Koroneia, the planet on which the event will take place, is located in Sub-Sector Kauket, close to the Abraxis-Zorya boundary line (on the map, it's roughly between the final "s" in Sub-Sector Abraxis and the "H" in Howling Stars).

What will this mean for people wanting to use certain characters?

Characters from Dalthus will have absolutely no problem making the journey to Koroneia by way of either Loidis or the Borderworlds.

Characters from Carthax may have a slightly harder time, primarily because I'd like us not to bring the Arch Worlds into this (besides which, there's a blockade in the way). Having said that, if you want to use Carthaxian characters, you most definitely can, as the objective is to play games. Maybe they have an Abraxian counterpart?

Brand-new Abraxian characters, or Abraxian analogues of existing characters, are also encouraged at either scale. :)




On scale:

Obviously the intention is for this event to be a dual-scale affair. I'm aware that some people have a distinct preference for One Scale Only -- and that's fine as long as everyone can play nice with each other.

To that end, if you want to bring 28mm Only, that's fine.
If you want to bring 54mm Only, that's fine.
If you want to bring two different groups of characters -- one at 54mm, one at 28mm -- then that's great (bonus points if the two groups know each other!)
If, as I know Keravin and Kaled do, you have the same main character at both scales, with different sets of henchmen and operatives at different scales, then that's brilliant. And if anyone actually does that, then I will buy them the drink of their choice from Bugman's.
(http://i34.tinypic.com/2n8zkuh.jpg)




If you'd like to come along, please let me know, and tell me whether you'll be 28mm Only, 54mm Only, Dual Scale - Two Groups, or Dual Scale - One Group. :)





We currently have expressions of interest, or potential interest, from:

Dual Scale
Myself (can GM both)
Keravin (one group)
MarcoSkoll (can GM)
Gav (work permitting)
Cortez (can GM)

54mm
Heroka Vendile (can GM both)
Kaled

28mm
Chilli Fueled Heretic (expressed by email)
Neil101 (expressed by private message)
Irisado (expressed on 40KOnline)

As Yet Unconfirmed Scale Preference
Shannow?
Molotov?
Holiad?
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- 28mm Event
Post by: greenstuff_gav on September 28, 2013, 10:51:05 PM
i got a unit of 7! (http://buildyourimagination.co.uk/minis/gallery/exodites/exodite_rider_paint.jpg) as well as Two/url] seperate [url=http://buildyourimagination.co.uk/minis/conclavewinter12/crew02.jpg (http://buildyourimagination.co.uk/minis/conclavewinter12/crew.jpg)crews[/url]!

more coherent post after a sleep but i've no issue playing 28mm; i just prefer 54!
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- 28mm Event
Post by: Kaled on September 29, 2013, 11:32:23 AM
Personally, I'm against the idea of a 28mm event - for purely selfish reasons. I've put a lot of time, money and effort into building my collection of 54mm characters and Conclave events are the only place I get to use them - so the prospect of a Conclave event where I can't use them is unappealing to say the least.

Much of what I enjoy about Inquisitor is wrapped up in the characters I've built and the emotional involvement I have with them. The game itself is pretty bad but despite the rather rubbish rules I really enjoy playing - mostly because I enjoy seeing my characters' stories brought to life through their interactions with other people's characters and the communal storytelling with the other players. I don't have that same emotional connection with my 28mm models* - which means that when I play at 28mm, Inquisitor is just a pretty crap game - it still has the enjoyable interactions with other players but it leaves me cold when it comes to the characters.

I know that other people have the same emotional attachment to their 28mm models as I do to my 54mm ones and I certainly have no objection to people playing at that scale (even in the same event), but the reasons given so far for having a28mm event don't come close to outweighing the downside of not being able to use the characters I've invested so much in.



* I've been thinking about why I think of my Inq28 models as just models, not characters and I wonder if it's a kind of 'uncanny valley' effect in that 28mm Kaled looks a lot like the 54mm versions but there's just something not quite right about him. Maybe if I built a different warband I'd feel differently, but GW's 28mm range just doesn't excite me anymore and I don't see me returning to it in the near future...
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- 28mm Event
Post by: Koval on September 29, 2013, 12:03:23 PM
Quote from: Kaled on September 29, 2013, 11:32:23 AM
* I've been thinking about why I think of my Inq28 models as just models, not characters and I wonder if it's a kind of 'uncanny valley' effect in that 28mm Kaled looks a lot like the 54mm versions but there's just something not quite right about him. Maybe if I built a different warband I'd feel differently, but GW's 28mm range just doesn't excite me anymore and I don't see me returning to it in the near future...
IMO, the scale of the models shouldn't affect one's ability to have fun at an event, but I can see where you're coming from even if I don't share those particular sentiments.

I should point out that given the wide array of stuff on the tables at the Eramus Affair, there's also no point in ruling out models from other manufacturers, or indeed hybrid models with some GW and some non-GW parts. :P

With regard to a different warband -- I suppose this relies on me having correctly understood the "maybe", but the worst that can happen is that you try it and don't like it (but then, at least you can say "I've tried it"). At least if you give it a go with a different (or completely new) set of characters, you'll know whether it's an issue with 28mm in general, or whether it's just caused by Uncanny Valley Kaled.

We've got a while to go 'til spring, in any case, so there's plenty of time to give it some more thought. :)
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- 28mm Event
Post by: Kaled on September 29, 2013, 12:22:18 PM
Maybe I could build another warband at 28mm, but the prospect of making more Inq28 models* doesn't excite me - I have plenty of other projects queued up that I find far more interesting right now. I guess I still don't understand the reasons for wanting to do 28mm only, and if I'm honest I do resent the fact that it means I couldn't use the existing models that I have and like.

I guess I feel strongly enough about it that I'll propose a 54mm 'event' for anyone who doesn't want to play at 28mm and who otherwise wouldn't turn up - even if it was just 2-3 of us playing 54mm I'd still like the chance to get some games in and still have the chance to socialise with everyone over lunch and in the bar afterwards.



* To be fair, I'm not excited about making more Inq54 models at the moment either, but I do have 90+ to choose from already and I can always find a warband that I'm excited to use.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- 28mm Event
Post by: Shannow on September 29, 2013, 12:32:17 PM
I think a large part of my attraction to 54mm is the extra degree of effort I feel I have to make in order to have a model which fits the 40k universe with the right character and presence.

Though I am not opposed to 28mm per se I do, like Kaled, feel less of an emotional attachment to them perhaps mainly because even the best models out there are always in my mind 'taken' from a 40k army and inqisitorfied as opposed to being entirely custom for inquisitor. Only my own opinion and I do not wish to lessen 28mm for it players in any way I might add.

I like your suggestion of a 54mm event in tandem Dave and though not confident enough to run a full event as successfully and as well as yourself, Marco or Gav have done I wouldn't mind running one or two tables so that yourself and others can focus more on enjoying playing 54mm. Especially run in a player gm style with pre written scenarios etc.

R
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- 28mm Event
Post by: Kaled on September 29, 2013, 12:40:21 PM
Quote from: Shannow on September 29, 2013, 12:32:17 PM
Especially run in a player gm style with pre written scenarios etc.
I'm making the assumption that most people would play 28mm so it would just be a handful of of 54mm players, which would mean we could get together beforehand and come up with a set of story focused scenarios tailored to our warbands to advance their stories in an interesting way rather than playing generic scenarios that need to be able to cope with whatever warbands turn up on the day.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Koval on September 29, 2013, 12:42:54 PM
Kaled, I greatly appreciate your honesty, but permit me the same for a brief moment -- the counter-event you propose is somewhat disheartening, as that forces the kind of split in the community that I would have preferred to avoid, and means the 54 vs 28 debate* ends up rearing its ugly head.

As a compromise, what about a single dual-scale event, instead of either proposal? That way, we'd both get to have fun and demonstrate that Inquisitor is Inquisitor is Inquisitor, irrespective of scale -- basically, something in the same vein as the Twin Arches, but revised and refined.


*For what it's worth... the 54 vs 28 debate is, in my opinion, pointless, as both are valid, and it's still Inquisitor at the end of the day.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- 28mm Event
Post by: Kaled on September 29, 2013, 01:16:00 PM
As I said I'm happy for people to mix 28mm and 54mm at the same event - people should be free to play whichever they prefer - and if you can get a dual-scale event to work then that'd be great.

I wasn't the only person to object when you brought up the idea of a 28mm only event (although I appreciate that we were a small minority) - I just want to make sure we get chance to play at 54mm.

Regardless of scale, it is all Inquisitor at the end of the day - but most people have chosen to invest their time and effort in one scale or the other, so unfortunately there is a split in the Inquisitor community when it comes to scale. It'd be nice if both sides could meet in the middle in a mutual appreciation of the game, but telling all the 54mm players they should give 28mm a try seems likely to deepen that split in much the same way that years of telling 28mm players they should give 54mm a try did.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Koval on September 29, 2013, 01:34:47 PM
Quote from: Kaled on September 29, 2013, 01:16:00 PM
and if you can get a dual-scale event to work then that'd be great.
I've already got ideas bubbling away, and yes, they do involve Exodites -- and possibly the Elannor's Pride table at WHW, but A) it's early days B) it's far from essential...
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Kaled on September 29, 2013, 01:52:40 PM
I have two Exodites at 54mm...
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Koval on September 29, 2013, 03:41:43 PM
Updated OP to reflect current dual scale intentions.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- 28mm Event
Post by: MarcoSkoll on September 29, 2013, 04:11:07 PM
To respond to the original thoughts about 28mm only, it's an idea I'm wary about.

Now, I'm on the side who have grown to strongly enjoy 28mm Inquisitor*. There have been some positive modelling experiences for me - Lynx Vanden is actually right up there as one of my favourites of all the models I've ever done.
And while I've not got many 28mm games planted in my all-time favourites, I don't put that down to the models I'm using - the 28mm community and events are relatively young, after all; I've played considerably fewer games at 28mm.

But despite my personal willingness, it clearly has the potential for animosity all over it, and I'm a little uncertain that it'd draw in Ammobunker - I have a feeling there are some people who think we're intruding when we go to their events.

*Really, the only thing I think I'd actually say against 28mm any more is visibility.
Although it's becoming strongly visible on the internet, to a passer by in the WHW event hall 28mm Inquisitor will mostly blend into the background of all the WH40K and WHFB games going on; whereas yesterday's 54mm games, at least when aided by giant vehicles, definitely did have more than a few people notice.

Not that I imagine the visibility of Inquisitor is all that important, there's little of the game left to try and promote, but it's still nice to achieve.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Koval on September 29, 2013, 04:20:04 PM
QuoteI'm a little uncertain that it'd draw in Ammobunker
We can do a hell of a lot worse than try, though.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Kaled on September 29, 2013, 06:13:26 PM
Quote from: Koval on September 29, 2013, 04:20:04 PM
QuoteI'm a little uncertain that it'd draw in Ammobunker
We can do a hell of a lot worse than try, though.
I'm curious - has anyone on the Ammobunker expressed any interest in a joint event or in joining a 28mm Conclave event? I don't spend much time there anymore, but from what I remember there was never much in the way of interest whenever the suggestion was brought up...
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Koval on September 29, 2013, 06:31:38 PM
There was some interest around the time of the Twin Arches, but then people had to drop out of that for various reasons.

Still, it can't hurt to extend some feelers -- I'll do that properly once I've gone past the "I want to run an event" phase.

Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: MarcoSkoll on September 29, 2013, 06:38:38 PM
The Twin Arches had a bit of attention, and Keravin did join us, although he did later say he hadn't felt entirely welcome.

