The Conclave

The Ordos Majoris - Hobby, Painting and Modelling => The Dark Millennium => Topic started by: Metellus on June 24, 2010, 02:15:26 PM

Title: Non-living daemonhosts
Post by: Metellus on June 24, 2010, 02:15:26 PM
Is it possible for a higher-level daemon such as a Herald to be bound to something unwarded and rather small? One of my campaign ideas is centered around a Tzeemtchian Herald whose binding to a human went wrong and instead was bound into a nearby silverware implement (the summoning was done by a noble cult directly after a feast; hence the presence of the silverware). Would a daemon be able to break free of an implement with no inscribed wardings etc (bearing in mind the binding nature of the ritual to start with), or would it simply be stuck there until release? Furthermore, due to the aforementioned lack of binding on the implement itself, would the Herald's ability to affect things in the material plane be increased (e.g; the converse of the decrease in
power of Cherubael in Eisenhorn after extra binding was inscribed onto the host body itself)?
Title: Re: Non-living daemonhosts
Post by: Kaled on June 24, 2010, 02:21:53 PM
If there are no bindings on the implement, then how is the daemon bound to it? It might inhabit it, but it wouldn't be bound as, as you say, there are no bindings...
Title: Re: Non-living daemonhosts
Post by: TheNephew on June 24, 2010, 02:28:53 PM
I can't quite see any daemon, least of all a Herald, choosing to go for the forks rather than one of the cultists or at least a tasteful pendant or knife...

I would've thought the more likely outcome is that either it manifests enough to arrange it's inhabitance in something suitable, or it mindrapes someone convenient and moves in.

If you need a Herald inhabiting an object as a plot device, then I thin there are more plausible ways of doing it.
Title: Re: Non-living daemonhosts
Post by: Metellus on June 24, 2010, 02:41:57 PM
If there are no bindings on the implement, then how is the daemon bound to it? It might inhabit it, but it wouldn't be bound as, as you say, there are no bindings...
The binding was performed with quite a lot of force. My thoughts on this was that the ritual would've provided the majority of binding force, with the wardings on the host serving as a way of keeping it from affecting the physical world. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

I can't quite see any daemon, least of all a Herald, choosing to go for the forks rather than one of the cultists or at least a tasteful pendant or knife...

I would've thought the more likely outcome is that either it manifests enough to arrange it's inhabitance in something suitable, or it mindrapes someone convenient and moves in.

If you need a Herald inhabiting an object as a plot device, then I thin there are more plausible ways of doing it.
It didn't have much of a choice, seeing as most of the cultists were dead by this point (Arbite raids have a nasty frequency of disrupting summonings like that) and its potential host wasn't completely prepared for the necessary link to the Warp that I assume is created by the summoning ritual; so it was a choice between jump into the closest thing without a soul to resist it and hope for a chance to possess a later host (which I am definitely planning for it to do at the first opportunity) or have to wait for another cult to learn of its existence, how to summon it and then manage to perform the ritual all over again. That said, I'd like to hear some of these more plausible ways, seeing as I've never created a campaign before and could use some advice on doing it (yes, I've looked at all the PDFs, before anyone asks - they're very good, reading, and hats off to Marco for hosting them).
And it was either the fork, or the half-eaten grox rump steak.
Title: Re: Non-living daemonhosts
Post by: MarcoSkoll on June 24, 2010, 02:48:08 PM
Here's another idea... perhaps it's unknowingly warded.

Just off the top of my head - it's a silver goblet with a wild array