Unfortunately, I was dealt a hard hand to play when we had to try to find the compromises on which scales games would be at and we only had one 28mm dominant player amongst six, so I'm not surprised he felt like the stick had a short end.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Kaled on September 29, 2013, 06:59:18 PM
I wonder if it might be better to start, by building a stronger 28mm community here and show how players of both scales can work together to do something fun and interesting. More of a 'if you build it they will come' approach rather than trying to appeal to the Ammobunker folks directly...

(I've no clue as to how that might be done, but thought I'd throw it out there in case someone else has an idea.)
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Koval on September 29, 2013, 07:16:58 PM
Nonetheless, I will at the very least bring it to their attention.

Molotov and I are actually emailing each other about it at the moment, although it's just general event-design stuff and Things To Watch Out For at the moment.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: greenstuff_gav on September 29, 2013, 07:33:23 PM
wasn't the Autumn COnclave the third even in which 28mm has been welcomed, and yet noone activley came forward?
this time AB didn't organise their even the weekend before...

EDIT: for the record i was willing to print out a whole second copy of myevent and even made *all* the objectives and NPCs in 28mm ready so there could be a second event running side by side... if anyone had come
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Koval on September 29, 2013, 08:03:23 PM
Let's not worry too much about it now. I've still got to get my ideas together first!
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: MarcoSkoll on September 30, 2013, 01:44:01 AM
Quote from: Kaled on September 29, 2013, 06:59:18 PMI wonder if it might be better to start, by building a stronger 28mm community here
My own wondering relates to the difficulty of expanding the 28mm community here if one of the responses to a suggestion of a 28mm event is "Well, I'll run a 54mm one on the same day".

I can understand the motivations (and, even to a certain degree, the logic), but I feel attempts to expand the 28mm side of Conclave gaming will be undermined by that kind of thing. It changes the question of "do I go to a 28mm event?" into "Do I go to a 28mm event or a 54mm event?" - that's not likely to improve 28mm turnout.

To me, dual scale events (and the increased community unity they could potentially bring) are preferable in the long run, but evidence is that events are struggling to actually be dual scale. It doesn't take many people to have their mind firmly (or at least strongly) made up one way or the other before others just go along with it out of simplicity.

If everyone just stays in their comfort zones, growth is a bit of an impossibility.
To use that quote that has variously been attributed to just about every historical intellectual, their mother and their dog: "Insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results".
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Kaled on September 30, 2013, 07:37:19 AM
I see what you're saying, but I was thinking that we should look to build and expand a 28mm community alongside the 54mm community by people showcasing their models and characters, playing games and posting photos and battle reports and so on. Attempting to create a community by telling 54mm players that they have to convert or miss out on gaming at the next event seems like the wrong way to go.

That said, I was one of only two or three people who objected to the idea of a 28mm only event when it was proposed in Bugman's. I do worry that everyone else does want to try playing at 28mm and I'm just confusing things by offering an alternative so I think I'll be quiet for a while to give space for other people to speak up - I do feel like I've been hogging the conversation and it would be nice to hear other people's opinions.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Molotov on September 30, 2013, 09:41:14 AM
QuoteI'm curious - has anyone on the Ammobunker expressed any interest in a joint event or in joining a 28mm Conclave event?

Quotewasn't the Autumn COnclave the third even in which 28mm has been welcomed, and yet noone activley came forward?
this time AB didn't organise their even the weekend before...

I always find it tricky to post in these sorts of threads - but then again, they're the sorts of thread that I always seem to end up posting in...

I have no problem with Inq54 modelling or gaming, and indeed I have 54mm models of my own that are half-completed. Equally, I have no problem with INQ54 (or dual-scale) events. I haven't had many pleasant experiences with 54mm players, however. The Conclave is an arrogant and elitist institution - or has a reputation as seeming so. Historically, it has done nothing but fleer and scorn INQ28 and Inquisimunda when it could have set up subforums to host the nascent community. And my worry, Kaled, is that your suggestions are a bit "too little, too late."

This is a situation where the Conclave's owner wrote an article for Fanatic condemning the use of 40k models in Inquisitor. Where posters on this site have criticised the practice of playing the game. Suddenly Inquisitor appears close to death, whilst INQ28 is resurgent,and the Conclave seems to rush and accept it - but there are still plenty of comments that showed people were contemptuous.

When I tried to help Kaled unite both scales, Conclavers outright refused to move Carthax - posters threw their toys out of the pram. Another attempt dashed. Keravin attended a Conclave event and found it to be an event where he wasn't welcomed particularly. Another attempt failed.

With Dalthus, we have created a cohesive and integrated narrative that has been one of the highlights of my gaming life. There has been this insidious insinuation that INQ28 is somehow "lesser", that it "needs" the Conclave, but that's not true. When you get seven people for a "grand" tournament, and we get twenty for an off-the-cuff event, there's something clearly off. The Conclave gets many new posters, and many yellow welcomes, but it doesn't ever manage to retain those posters. Why? On average, the Ammobunker forum gets more posts in a day than the Conclave does in a week. Why? 

I have huge respect for Kaled, who has always struck me as a fair and decent individual. I feel Marco has worked hard to battle peoples' preconceptions of him. But there is, I think, a lot of distrust towards the Conclave - or to Conclavers.

In an ideal world, united events would be the norm. But to suggest that it is all on the INQ28 community's truculence or refusal to cooperate is naive or dangerous. Mainly because it assumes yet again that we have to do things the Conclave's way. That the Conclave is superior. What would it do if people on the Conclave admitted they have a bad reputation? Or made changes to alter the way they were viewed by others?

+++++

On a personal level, I don't find anything wrong with Kaled's suggestion that he play INQ54 on the same day as others play INQ28. I personally only get a handful of days each year for playing games. As a result, I want to ensure my games are fun and memorable. I can entirely empathise with his point of view. The Conclave has historically run games with scoring, rather than games for the fun of it - why not allow players to come and have no-strings attached fun?
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Necris on September 30, 2013, 09:54:22 AM
If I'm brutally honest I can't see Conclave and Ammobunker ever doing a joint event.

The conclave has evolved a certain way of playing that doesn't appeal to Ammobunker players it would seem, I've been to 28mm events around the country and have never felt welcome the last one I went to ended up in me trying to shoe horn my way into games because the other gamers had a "narrative" going and they just couldn't see how my characters would fit into the game. For an event I had to pay to play at getting one game in the 6houts of play was very disheartening. I actually ended up buying some warmachine stuff and sticking it a painting it instead of playing games.

I was left feeling like the conclave weirdo who plays 54mm

I like the conclave events I can turn up and be guaranteed games, I don't have to jump through half a dozen hoops to be allowed to attend don't have to have games pre arranged into a set schedule of play, I can play against who ever I want, my characters have a some narrative with other players for example Necris, Kaled and Goddard have some history of playing against one another.


I also have to admit that I'm in a similar camp to Kaled I feel more connection with the 54mm inquisitor minis I own, I invested more time in creating them bulked out their backgrounds and characters where as my 28mm inquisitor minis were a made as a means to an end  the local inquisitor players to me played at 28mm so to get games in I needed 28mm I didn't invest as much time in the development of each character instead focussing on a theme for the warband, I actually when making my 28mm saw them as units for a 40k army not individual characters in a warband.

But honestly now GW hold very little interest for me anymore I am uninspired by the new releases, unimpressed with the game current editions and just meh about the company as a whole, there are far better companies and games out there in my mind than what GW has to offer anymore.

Sorry I think I've waffled a little here
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: greenstuff_gav on September 30, 2013, 10:01:07 AM
Quote from: Molotov on September 30, 2013, 09:41:14 AM
an arrogant and elitist institution - or has a reputation as seeming so.
which is, ironically, all i take away from any inq28 thread and alot of your posts (including that one)
don't know if we've met in person but it's odd; while some posters come across as harsh online, i can't think of a single person i've physically met that i'd not happily play a game with; shows how easy it is to misunderstand people through these little digits!

however, we've all seen these circular "he said she said" arguments on 28/54 despite it's the same game and rather than devolve into another pointless argument where nothing actually gets achieved, can i get a catch up:

Koval wants to run a Conclave28 to encourage a community here (by having an inq28 only event) to encourage "our" inq28 and ammobunkers' inq28 playing side-by-side (as once AB see 'clavers playing 28 we can get over our arrogant, elitist reputation and have shared events) ?

i'd love 28/54 playing side -by-side .. "those guys must be very far away (http://buildyourimagination.co.uk/minis/conclavesummer12/01-06.jpg)!" (lookit top left!) :)
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Necris on September 30, 2013, 10:05:04 AM
I'm curious about Keravin's experience and while I've not been able to attend the most recent events for various reasons there have always been new players in attendance and they have always been made to feel welcome, I've brought new players myself and they've really enjoyed it.

An event I attended in which Keravin was present I recall he joined us for lunch and chatted with us during it and joined us at the end of the day in the bar socialising which of course leaves me confused as to where he felt unwelcome.

I personally find your organised events Molotov to more unwelcoming when you clearly stated that attendance was dependant contributions that would be deemed "worthy" of warranting an invitation
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Koval on September 30, 2013, 10:40:58 AM
I'd like to remind everyone that this thread was not created with the intention of starting yet another argument, or for airing grievances.




Quote from: Molotov
The Conclave has historically run games with scoring, rather than games for the fun of it - why not allow players to come and have no-strings attached fun?
Historically, yes, there has been some level of scoring. That will not be the case here, as I'd want to focus more on a joint collaborative storyline, and on having fun, rather than on points and scoreboards. So the focus will, in fact, be on having "no-strings attached fun" (though given that the current plan involves Exodites and now Slaanesh, be careful how that comes out!).

I'd also like to aim for a state of being where if, say, Necris comes along and wants to focus on the event itself, that's fine, but if, say, Kaled would prefer to develop his own characters' plotlines, then that should also be permissible.

On such a note, this event will have only as much to do with Carthax and Dalthus as individual players would like it to have. I'm currently working on a setting where Dalthan characters can participate, where characters like Cardainn and Kaled* can jump in at either scale, and where -- for all sorts of characters -- nothing is true and everything is permitted**.


*Keeping in mind both characters' own exploits in both Carthax and Dalthus.

**I may recently have been drawing parallels between the new Shadowblade model and Altaïr.


Quote from: GavKoval wants to run a Conclave28 to encourage a community here (by having an inq28 only event) to encourage "our" inq28 and ammobunkers' inq28 playing side-by-side (as once AB see 'clavers playing 28 we can get over our arrogant, elitist reputation and have shared events) ?
That was admittedly my original intention, but given that one of the responses was "I'll run a 54mm event on the same day", I felt a dual scale event would present a compromise. And I'll be honest, the main focus will still most likely be on 28mm, but I'd rather 54mm be part of the overall event than wind up competing.


On such a note, I've decided I'm going to turn the Everqueen into a World-Singer. brb hunting for heads and suitable ornaments
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Keravin on September 30, 2013, 11:18:50 AM
Well as the one being talked about I'll respond.

I'm in favour of dual scale events, though my issue is largely in the narrative style differences between the Conclave and Inq28/Ammobunker players.   I did attend the Twin Arches and would have attended others if they didn't keep getting scheduled for dates that make it difficult for me to attend.   As I did say about last weekend's event because I'm running a big charity event next weekend and the thought of doing a full day on Saturday the week before I'm working all weekend to run a big event I've been putting together all year.   

My issues with the Twin Arches, and indeed this thread has shown it, was that it was like pulling teeth to get some people to actually invest in a dual scale event.   Bloodpact likes to talk crap about Inq28, but given he couldn't be arsed on the day to actually put some effort into Inq28 models and then still complained he didn't feel invested.   Well I wonder why there was a lack of investment in the game.   The actual getting games at 28mm on the day was also a little messy given some people still really only wanted to play 54mm.   That's what I mean by not really feeling welcome, compounded by Bloodpact making asinine comments on the forum later.     As someone who compares his level of welcome and engagement to those of the multiple Ammobunker bash or Inq28 events also at Warhammer World, which also came with introduction to largely new groups of players I felt less engaged by the Conclave event.   Hence why I said what I said.

My issue with Conclave games, which I've said to Koval and Marco, is that I don't see a narrative running through.   I've now run my own events twice and my players have indicated they would rather focus on narrative rather than how many games can you get in a day.   So Loidis is moving to a at least 2 games each per day approach.   If we manage more then great, but we've found that having the breathing space means the games get to play out to their full narrative potential, the GMs come knowing the players they will have playing because we approach it as part of an ongoing narrative working with all new players to get them involved.    Something learnt from the first event and will be expanded on for event 3.

But for the Conclave games, which may be partly due to the tournament set up, I see players expected to invest focused on their characters rather than their characters as part of a narrative they get to contribute to and direct.    That's the big difference for me in terms of the philosophies on set up between the two groups.   I know there are AB players who will need more hand holding on the rules because their focus is never on that.   

The Inqvitational events have moved past the invitation stage for the big events.   You contribute to the forum and engage there and you were invited.   Given the perception of Inq28 as open to abuse it was important to get people understanding the philosophy to avoid the turn up with scouts and a space marine, which might be beautifully converted but which do not fit playing Inquisitor really at any scale.   Then again that's also been a case of the community growing and expanding.    Yes we have had smaller events that were invited to, but those were about playing specific scenarios following specific plot strands as determined by the players and GMs.   Then again I had the Loidis events advertised on both here and AB and those were open invites, just wanting to know background of characters so the GMs could be assigned players and work to write scenarios to focus on them.   Even so I had two brand new players at the last event.

I play both scales.   I invest heavily in building and painting characters at both scales.   I will play both scales and am looking at expanding Loidis to be dual scale as I know there are some local players who only have 54mm.    I also have repeatedly offered to help with loaning of figures to allow people to play both scales.

Koval has been in touch about the dual scale event and I haven't had chance to do more than glance through the discussion, but I'm in favour.   I've quickly read Mol's response in email and that was about engaging positively, making suggestions on how to get a good buy in, fit in with both group's background as well and all positive stuff.    Indeed everything he's said here encourages me to support it and the date seems ok, though I need to check it as I already get booked up with holidays and conventions I'm working at.

To be honest both groups need to get past themselves and maybe stop dragging up the past quite as much.   
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Cortez on September 30, 2013, 12:39:17 PM
At any 'dual' scale event you are always going to get players who want to exclusively play at one scale or the other (nothing wrong with that nobody should be forced to create models or play something they don't want to). However the problem can be that most of the other players will favour or be more invested in or simply prefer to play one scale over the other and if you have 6 players who prefer 54mm and just 1 who prefers 28mm then they can easily end up being unintentionally side-lined by the majority.

This is the reason I was favour, in Bugmans bar, of running the event as primarily as a 28mm event in order for people from both communities to get to know each other and realise that the other faction aren't ogres, elitist jerks or whatever. The problem with this of course is that this leaves out those players who only play or strongly prefer 54mm so Koval and Kaleds compromise of calling it a dual scale event seems sensible.

As for type of games being played, I really like the campaign day format where you are trying to achieve an objective of some sort (e.g. get your candidate elected, stop or preserve the cold trade, destroy or support Kaede Mack etc). However I'd be quite happy to play in a more open adhoc style event, or in an event that focuses on developing your characters own plot, so essentially if someone books the tables and chooses a day (needs to be a Saturday not a Sunday and preferably at Warhammer World) then I'll come, schedule and finances permitting.

As a final point, it will take effort on both communities behalf to make this work and perhaps some people think that it isn't worth it, that we don't need to heal this stupid rift, that the communities can quite happily continue going their separate ways and that may well be true but the point that I'm trying to make is we don't have to. What I'd like to see is 30-40 people all playing Inquisitor and taking up a sizable portion of the gaming floor at Warhammer World and possibly making Games Workshop realise that their focus on just 40k and Fantasy is follish and that investing in different types of games would be a good idea (although this is highly unlikely as I think that ship sailed years ago and it seems more likely that, GW being GW, they'll ban us from playing o.o.p. games  ::) rather than embracing the potential extra sales  ;D)
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Molotov on September 30, 2013, 12:43:04 PM
Quotewhich is, ironically, all i take away from any inq28 thread and alot of your posts (including that one)

Well, apologies. I am not the sort to litter my writing with emoticons, and I'm not given to riddling my posts with asterisks, appendices and the like. In that sense I can come across as blunt sometimes, and I'm sorry about that. I certainly have never tried to say INQ28 is better than INQ54 - without the latter, the former would never exist. My stated aim from the start of my blog was to show that the two could stand side-by-side. Hence why I always used PrecinctOmega's line - that INQ28, done properly, is at least the equal of its big brother.

That was why I bolded that particular part of your quote - because I'm all-too-aware that appearances can be deceptive, and that we can have preconceptions lumped upon us by others, often without being aware of them. Sometimes, the most important thing to do is to call those preconceptions to light so that they can be challenged and dismissed.

QuoteI personally find your organised events Molotov to more unwelcoming when you clearly stated that attendance was dependant contributions that would be deemed "worthy" of warranting an invitation

Yes, I have. I'm not especially that repentant about that - as I said in my previous post, I have very few gaming days available to me, and so I wanted to make sure that these days were of a high quality. Is there some moral obligation to make my events open to any Tom, Dick or Harry? My stated aim was to champion narrative integrity, and I think that's gone particularly well. The Helios Succession was a success, and given that we had a lot more people in 2013, I think that also went well. As for the "worth" of people? Well, that's actually nothing to do with the quality of models, but with people being willing to devote time to helping one another on the forum. It was simply that golden rule: be kind to one another. The people who contributed, and became part of that "family", were invited to attend. People who valued story over winning, and were of a like mind. That's how I can say that the INQ28 events have been some of my favourite times in my gaming life.

But that is also why I have always been careful to say that the INQvitationals (et al) are not Ammobunker events. The moderators over at the Ammobunker have very kindly hosted a sub-forum that is of incredible worth. But my views are my own - and I would expect all tournament organisers to be the same. For that reason, I would perhaps move away from lumping all INQ28 players together (there are some in America, for example, that I will likely never meet) and instead would use a term like "The Dalthan Group" or the like. My events may have seemed elitist, but the required barrier for entry isn't particularly arduous. Mark's Leeds events are obviously very different in ways - I wouldn't say his events are representative of mine, nor mine of his. But that is still his perogative. Even so, I am sorry you've had negative experiences with INQ28 players.

As Koval has said numerous times, we are all playing the same game. These differences are lamentable and, I hope, can be resolved. And as said previously, I hope that Koval's event works well.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: MarcoSkoll on September 30, 2013, 05:41:59 PM
Quote from: Molotov on September 30, 2013, 09:41:14 AMI haven't had many pleasant experiences with 54mm players, however. The Conclave is an arrogant and elitist institution - or has a reputation as seeming so. Historically, it has done nothing but fleer and scorn INQ28 and Inquisimunda when it could have set up subforums to host the nascent community.
Historically, what some people have done with 28mm and Inquisitor in the past have however been fairly poor ways to play the game.

When "what was the worst GW game" threads show up on other forums, you'll usually get someone talking about Inquisitor with an example like their GM threw a Devastator squad with Razorback into a game and was basically railroading all the players into being thrashed. That's an actual example I recall, and while it was never stated to be 28mm, I'm betting it was - there aren't a lot of 54mm Rhino chassis out there.

Yes, people - myself included - dramatically overreacted by becoming unfairly cynical to all 28mm play, forgetting that these horror stories were a smaller fraction than was apparent (due to the inherent selection bias of people being more likely to complain than compliment), but even if the reasons were exaggerated, they weren't inexplicable.

QuoteThis is a situation where the Conclave's owner wrote an article for Fanatic condemning the use of 40k models in Inquisitor.
Although the wording is not perhaps what Saussure meant, I don't exactly disagree with the statement. Inquisitor models can be 28mm, 54mm or anything above, below or between, but they generally shouldn't be straight out of the WH40K game.

Now, I could delete that article from the archives, but I'm not going to - the archive, or at least that part of it, isn't about what I do or don't agree with. There are a lot of things in there I think are wrong, but it's not the Inquisitor archive as censored by MarcoSkoll.

Quotebut there are still plenty of comments that showed people were contemptuous.
People here don't have to be united in their opinions, nor do people have to hold the same opinion all their life! There is of course that old saying: "Ask three people and you'll get given four opinions".

This desire to reunite the scales of Inquisitor may seem to be a bit "come crawling back", but if you're going to point fingers regarding where the motivations came from, you're probably pointing in my direction.
No, I'm not the only person trying to achieve it, but I'm one of the people who started trying to achieve it.

Am I driven by a desire to help stop or slow Inquisitor's death?
Yes, that is a strong part of my reasoning. However, I've been trying to do strengthen and support Inquisitor in various forms for the last five years, so it's not any marriage of convenience - I genuinely enjoy both scales and feel both would be strengthened by greater unity.

QuoteWhen I tried to help Kaled unite both scales, Conclavers outright refused to move Carthax - posters threw their toys out of the pram. Keravin attended a Conclave event and found it to be an event where he wasn't welcomed particularly.
It's not really any more practical to move Carthax than it would be to move Dalthus. Both sectors have people who've written things tying them to their galactic locations.

Admittedly, Carthax also has some anatopic oddities, like the Ultramarines having brought the sector into line, but the entirety of GW literature is scattered with such things. An example I've used previously is the 2nd war for Armageddon, where the three chapters that turn up to help are all First Legions with home worlds in the Ultima Segmentum, not Solar.

However, frankly, if we wanted to clear that up, it'd probably be a smaller retcon to change the Legion in question to the Death Guard or Raven Guard (both of whom are homed in the right Segmentum).

But one alternative for that that I've considered recently is that it was perhaps actually one of the Unknown Legions. One of those legions could plausibly have been based in Pacificus, and given the Astartes from those Legions have been implied to have been incorporated into the Ultramarines later on, their legion's official removal from the records would mean that present records would probably show them as Ultramarines and no-one 10 000 years on would be any the wiser.


And I am sorry that things weren't great for Keravin, but with a final turnout of six (plus myself), the Twin Arches event was never going to be a high for Inquisitor eventing.

QuoteIn an ideal world, united events would be the norm. But to suggest that it is all on the INQ28 community's truculence or refusal to cooperate is naive or dangerous. Mainly because it assumes yet again that we have to do things the Conclave's way.
On the note of "three people, four opinions", I'm not sure there is any big one "Conclave way" but, assuming such a universal agreement can exist, what would be the "Ammobunker way" of doing things?

Dual scale events are going to be at least somewhat reliant on players with active interest in both scales to really get put into gear, and I can't think of many such players on Ammobunker who don't also have a Conclave history.

QuoteWhat would it do if people on the Conclave admitted they have a bad reputation?
To be honest, I wrote up something like that to head my Ammobunker topic regarding a new 2nd edition effort (hoping that lessening my reputation for being something of a braggart might mean more people might contribute), but eventually cut almost the entirety of it because "I know I have a bad reputation, but I'd appreciate your feedback" had the potential to come across like "I have a bad reputation because you don't listen to me".

After all, I've had a few run-ins on Ammobunker already, with more than a few statements not being read quite how I intended.

However, I think the best answer can be summed up quite promptly:

Quote from: Keravin on September 30, 2013, 11:18:50 AMTo be honest both groups need to get past themselves and maybe stop dragging up the past quite as much.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Heroka Vendile on September 30, 2013, 05:57:17 PM
My personal responses to Molotov: on the state of inter-forum relations, events and forum history

Quote from: Molotov on September 30, 2013, 09:41:14 AM
I have no problem with Inq54 modelling or gaming, and indeed I have 54mm models of my own that are half-completed. Equally, I have no problem with INQ54 (or dual-scale) events. I haven't had many pleasant experiences with 54mm players, however. The Conclave is an arrogant and elitist institution - or has a reputation as seeming so. Historically, it has done nothing but fleer and scorn INQ28 and Inquisimunda when it could have set up subforums to host the nascent community. And my worry, Kaled, is that your suggestions are a bit "too little, too late."

This attitude, I believe, stems from the defensive stance that slowly developed as GW steadily strangled Specialist Games. It became a matter of principle that the best way to ensure Inquisitor survived and stood out from the crowd was to encourage people to play it in the official scale. Just like the other SGs, the only way we could try and ensure GW would continue to give any form of official support was to make sales happened.

Although remember of course that (if not in the rulebook itself, certainly in one of the launch articles in White Dwarf) there was a clear statement by Gav Thorpe that the rules were fluid enough to be happily played at any scale. As indeed it has been, I remember reading that at one of USA Games Days a table was run with converted G.I.Joes as the Last Chancers using Inquisitor rules.

QuoteWhen I tried to help Kaled unite both scales, Conclavers outright refused to move Carthax - posters threw their toys out of the pram. Another attempt dashed. Keravin attended a Conclave event and found it to be an event where he wasn't welcomed particularly. Another attempt failed.
My stance was and remains "what does it matter?"
Like most Conclavers all my games in recent years come at the event weekends, self contained stories that, even if they have the same players as the previous event, half of them will probably have brought a different warband anyway because it's the only chance they get to try something different, so continuity is deliberately fast and loose.
Therefore in many ways an "ongoing saga" is irrellivant to players like myself, I don't really care if the scenario supposedly means my Inquisitor is half way across the galaxy from where he should be, I'm getting to player Inquisitor and that's all that matters to me. That's not to say I'm against Carthax or Dalthus, it's nice to have a defined place for the mess to happen, I just don't feel you should in any way be a slave to it if you just want to play a game.

Fundamentally, conclave events have always had a very "pick up and play" attitude – sometimes within a broad story framework for the day, but not always.

QuoteWith Dalthus, we have created a cohesive and integrated narrative that has been one of the highlights of my gaming life. There has been this insidious insinuation that INQ28 is somehow "lesser", that it "needs" the Conclave, but that's not true.
Again I suspect this comes from what is now ancient history, the fact that the Conclave is one of the surviving direct descendants of the original GW forums means that those who have been around since before GW handed the forums over to the fans will always view it as the "true home" online for Inquisitor. I guess one of the other things that will have perhaps resulted in a "haughty" appearance is that fact that as a game that often deals with the finer details of the setting – being accurate is held as important, resulting in the quick shooting down of the more "out-there" ideas that would appear quite regularily in the early years with the firm attitude of "no, that can't be done because X, Y & Z, also Abnett is rubbish". Charax inparticular had a personal reputation for this, being harsh but fundamentally correct in his assertions.

QuoteThe Conclave gets many new posters, and many yellow welcomes, but it doesn't ever manage to retain those posters. Why? On average, the Ammobunker forum gets more posts in a day than the Conclave does in a week. Why? 
To be fair, The Conclave deals exclusively in Inquisitor (and Witch Hunter), so if 'clavers want to post about their 40k/fantasy/infinity/etc. they have to go to an entirely separate forum, whereas Ammobunker has a larger all-inclusive ecosystem, but happens to have a significantly populated dedicated INQ28 sub-board. So ammobunker posters will likely go there and only there, whereas to come to the Conclave requires a further step, even if it's just a mental barrier rather than taking any longer to physically navigate to (and ensuring good communication and community online is all about ensuring the minimum number of experiential steps possible to get from A to B).


QuoteI feel Marco has worked hard to battle peoples' preconceptions of him. But there is, I think, a lot of distrust towards the Conclave - or to Conclavers.
This is something I've actually heard quite a lot of, through our over two years of weekly Dark Heresy sessions Skype, about Marco getting negative responses to his presence or voicing an opinion on Ammobunker, so as you say, can't really pin it all on 'clavers.

QuoteThe Conclave has historically run games with scoring, rather than games for the fun of it - why not allow players to come and have no-strings attached fun?
Scoring has only ever really been a thing for the IGT. I suppose the contacts cards used recently have been a sort of scoring, but only to determine which table a player ends on up in the final games.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Heroka Vendile on September 30, 2013, 06:05:49 PM
My thoughts on a dual-scale event

Absolutely go for it.

If you can get a pool of NPCs etc in both scales and appropriate scenarios written, then players with a personal preference for either scale can still GM in the other without any issue, as well as "forcing" interaction with each other as opposed to effectively running two separate events side by side.

This kind of thing, as a launchpad, can't be strongly tied to either Carthax or Dalthus IMHO, it should instead be "sold" as something akin to:
The Inquisitor 13th Anniversary Shindig
a day of casual pick-up and play games and perhaps showcase a couple collections such as Molotov and Kaleds to really celebrate the breadth, variety and vitality at the heart of Inquisitor even now.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Kaled on September 30, 2013, 06:09:14 PM
I had planned to not respond in this thread to let other people discuss what they wanted to get out of an event, so I'm sorry that my desire to play at 54mm seems to have been the cause of yet another resurgence of this old debate.

As I've said, I have nothing against people playing at 28mm - Molotov set out to prove that it could work and has succeeded admirably. However 54mm is the scale I've invested heavily in and given how infrequently I get to play, I would prefer to focus on that scale.

In the past I did try to come up with ways to bring the Inquisitor community together to do something fun and interesting. I went into it with what I think/hope were good intentions but I couldn't find a way to make it work. Early on I thought there was a lot we could gain and learn from each other; in very oversimplified terms, the Conclave had a lot of experience with the game and the Ammobunker had a ton of enthusiasm. Nowadays the Ammobunker has plenty of experienced players, they've run several very successful events, have a great shared background in Dalthus and the enthusiasm shows no sign of waning; meanwhile the Conclave has generally just declined. I do worry it may well be too late to build a 28mm community here - to be honest I've wondered for some time if it's too late to even save the existing community - however I've made plenty of friends through this forum who I enjoy playing games with and I'd like that to continue.

Perhaps I was too quick to oppose Koval's suggestion...  When I mentioned running a 54mm 'event' I put it in quotes to try to make it clear that I was not intending to run a proper event in competition with his, just something for those few people who weren't interested in playing at 28mm but who still wanted to play a couple of games and meet up with friends in the bar. Even if he does decide to make it a dual-scale event,  I'm more than happy it to be predominantly 28mm with 54mm as a sideshow - but I also see no reason why he or anyone else should feel the need to pander to my desire to play 54mm when organising an event (though obviously I'd like it if they do!).
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Koval on September 30, 2013, 06:35:56 PM
Please stop with the 28/54 debate, the Ammobunker/Conclave debate, all of that. This thread is about an event that I want to arrange and run. We should be looking at ways to make this work, rather than dredging up old arguments.

On such a note... Keravin and Cortez, at the moment, are arguably the ones talking the most sense.




Nonetheless I'm making some fair progress with world-building. I would of course be very grateful for the input of someone that knows their way around Photoshop or GIMP, so that the star charts can be done properly... but beyond that, the basic ideas are genuinely starting to come together.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Holiad on September 30, 2013, 07:59:03 PM
Be fair-having proposed a 28mm event, it's hardly reasonable to expect subsequent discussion to leave out scale altogether.

For much the same reasons as Kaled, I'm also strongly against a 28mm event. While it's partly that I already have several 54mm characters ready to use, it's also the case that I enjoy modelling at the larger scale, and while I have several other games I play at 28mm, inquisitor is the only game I play that uses that particular scale. For me, the scale *is* important, and a 28mm event not only forces me to play at a different scale to the one I prefer, it's also forcing me to build a completely new warband specifically for that event. As a method of encouraging greater unity between the communities, it is quite simply far too one sided-you're demanding that 54mm players like me change scale, but there's no corresponding concession from the 28mm community.
A dual-scale event feels more reasonable, and I'd be willing to attend, but there's a big increase in the logistics involved.

As for the style of event, I've personally enjoyed events with a strong narrative like The Saint, the Kaede Mack conspiracy, and the succession of Lord Calleia. However, I also like that conclave events are very open about who can attend. It's a very big plus that even a new player can turn up on the day and still participate, and I feel too restrictive a narrative risks compromising that openness. I agree that a dual-scale event may well do best with a setting that was independant of Carthax or Dalthus-rewriting either setting to be compatable with the other is too big of a concession to ask either way, where a new setting would at least put the two communities on the same level.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Koval on September 30, 2013, 08:38:46 PM
Quote from: Holiad on September 30, 2013, 07:59:03 PM
Be fair-having proposed a 28mm event, it's hardly reasonable to expect subsequent discussion to leave out scale altogether.
True, and I'm not against constructive discussion, but the arguments I'm currently seeing have unfortunately led to a lot of past bitterness.

QuoteFor much the same reasons as Kaled, I'm also strongly against a 28mm event.
[...]
A dual-scale event feels more reasonable, and I'd be willing to attend, but there's a big increase in the logistics involved.
Hence why I'm favouring dual scale at the moment over my initial single scale proposal. And don't worry, I know the logistics will be a nightmare, but as I'm looking to avoid winter and the risk of snow (and am aware of the Ammobunker Openbash and the IGT both taking place in... probably March?), I've got plenty of time to make this work. :P

QuoteAs for the style of event, I've personally enjoyed events with a strong narrative like The Saint, the Kaede Mack conspiracy, and the succession of Lord Calleia.
None of which I attended, so I'll have to look them up. :P

QuoteI agree that a dual-scale event may well do best with a setting that was independant of Carthax or Dalthus
Hence the world building! And I think I've now found someone to help me with my maps ;D
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: greenstuff_gav on September 30, 2013, 09:05:21 PM
could always do what i planned for Eramus Affair; simply print 2 copies of the campaign and let people hop between scales as they like, but effectivley run 2 seperate copies of the same campaign :D
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Heroka Vendile on October 01, 2013, 11:45:29 AM
The IGT isn't especially tied down to spring, that's just when it's been the past couple years, originally it was in early Dec till one year where hardly anyone could do the proposed date, so it got shunted back a couple months.

Also I wouldn't say any of the 28/54 discourse in this thread was irrelevant – in fact it brought me fully up to date on a couple things I had been unaware of – as it was all about past experiences of the community interactions and how each groups runs it's own events. The only way to make things work is to discus and understand what's "gone wrong" in the past.
It all has a very significant bearing on whether or not anyone would actually attend a dual scale event in the first place.

One of the fundamental decisions for the event's structure is playtime vs number of games. While I can see all the positives to the individual games being allowing this to play out at their own pace as Molotov's events do – I am not the only one who has to pay a lot of money to travel half the country and stay in a hotel overnight, doing so for only 2-3 games is no where near as appealing as knowing I will get 4 or 5 games with the rigid game schedule.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Keravin on October 01, 2013, 12:01:20 PM
Point of correction: MY events run to their own schedule for games.  Molotov's used a timed element.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Koval on October 01, 2013, 12:12:22 PM
Quote from: Heroka Vendile on October 01, 2013, 11:45:29 AM
The IGT isn't especially tied down to spring, that's just when it's been the past couple years, originally it was in early Dec till one year where hardly anyone could do the proposed date, so it got shunted back a couple months.
Fair enough.

QuoteAlso I wouldn't say any of the 28/54 discourse in this thread was irrelevant – in fact it brought me fully up to date on a couple things I had been unaware of – as it was all about past experiences of the community interactions and how each groups runs it's own events. The only way to make things work is to discus and understand what's "gone wrong" in the past.
It all has a very significant bearing on whether or not anyone would actually attend a dual scale event in the first place.
This is very true. Again, however, the problem here is with the discussions themselves turning sour (and doing so only too quickly). I have no issues with constructive discourse, but we have a problem when "what's gone wrong in the past" turns into "what's wrong at the moment / this is wrong" kinds of arguments.

QuoteOne of the fundamental decisions for the event's structure is playtime vs number of games. While I can see all the positives to the individual games being allowing this to play out at their own pace as Molotov's Keravin's events do – I am not the only one who has to pay a lot of money to travel half the country and stay in a hotel overnight, doing so for only 2-3 games is no where near as appealing as knowing I will get 4 or 5 games with the rigid game schedule.
Correction my own as Keravin ninja'd me :P

I'm working on a four-game structure at the moment -- I'm aiming for somewhere between the pace and (nominal) game length of the Eramus Affair, and the time to catch your breath offered by IGT'13. I'd have to try not to compromise on narrative, though. Still, plenty of time to work this all out :)
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: TheNephew on October 01, 2013, 12:59:11 PM
Just to chip in my underinformed two cents about the prospective event (which is the prime subject, rather than the scale beef):

I thought the .only. weakness of the Eramus Affair was the necessarily time-limited games. All my games had to be chopped off before their natural conclusion, but we had a schedule, and in order for the day to work, it had to be adhered to.

Plot cards, contacts, information points and the like were all an excellent idea, and nobody (as far as I could tell) was playing a win-at-all-costs game, nobody was more interested in the points than the story, but the campaign gimmicks really did add a nice level of strategy to the encounters and made it far easier to build a sensible narrative around warbands that might otherwise have been tricky to shoehorn into the same story.

I think if you can duck the stigma of having a 'points' system, it's something that should definitely be a part of it - perhaps book time for a minimum of two two-hour games, Round 1 collecting contacts or info, and a finale at the end of the day based on what/who you got, with enough room in the middle for players to work out among themselves who wants to be where in the last game, and play a game or two to solidify that.
And if people wind up playing to win instead of playing to play, call 'em out and try and get them into the spirit of things.

Rambling a bit, apologies.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Molotov on October 01, 2013, 01:02:40 PM
Heroka - thank you for your interesting posts.

The Helios Succession ran a four-game day, with four 75-minute games. The Sins of the Master event ran with three 105-minute games. The Requiem day had the mega-battle in the morning, and then players were free to do their own games.

I have always tried to ensure in my events that all players are included in all games - as you mention, many players invest a great deal of time and effort in getting to the day, making their figures and the like, that I want the day to be worth the effort they've put in.

Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: MarcoSkoll on October 01, 2013, 10:53:49 PM
Quote from: TheNephew on October 01, 2013, 12:59:11 PMI thought the .only. weakness of the Eramus Affair was the necessarily time-limited games. We had a schedule, and in order for the day to work, it had to be adhered to.
90 minute timeslots (including shuffling about, briefing, etc) are tough.

It's not impossible for me to run to 90 minutes, but I'm a mega nerd who could probably run a 100% rules accurate game without the reference sheets, and even then, inexperienced players or those that prefer to play at a more sedate pace can affect this pace quite a lot. (Although if I ever turned up at a day fully rested, Emperor knows).

The issue is that 'Clave events tend to focus on intra-narrative (internal, self contained narrative), which is a struggle to grow across only three games, else 120 minute timeslots would be more ideal.

This is something that the Dalthan or Loidis focus on inter-narrative (narratives running between events) get to benefit from, but these events tend to have the same overseers every time - not something everyone wants to do!
As such, the 'Clave event organisation is mostly down to who has ideas and willingness to run the next event.

This means one of the common criticisms of the Carthaxian approach is a perceived absence of inter-narrative - and, with the greatest of respect, I have to say this view is almost invariably held by people who've been to no or almost no 'Clave events!

The plots frequently have any number of tie-ins to past (or, in plenty of cases, future) events, and that's to say nothing of the characters' own histories - and depending on the author, the tie-ins can often extend to the forum RPGs, and more than a few cross-overs and details are forged with the VoiP RPs that go on in the background.

Now, both the intra- and inter- narrative weighted approaches have their merits - Dalthus' weighting will probably be more rewarding for long term contributors and Carthax's weighting will probably be more open to people who can't reliably contribute on a long term basis - but the core difference in making is the presence or absence of a consistent head honcho.
Presently, the 'Clave events don't have such a thing, and due to the nature of Carthax having been created with no core author, probably never will (at least long term).

The best thing for an intra-narrative would probably be a big two day event with five or six games overall. However, it's also highly impracticable - considerably more exhausting and expensive to attend, as well as being very difficult for some of our further flung attendees to make timely travel arrangements for.

So, the structure as is largely the compromise to allow Conclave events to work on a single day without tying one person down as an author.

That said, it could be nice to have one person (or a unified team) run several linked events, but that'll need a lot of work. I do have an idea that might work for such a thing - building off the backbones set in place by "the Saint" event to have the Inquisition attempt to retake the fallen Alykia sector, using each event for different parts of that colossal task. However, only a very crude suggestion, and probably a long way off, if I have the stomach for that much work at all!

While I'm on the subject of event structures, I do have to admit that I agree with some of the previous posters, in that an overly strict inter-narrative approach can sometimes make it quite the effort to actually arrange games.

This year's OpenBash demanded that I had to be really quite forceful to sort out the one game I did actually manage to arrange in advance.
And, knowing that players sometimes have last minute commitments or illnesses, there's always the fear that something will render all that effort moot; To be fair, such an absence is yet to happen, but I have instead been presented with a couple of cases where I've had to contrive scenarios at about five minutes notice instead!

I stress, I don't mind being called upon to wing things, but it does become a little bit less tolerable (and has a certain comedic irony to it) when I'm doing it almost because of a resistance to on the fly match-ups.

So, to an extent, I think there's things to be learnt both ways.
'Clave events should probably experiment with more extended narratives, and 'Bunker events (using the Ammobunker as just a very loose grouping of events) could benefit from more realising the difficulty of producing only games that have tie-ins to previous narrative.
If nothing else, a few "random" games every now and again will be the seed for new and previously unenvisioned plot lines.

~~~~~

Anywho, I guess I'm rambling here.

I suppose the grand point is that as one of the few people who has been to a significant number of events of each approach, I can say that both ways have their flaws as they are currently presented.
My stinger is that I can't honestly believe that people's preferences for either intra-event or inter-event narratives should actually be quite such an exact correlation with the forum that person most affiliates with or the scale they most often model or play (people may claim they prefer things despite having really never fully experienced it both ways*).

*And the same can be said about the size of models, in truth.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Keravin on October 02, 2013, 01:02:48 PM
I can tell you that operating on the basis that getting gamers to do what they said they would do is nigh on impossible that all Loidis events have always had back up scenarios written for no specific characters/players to allow for drop ins and to give to a GM to run so they didn't need to prep anything.

Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Heroka Vendile on October 03, 2013, 11:56:58 AM
I think 90mins will be fine, we manage to squeeze games out in under 75mins at the IGTs (well, sort of) and without the additional time sinks like organising the P&M and the quiz sheet, adding 15mins to each game block is feasible. In fact if you knock the changeover time down from 15 to 10mins and add in time from the "freeplay" segment that everyone normally just ignores and moves into Bugmans during, you can easily up each game slot to 100mins.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Koval on October 03, 2013, 02:17:15 PM
I'll definitely take that on board :)
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Holiad on October 03, 2013, 02:32:40 PM
90 mins is enough for most games, and may even be too long-inquisitor is, after all, a game which can end very fast and violently, leaving one player with little or nothing to do for the remaining time.
One of the reasons I liked the events I did was that I felt they had a very strong internal narrative to them, but I think it's important that these narratives remain largely self-contained, even where they connect to a larger plot. The main reasons for this would be the time between events, and the obstacles to regular attendance placed by the distance some of us travel-at best, it would be three or four months before the next installment, much more likely six or more, and there's a pretty big risk an important player may not make it. Much as I might enjoy a more detailed inter-event narrative, it doesn't quite feel practical.

A couple of bits I liked specifically about my favourite events, partly because I felt they significantly strengthened the narrative-
The 'faction' systems in the Saint and Kaede Mack. Loose as they were, they were a big improvement on simply having unaligned characters.
Similarly, and partly because of faction-specific objectives, the scenarios themselves were strongly tied to the narrative theme of the event. This was particularly apparent in the finales, with linked tables giving a very good sense of the endgames of various dramatic plots.
I feel that the plot cards gav used might also have great promise when combined with a faction system-one of the problems was that they felt a little too generic, and therefore didn't really fit with the warbands using them, and I feel that making them faction specific might improve that a bit.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Koval on October 03, 2013, 03:11:09 PM
QuoteThe 'faction' systems in the Saint and Kaede Mack. Loose as they were, they were a big improvement on simply having unaligned characters.
That's a very good idea. Thank you for suggesting it.

A faction system will definitely help me throw together games where we avoid blue-on-blue incidents (and you yourself saw how awkward the encounter was between Lyra and Alice), and minimises mismatches as far as possible. It also offers a sense of narrative cohesion, as characters can stay "in character", and should be able to pursue their own goals without having to detract from the overall story. However, an obvious disadvantage there is that we risk having multiple games where the same two players end up facing each other rather than mingling with other players, just because they're of appropriate factions.

We also risk having too many characters of a given faction -- or not enough! At the 2013 INQvitational, for example, I distinctly remember Molotov having a lack of Radicals, and so my own Inquisitor Schwertwald had to get drafted in as "the one willing to consort with Eldar" for the simple reason that she won't kill one on sight.

I'll definitely try to implement factions, but it may end up being rather loose and won't be as simple as, for example, a Puritan/Radical split. It may end up being a simpler version of the word game Molotov asked INQvitational attendees to do prior to the event, but I've got time to weigh up all sorts of options.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Necris on October 03, 2013, 03:54:29 PM
I think to solve the "faction" issue you brought up Koval is to have agenda based factions as opposed to ideal based factions during the saint campaign my Puritan inquisitor found himself in what many could consider a radical faction in wanting to marytr the saint seeing her as a weapon that could be exploited by less than trustworthy manipulatorers he opted to side with the few radical inquisitors to see this carried out.

A good thing to remember is that puritans and radicals do work side by side it's only where their ideals solidly clash do they turn against one another, for example Inquisitor x a staunch Puritan and inquisitor y a know radical are seeking to route out and exterminate a cult they agree to work together but when Y seeks to capture a weapon the cult has acquired instead of destroying it the two diverge and come to blows.

So for the campaign y would be in the exterminate faction but would have secondary objectives for him to play with.

The events I've ran in the past I tried to find out who was bringing what so I could slid in some personalised objectives for the campaign, but this never really manifested as many players were unsure who they would be using on the day or it was dependant on whether or not they got a certain character finished for the day.

Another good idea you could use as inspiration for this is the Mlifaux objectives and schemes idea with the campaign having a set of overall objectives and each inquisitor having their own secret scheme
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: MarcoSkoll on October 03, 2013, 05:59:16 PM
Quote from: Heroka Vendile on October 03, 2013, 11:56:58 AMIn fact if you knock the changeover time down from 15 to 10mins and add in time from the "freeplay" segment that everyone normally just ignores and moves into Bugmans during, you can easily up each game slot to 100mins.
Not sure on your maths there! 100 minutes times four games, plus at least two changeovers adds up to 420 minutes, which for an eight hour day leaves only an hour to combine between morning briefing (including time for people to get coke/beer and make toilet stops) and lunch.

Four 90 minute timeslots, with two 10 minute changeovers, an hour for lunch, half an hour for the morning and 10 minutes spare (if there isn't any/much totting up to do) just about manages to fit between 10 and 6 o'clock, but longer than that is probably a no go.

Quote from: Holiad on October 03, 2013, 02:32:40 PM90 mins is enough for most games, and may even be too long
I'm not necessarily sure I agree.
It's long enough for some games with the right people around the table, but in what is now four years of Inquisitor events, I've seen only a single case where a game has ended with a large excess of time to spare (and it was a game I had deliberately written to run quickly - I'd just wildly overcompensated and it thus ran wayyy too fast), but I've felt that a significant fraction of games could have done with an extra turn or three. 

Quote from: Holiad on October 03, 2013, 02:32:40 PM[More words about internal narrative, factions and plots.]
A lot of this, as I've discussed with Koval, was things I was trying to do with the Twin Arches.

If it had ever actually been realised in the full form it had been envisioned, as opposed to having had some of the details a bit rushed (partly due to having to be so heavily cut down and redesigned), it would have been trying to get players to trade leads, clues and all that, forming their own factions and alliances along the way.

Quote from: Koval on October 03, 2013, 03:11:09 PMWe also risk having too many characters of a given faction -- or not enough!
As I did it, the factions weren't strict ruling as to who was playing against whom. In theory, two players in the same faction could find themselves vying for the credit from any given situation - either deliberately, or should they have happened to choose to conceal their intentions from each other.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: greenstuff_gav on October 03, 2013, 06:07:24 PM
Quote from: Necris on October 03, 2013, 03:54:29 PM
Another good idea you could use as inspiration for this is the Mlifaux objectives and schemes idea with the campaign having a set of overall objectives and each inquisitor having their own secret scheme

which was the inspiration behind Data Transfer :)
i like this system; doesn't always guarantee you end up interacting with the opponent tho....

on the "factions" part i thought about it for Eramus but you either;

know all the main PCs and their intentions beforehand

announce the factions beforehand so people can decide which characters / motivations they're aiming for

and due to quantity of writing i had to do, decided against it and left things a bit vague... possibly too vague :(
both have their problems, such as when only 6 people arrive or everyone follows the same ideal (the finale at Twin Arches; 3 of the 4 votes were the same weren't they?)
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Koval on October 03, 2013, 06:28:18 PM
I remember more than just four votes, and I also remember Alice -- barely even an Interrogator -- coming within a chainsword's Reach modifier of literally beating some sense into most of the Inquisitors involved (remember that we didn't nuke the table from orbit :P )

Quotebut you either;

know all the main PCs and their intentions beforehand
This might be how I end up doing it in practice, as I can then put characters of like mind into loose groups and just not put them together during the Intrigue games if I think a scenario will turn too much into PvE (or PvGM). There needs to be some conflict!
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Necris on October 03, 2013, 08:27:48 PM
As said knowing all player characters before an event can prove trick especially when some of us like to bring "new" characters for the day

But if you can get an idea of who's bringing what it does help
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Bloodpact on October 03, 2013, 10:19:30 PM
Quote from: Keravin on September 30, 2013, 11:18:50 AM
Bloodpact likes to talk crap about Inq28, but given he couldn't be arsed on the day to actually put some effort into Inq28 models and then still complained he didn't feel invested.   Well I wonder why there was a lack of investment in the game.   The actual getting games at 28mm on the day was also a little messy given some people still really only wanted to play 54mm.   That's what I mean by not really feeling welcome, compounded by Bloodpact making asinine comments on the forum later.

Quote from: Keravin on September 30, 2013, 11:18:50 AM
To be honest both groups need to get past themselves and maybe stop dragging up the past quite as much.

Always nice to feel appreciated. Nice to see im still being crucified over an off the cuff (if somewhat poorly judged) joke about my preference for 54mm.

Whilst i have no objection to a dual scale event, and would actively encourage people to try and expand our community, i would also like people to respect my position of only wanting to play Inq is 54mm. 28mm simply doesnt interest me, in the same way that im sure 54mm doesnt interest many people. I think as Necris said, trying to mangle the 2 communities together is sadly doomed to failure.

AAAAANNNNYYYYWAY...


As far as the event goes, im always interested in more opportunities to play games of Inquisitor. A dual scale event is a great idea, but i cant see it attracting any more players than the usual crowd. It was great to see new people at Gav's event, but we only seem to be able to get a revolving door attendance of around 12 people. 

Whilst Gav's player/GM's was a great idea for helping to make sure we had as many players as possible, i think it stifled the narrative of each scenario a little as most games i played devolved into a fight with no real plot develpoment. This could be in part due to the amount of new players, but also because a dedicated GM can often veto certain aggressive actions in favour of a more interesting and challenging encounter (and one that comes with a proper resolution). As a result i couldnt really do anything with the warband i had brought with me as they aren't designed for a stand-up fight, and were fired up without provocation a couple of times simply because they were the most obvious target. A neutral GM can help to avoid these situations and move the scenario along.
With this in mind, assuming the usual turnout of around 12 players, i would aim to have 3 gaming and a GM over 3 scenarios, rather than trying to get everybody gaming.

I'd be intrigued to see if anybody shared my experiences from the Eramus Affair?

Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Cortez on October 03, 2013, 11:15:17 PM
I found the player GM's worked ok. The only scenario that degenerated into a shootout was the one which was supposed to (Shotgun Diplomacy in round 2). The other scenarios all had quite a lot of negotiation and conversation between the players, and I think the third scenario (for me) didn't even have any player character attack another at all. I'd be quite happy to see the system used again as it meant it didn't matter who was GM as you were still playing (I ended up GMing three of the four games).

As I said earlier it will take a certain amount of effort to get a larger attendance of players at both scales but it would be worth it. I would think that three or four tables of players at each scale per round should be possible.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: MarcoSkoll on October 04, 2013, 01:04:35 AM
Quote from: Bloodpact on October 03, 2013, 10:19:30 PMWhilst Gav's player/GM's was a great idea for helping to make sure we had as many players as possible, i think it stifled the narrative of each scenario a little
I am inclined to agree that scenarios are generally (if not universally) better for having a dedicated GM.
That's not to say that all scenarios have to have a GM or that scenarios are automatically bad without one, but the presence of a separate GM will almost certainly improve a game.

It is nice to play in all the games in a day, but I'd usually consider the trade-off a fair one. Three games with the benefits of a GM and GMing one round is fine by me.
I'm sure not all will agree - but hey... I enjoy GMing almost as much as playing (it's quite a different experience to GMing for standard RPGs - much like I was saying in Bugmans last weekend, the outcome of a game is much less scripted than in PvE RPGing), so provided it's an interesting enough scenario, I'm happy with that!
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Koval on October 04, 2013, 06:48:48 AM
Quote from: Cortez on October 03, 2013, 11:15:17 PM
I think the third scenario (for me) didn't even have any player character attack another at all.
If that's the same scenario as the one I'm thinking of, Langley and Nowatschenko ended up shooting at Kaled's Tau.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Cortez on October 04, 2013, 09:08:59 AM
Ah I didn't remember that it went that far. I knew they were manoeuvring for a fight but wasn't sure if it had started or not.

Regarding the time limit of each round, I've found over the Conclave meets and GT's that I've attended that the games rarely require more than the 1hr 10 or so minutes usually allocated to them. Most games are usually at a position where the end outcome can be easily determined and I've had several games that were fully finished easily within the time limit. I can only really recall one game where we didn't really get close to achieving any of the objectives (although I do wonder if with my increased experience with the rules and the newer conversation method we would have the same problem today).

Have you got an idea as to when you'd like to hold the event Koval?
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Koval on October 04, 2013, 09:53:36 AM
QuoteHave you got an idea as to when you'd like to hold the event Koval?

I've currently pencilled in April 26th as a speculative date, though in principle either the 5th or 12th could also work (depending on when the Bristol Vanguard hold their next Vanquish event). In principle there's also May 3rd. However, I have yet to run anything past WHW.

I'd like to avoid March in case that's when we schedule IGT'14.

I would also like to avoid the 19th, due to it being Easter weekend (so I know you in particular can't make it based on what you said about IGT'13, and I don't like to deliberately choose dates where I already know someone can't attend).
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Keravin on October 04, 2013, 11:00:42 AM
I would seriously advise avoiding earlier in April because that's when Salute is.   Earlier in April takes me out as a player/GM because I am more than likely going to/working Salute.
Title: Re: Brainstorming -- 2014 Spring Conclave -- Dual Scale Event?
Post by: Koval on October 04, 2013, 11:09:31 AM
Thanks for letting me know. It currently looks like a choice between April 26th, or a date in May.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites (working title)
Post by: Koval on October 26, 2013, 10:24:51 AM
Morning folks,

So I've had a few more ideas about this event.

Firstly, logistics.

As I see no present obstacles to holding it on April 26th (last Saturday in April), I'll approach GW with that date a bit nearer the time. I'll also be working out times in due course; I'm aiming for 90 minute time slots, giving us 10 for changeover/setting up, and 80 for an actual game. This may be subject to further change.




I'd like some volunteers to help out with GM duties on the day -- and if you'd like to use this as an opportunity to run a scenario of your own devising, let me know and we can work it in. I've planned sixteen scenarios, of which nine are integral to the event and I'd definitely like to see a tenth happen. So there are six potential openings if someone wants to run their own scenario, but I'd primarily like GMs willing to GM one of the main scenarios :P

On such a note, some of the scenarios can be run with Player GMs, but some can't, so I'd like some Dedicated GMs in the mix as well.

I don't foresee there being "scoring", but I'll probably produce some "assets" (in card form or otherwise) for those who win a particular scenario -- these may give them extra wargear, a NPC operative, or even an impediment depending on the scenario and how I feel at the time. ;D




Notes on the setting!

The event will be set in the Abraxis Sector:
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2hx4msi.jpg)

Located in central Ultima Segmentum and rimward of the Dalthus Sector, Abraxis is mostly frontier space, with a considerable number of worlds that have yet to be reclaimed or rediscovered by the Imperium. By and large, the sector's Imperial presence is concentrated within Sub-Sectors Abraxis and Zorya; Kauket, Achlys and Nyx remain outside of Imperial control, and Charun is subject to an Inquisitorial blockade following the investigation into the Arch Worlds phenomenon.

Koroneia, the planet on which the event will take place, is located in Sub-Sector Kauket, close to the Abraxis-Zorya boundary line (on the map, it's roughly between the final "s" in Sub-Sector Abraxis and the "H" in Howling Stars).

What will this mean for people wanting to use certain characters?

Characters from Dalthus will have absolutely no problem making the journey to Koroneia by way of either Loidis or the Borderworlds.

Characters from Carthax may have a slightly harder time, primarily because I'd like us not to bring the Arch Worlds into this (besides which, there's a blockade in the way). Having said that, if you want to use Carthaxian characters, you most definitely can, as the objective is to play games. Maybe they have an Abraxian counterpart?

Brand-new Abraxian characters, or Abraxian analogues of existing characters, are also encouraged at either scale. :)




On scale:

Obviously the intention is for this event to be a dual-scale affair. I'm aware that some people have a distinct preference for One Scale Only -- and that's fine as long as everyone can play nice with each other.

To that end, if you want to bring 28mm Only, that's fine.
If you want to bring 54mm Only, that's fine.
If you want to bring two different groups of characters -- one at 54mm, one at 28mm -- then that's great (bonus points if the two groups know each other!)
If, as I know Keravin and Kaled do, you have the same main character at both scales, with different sets of henchmen and operatives at different scales, then that's brilliant. And if anyone actually does that, then I will buy them the drink of their choice from Bugman's.
(http://i34.tinypic.com/2n8zkuh.jpg)




If you'd like to come along, please let me know, and tell me whether you'll be 28mm Only, 54mm Only, Dual Scale - Two Groups, or Dual Scale - One Group. :)
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites (working title)
Post by: Heroka Vendile on October 26, 2013, 03:20:56 PM
I'd probably only be able to play at 54mm, but would happily GM either scale.
That said, I cannot commit either way on the date for quite a while yet.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites (working title)
Post by: MarcoSkoll on October 26, 2013, 03:47:02 PM
QuoteCharacters from Carthax may have a harder time
I'm aware you might be thinking about the possibility of not dissuading people with a strict approach to galactic geography (well, stricter than GW normally seem to be, anyway), but I don't think the event will get much out of trying to restrict Carthaxian characters.

That's a lot of people who're basically being advised to not bring any of their 54mm collection unless they want to do something completely out of their own continuity as Inquisitor Bell "Rock" Rasomort or some other anagram. And that rather devalues a given game to me, not treating it as part of my characters' continuities.

I don't presently have a lot of reason to do 54mm versions of my Dalthan characters - there are a few 54mm Dalthan models, but the emphasis that needs to be applied there is "few". Creating such models would likely mean little use or lots of time away from "home".

I have however got plans for 28mm Carthaxian characters - one day there'll be a tiny Inquisitor Skoll and Gala's concept was based off 28mm (ish) models (and she will eventually have both scales of model).

Now, I'm not beyond creating Abraxian characters in both scales at some point. I've got some character/warband concepts I've had floating around my head for a long time - a Xanthite with a Slaaneshi daemonhost (based on a very weird idea I was given regarding the "chainmail bikini" concept) or the infamous Rogue Trader "Hotblack Desiato" - that aren't strictly tied to anywhere yet, so could potentially be Abraxians... but these are no guarantees.

~~~~~

As for the date, I have no current issue.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites (working title)
Post by: Koval on October 26, 2013, 04:10:30 PM
Quote from: MarcoSkoll on October 26, 2013, 03:47:02 PM
I'm aware you might be thinking about the possibility of not dissuading people with a strict approach to galactic geography (well, stricter than GW normally seem to be, anyway), but I don't think the event will get much out of trying to restrict Carthaxian characters.
Fair point. Given that the intent is not to put up barriers, I've altered that part of my post.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites (working title)
Post by: MarcoSkoll on October 27, 2013, 12:41:44 AM
<mrburns>Excellent.</mrburns>

Anyway, provisional yes from me at both scales. As for what characters - well, I'd like to be "fully into it" by doing something Abraxian, but I've also got way too many unfinished projects already...

... in short, we'll see.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites (working title)
Post by: Koval on October 27, 2013, 07:27:36 AM
Well, the Xanthite would be interesting, as that would A) give you a potential Abraxian and B) give you some connection to (or rivalry with) the aforementioned Slaanesh presence on Koroneia, but it's really up to you. Desiato would work, if you wanted to do something with him. Or maybe Virasson's gone on a sabbatical.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites (working title)
Post by: MarcoSkoll on October 27, 2013, 03:41:41 PM
Well, there are certainly a good few advantages to making that Xanthite Abraxian.

I'd originally envisioned the Slaaneshi Daemonhost as a 54mm model and would still like to do her that way, but the Dalthan events do have a shortage of truly radical Radicals.
Seeing as I don't generally come up with a lot of Radical concepts (at least, not extreme ones; I've done a couple of Recongregators, but of a type who are more 'willing to change where needed' than 'change for change's sake'), splitting the difference on one of the rare times I do have such an idea and being able to use them both ways wouldn't hurt.

The alternative as far as trying to bring matching sets of models would probably have to be Inquisitor Skoll. It's at least not completely illogical - the Ynys is after all an ex-smuggling vessel and heavily modified (if not necessarily wholly legally) for running blockades.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites (working title)
Post by: Koval on January 05, 2014, 09:06:22 AM
Morning folks,

At some point this week, I'll try and get in contact with WHW and see if I can get those tables booked. Once that's sorted, I'll be able to put the event info pack together. :)
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites (working title)
Post by: TheNephew on January 07, 2014, 05:22:18 PM
There's a reasonable chance I'll be able to make it to this.
And I'll bring the same/similar band in both scales, if I do.
I think I already posted something to this effect, but it'll serve to remind me as much as inform y'all, hopefully.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites (working title)
Post by: Koval on January 10, 2014, 08:20:04 PM
I phoned Warhammer World earlier -- they don't have any tables left for April 26th.

I suspect Battle Brothers needs more tables than I'd anticipated.

So the new tentative date is
May 3rd
for which I'll try to book tables when they start taking May bookings (which I'm told is the beginning of February).

If anyone has any additional suggestions (Keravin and Molotov, I'd be especially grateful for your input), then please feel free to chip in.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites (working title)
Post by: Cortez on January 10, 2014, 11:34:54 PM
May 3rd is fine with me.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites (working title)
Post by: MarcoSkoll on January 11, 2014, 09:16:16 AM
Should work for me too.

Still need to work on any models/characters though...
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites (working title)
Post by: Bloodpact on January 11, 2014, 10:09:31 PM
Following the excellent Blanchitsu articles in white dwarf im dangerously close to making a 28mm warband...
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites (working title)
Post by: Koval on January 12, 2014, 09:03:56 AM
Please do, that way, if you don't like 28mm, at least you can honestly turn round and say "well, I tried it". :)
Title: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: Koval on February 04, 2014, 10:20:15 AM
I've just got off the phone to Warhammer World, and I've booked tables for May 3rd.

THIS IS NOW HAPPENING.

I'll start putting together a briefing pack in the very near future -- please watch this space!
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: Cortez on February 04, 2014, 11:06:47 AM
ok. I'll put that date in my diary then.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: Koval on March 23, 2014, 08:30:36 AM
Cortez, Bloodpact, Holiad and Shannow, I don't have your email addresses, please could you send me them in a PM?
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: Heroka Vendile on March 28, 2014, 01:54:42 PM
'fraid that weekends no good for me, have fun!
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: Bloodpact on March 31, 2014, 09:18:43 PM
How many definites do we have so far for this?
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: greenstuff_gav on March 31, 2014, 09:30:17 PM
I'm going! :)
now which crew to take...
(http://buildyourimagination.co.uk/minis/conclavewinter12/crew.jpg)
(http://buildyourimagination.co.uk/minis/conclavewinter12/crew02.jpg)
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: Kaled on March 31, 2014, 10:22:23 PM
Sorry, I won't be there - I'm afraid I'm struggling to work up much enthusiasm for Inquisitor at the moment...
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: MarcoSkoll on April 01, 2014, 04:32:46 AM
I'm pretty definite for this one. I (should) already be up in Birmingham that weekend, which will make a journey to Nottingham on a railcard cost about tuppence ha'penny. Whether I'll have been organised enough to sort out some shiny new models is another matter...

Quote from: Kaled on March 31, 2014, 10:22:23 PM
Sorry, I won't be there - I'm afraid I'm struggling to work up much enthusiasm for Inquisitor at the moment...
I have a music playlist for moments like that.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: Necris on April 15, 2014, 10:35:17 AM
I'm not going to make this one, I've lost the drive to travel to Nottingham for games
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: MarcoSkoll on April 15, 2014, 05:13:46 PM
I have to add a qualifier myself.

While I'm not going to go into details publicly, we're dealing with a very serious family crisis.
I fully hope to still make it to the event, but there is a high probability I will have to excuse myself from bringing along shiny new models as I would like to.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: greenstuff_gav on April 15, 2014, 11:10:25 PM
i'm going!
hopefully havea couplea guys in the car too but if not will still be me!
may have to pack some 40k just in case noone else shows and hope for a PUG!
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: TallulahBelle on April 17, 2014, 02:11:46 AM
Umr wry this event would an inquisitor newbie who has a war band but hasn't really played be a problem? I don't have the band in 28mm yet as the main model was out of stock in 28 bit in stock in 54.

My main 2 are the final figures but the other members 2-3 are currently place holders till the builds of who I want are finished. I will be putting up a rules thread for people's thoughts in the next few days.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: MarcoSkoll on April 17, 2014, 03:34:34 AM
Inexperienced players are not a problem. We always have at least a couple of total rules nerds on hand who can help handle the specifics of modifiers and effects, so as long as you have at least a loose knowledge of the basics.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: greenstuff_gav on April 17, 2014, 06:40:32 AM
what Marco said; at The Eramus Affair we had two players who'd never played before and everyone had a good time :)
thankfully with inquisitor not knowing rules isn't a handicap due to its more RPG aspects!
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: TallulahBelle on April 17, 2014, 11:49:33 AM
Is the lack of my 28mm band an issue? The models are either oos or not past rendering yet as it stands for my central character.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: Koval on April 17, 2014, 02:24:27 PM
It's not an issue at all, in fact if you want to play at only one scale that's always been an option :-)
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: Cortez on April 17, 2014, 02:51:33 PM
I am definitely still coming. Although several of the models I'm planning on bringing are still unpainted. Maybe I'll have time to get started this weekend instead of painting them the day before like usual.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: krenshar on April 17, 2014, 07:50:22 PM
I'll be there.  Granted, every time I've said this previously, I've then had to bow out.  But train ticket is bought, I've got 54mm and painting is underway on an allied 28mm set.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: MarcoSkoll on April 18, 2014, 01:01:50 AM
Hoo boy. Fortunately I was paying attention earlier today, as it wouldn't be great to book tickets out of St Pancras when I can't get to Euston because of a line closure south of home on May Day weekend.

Fortunately, the line north seems to be fine that weekend - although not being able to go through Watford Junction means I won't be able to get a train out of Nottingham any later than 8. That's not normally a problem though, it seems most people make their excuses by then anyway.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: Bloodpact on May 01, 2014, 09:40:34 PM
Sorry its a bit last minute, but im afraid im gonna have to drop out of this one. Got my 28mm warband almost done and everything!
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: Koval on May 02, 2014, 10:04:52 AM
Owing to work related shenanigans and the fact that I have to move at very short notice, I've arranged for Marco to be the new Head GM -- this event is still going ahead but it's looking ever more likely I won't be attending. :(
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: Myriad on May 02, 2014, 12:12:08 PM
Cool, I can still remember my password.  Holiad is attending, and is dragging myself out of exile in North Yorkshire  :).
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: MarcoSkoll on May 02, 2014, 12:59:14 PM
I can also reassure you all the event is still going ahead - I'm not expecting it to be a massive affair with quite as many drop-outs as have been announced, but there should be enough of us to have some fun regardless.

There'll be some shiny toys too - I've managed to add a character to Lady Riemann's group*, I've arranged for Gav to bring along his 28mm Exodite riders and my 54mm Wraithguard has found a friend.

* While I had really hoped to bring along a dual scale Xanthite to really get behind the event, I'm going to be split between Lady Riemann and Inquisitrix Corvus, should I find the opportunity to play.

To cut a long story short, we've had to deal with a sick dog for the last few weeks. And to translate "a sick dog", I mean "a labrador with abominal septic shock caused by peritonitis - extreme internal inflammation, a hugely elevated heart rate, low blood pressure, multiple organ failures and blood coagulation rates so low as to be off the test scales, all complicated by the early stages of pneumonia".

Fortunately, a combination of timeliness, his previous state of health, some of the most skilled vets in the country, a very good insurance policy and a helluva lot of luck defeated the dismally low survival rate normally associated with such things and thus he is back at home and very much alive, (although still due for months of recovery time) but I've been a bit too busy to get on with much modelling.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: Cortez on May 02, 2014, 05:35:01 PM
Good I was starting to get worried that everyone was going to be unavailable.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: greenstuff_gav on May 02, 2014, 06:28:08 PM
i was worried it'd end up like the last day; myself and one other person!
especially as i've hit the negative numbers with my bank account to put fuel into the car to go :P

but that does confirm i will be there; just gotta pack my case, paint 2 more exodites and dig out some glue to take :)
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: MarcoSkoll on May 02, 2014, 07:07:54 PM
At the moment, I'm more starting to get worried that I may have more players than I'm actually prepared for...
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: Cortez on May 02, 2014, 10:45:05 PM
Well I've managed to finish two of the models I was planning to bring, looks like I'll be making up the numbers from one of my Necromunda gangs  :P
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: TallulahBelle on May 03, 2014, 06:43:20 AM
I'm on my way having a fraking nightmare grabbed the wrong case have one of my warning and my nox mooks box I'm working on NOT my inquisitor arse o have profiles for the three one model hasn't been posted yet another is at home and yeah.... stressful.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: krenshar on May 03, 2014, 09:46:06 AM
Delayed but not deterred, I'll be with you all by 11am. I also have a novice along for the ride if there proves to be room.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: greenstuff_gav on May 03, 2014, 10:29:47 PM
well thanks to Marco for running today (especially on short notice!), Cortez, Holiad, Myriad and the first-timers Jedi and Krenshar (and SO)!
i had fun games and must apologise for my lack of focus during the finale; a long week and lack of sleep hampered me!

as my PC is still dead i'll have to dig my laptop out tomorrow and get some pictures uploaded! :)
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: Cortez on May 03, 2014, 10:47:58 PM
Big thanks to Marco for stepping up and running the event. I really enjoyed it especially the final battle that got a bit chaotic and was probably in hindsight just a bit over the top. I hope everyone else enjoyed the day too.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rdneeb
Post by: TallulahBelle on May 03, 2014, 11:14:36 PM
Beeble bloop blaaa

Only just got in brain fried late trains lost models and stress didnt stop this event from rocking ok so next time finished warband all your worm and modelling made me feel a letdown on that score but its inspiration for nexttime. Having a 28mm version of my warband is also a must along with more dice more clear character sheets and gulp maybe even gming a game!!!
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: MarcoSkoll on May 04, 2014, 02:02:44 AM
Ho-lee crap, trying to fit all six players into just the core finale scenario was hard work.
Trying to maintain enough focus to have fifty models on one table (12 PCs, 37 NPCs and a Rhino*) and keep track of two players declaring and rolling actions simultaneously was a major mental workout.
*I don't think I've previously dealt with more than 28 models on one table - the 7 PCs, 20 NPCs and the Valk I had on the main table of "The Saint" finale (although across all four tables of that game, there were 50 models total).

Well, here's hoping you guys put up with my rough-around-the-edges attempt to hurriedly pick up the pieces of Koval's event, and you'll probably hear more out of me tomorrow. Quite possibly rather late tomorrow.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: greenstuff_gav on May 04, 2014, 05:14:36 PM
no write-up, will try to get one thrown together, but PIIIICS (http://buildyourimagination.co.uk/minis/conclavesummer14.php)!
i couldn't remember character names but if anyone wants to provide names for the crews that'd help!
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: MarcoSkoll on May 05, 2014, 02:51:59 AM
I too offer pictures (https://www.flickr.com/photos/marcoskoll/sets/72157644103161639/#).

To give those who weren't there an idea of what was going on, a quick summary is that the players managed to trace and destroy one of the major supply lines of the local void pirates, uncover the members of the local Imperial Guard who were secretly reporting to these thieves* and then foil the void pirates' attempts to excavate and steal a working webway gate - something that managed to avert the arrival of Biel-Tan reinforcements to the struggle for Port Ulysses and Koroneia.

* The Imperial Guard traitors was something of a change to Koval's original plot, but it nicely linked two of the scenario concepts he'd sent me the notes for and it fitted with the NPCs I knew would be available, so I decided to make some changes.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: Heroka Vendile on May 05, 2014, 01:14:00 PM
Well those pics of the finale certainly help explain the "fifty models" situation!
Love the scale shot of the 3 rhinos, would've been good if you'd also sat them on top of each other as well the show the real size difference.

Excellent use of that big game board as well by the way.
All reminds me just how long it's been since I last had a game!
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: greenstuff_gav on May 05, 2014, 01:55:01 PM
if only we had marines & epic scale guys!
(http://buildyourimagination.co.uk/minis/conclavesummer14/images/00-dual-scale.jpg)

i was thinking of running Lachesis in August at WHWorld but depends on how viable a couple of people think it is and i'll find out tomorrow if i'm available then!
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: Cortez on May 05, 2014, 03:56:20 PM
I'd be interested in coming. I'm rarely busy in August.

One question though, are we still planning on running the IGT this year? If so did we ever decide on a date?

I can't find my epic Rhino's for the photo though. I found some marines and Eldar though. It's starting to look very tempting to try and make an epic scaled Inquisitor warband especially as I've been sculpting some epic scaled stuff lately.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: Holiad on May 05, 2014, 05:34:29 PM
Yeah, the final game got a bit chaotic, despite a rapid decline in the number of guardsmen, which have probably now been declared an endangered species due to our combined efforts. My favourite incident would have to be the lone survivor from the brave group of defenders which got torn through by a mutant wielding a power claw with extreme prejudice, who regained consciousness just in time to be picked up and fed on by a vampiric navigator taking advantage of the subsequent gap!

My own loose warband, the one mislabelled as 'heretics', would be-
Uncharacteristically in the lead is J-Ken, a corrupt munitorum official of great resource and sagacity, but little courage.
Behind him and to the left, the ex-puritan acolyte Crafanc, previously known as Racol, still loyal to his principles despite certain unfortunate circumstances that have left him estranged from his former colleagues.
Back centre would be Kaeirnfel, an unusually short, fierce, and well-armed mercenary, who would be really scary if he could actually hit anyone with that stormbolter.
Finally, Spare Parts, not quite a shining example of adeptus mechanicus craftsmanship, but possessed of a certain practicality. That's right, the servitor is the only member of my warband with a second name.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: MarcoSkoll on May 05, 2014, 07:46:07 PM
Quote from: Heroka Vendile on May 05, 2014, 01:14:00 PMWell those pics of the finale certainly help explain the "fifty models" situation!
Excellent use of that big game board as well by the way.
Well, we couldn't not go a bit nuts with a 12'x6' at our disposal.

Gav had Khisanith sniping guardsmen off the front gates, including the Missile launcher team I was hoping might make a dent in the Rhino - which Cortez had brought along (having been trying to repair it at the end of the previous game) and was using as first a mobile bunker/cover and then an unmanned battering ram to try and knock the webway gate down.

Well, it got to the main gates, but that was when the Wraithguard decided to get there - and my rules for distort weapons don't mess around, with the wraithcannon dealing an immediate crippled result to the right track. So then the thing veered into the nearby ammo dump...

So, after we work out where it finally lands, jediknight then turns up and throws a satchel charge at incoming reinforcements and Cortez's techpriest hacks into one of the defence turrets...

And on the other flank, Myriad's Exodite dodged past the void pirates before Holiad's mutant came in and ripped most of them in half... and krenshar tends to end up unfortunately on the receiving end of a lot of the return fire that actually manages to hit!

Eventually, some people were trying to destroy the webway gate, a couple were trying to activate it - but ultimately, between a fair few angry blows, the gate was collapsed and its connection to the webway severed. For now, at least...

Quote from: Cortez on May 05, 2014, 03:56:20 PMOne question though, are we still planning on running the IGT this year? If so did we ever decide on a date?
I would still like to see the IGT run this year, and my offer of running it stands.

The problem, however, is that interest in events is pretty low at the moment, so I'm not sure whether it's the right time to commit to a date.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: TallulahBelle on May 05, 2014, 11:30:57 PM
Belle achieved her objectives without getting anyone killed and managed to get rid of the void pirates so that's a win. Pics of a finished belle will appear soon she has been found!!! And there will be a 28mm copy of the band as well I hope.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: krenshar on May 14, 2014, 07:01:17 PM
Belated thanks to everyone for making me feel so welcome at my first Conclave event; particularly for the lending of dice, commiserating over my lousy action rolls and tolerating my sleep-starved befuddlement.  Especial thanks to Marco for running and having blank character sheets on hand after my own printer died a death.  My hand-scrawled versions would not have lasted the day.

I'm looking forward to the next event, be it an IGT or another campaign day.  When I shall be sure to a) remember my own gear, b) sleep the night before and c) recall that changing stance is a free action.  That way maybe I'll achieve more than advancing a foot and wounding a single void-pirate, as I think was the case in the finale!
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: MarcoSkoll on May 15, 2014, 04:22:01 AM
Yes, well, any wise event organiser (even if they themselves are sleep-deprived) packs spare character sheets, dice, tape measures and writing implements, because someone will have forgotten at least one of the above.

That said, I really need to do update my eventing check-list, as I keep going back to a ratty old one that I always doubt is actually complete (which is often why I don't sleep well, worrying about having forgotten something).

Quoterecall that changing stance is a free action.
I often tend to forget that and treat it as a separate action as well. To be honest, there's lots of things I forget about prone - things like prone characters halving the number of hits they take from blast weapons. Although I'm not actually sure how often that one comes up.
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: Heroka Vendile on May 15, 2014, 01:10:31 PM
out of interest, with the numbers you had, just how "dual scale" did the event actually turn out?
Title: Re: 2014 Dual Scale Spring Event -- Ancient Rites -- WHW, May 3rd
Post by: MarcoSkoll on May 15, 2014, 02:33:30 PM
To be completely honest, it didn't. A couple of people either didn't have their 28mm ready, had mislaid it or hadn't really finished it yet, so with only six people total, there weren't a lot of available match-ups that could have worked around it, so without the pressure of anybody being particularly fussed about playing at 28mm, it didn't happen.

Also, beyond talking with Gav about his Exodite Riders, the very short notice I took the event over at hadn't given me the time to have many fun 28mm toys for players to get excited about - 28mm Cadians I'd grabbed from a box of things I'd badly painted ten years ago are a less unique opportunity than playing with things like my Rhino and Gav's NPC guard.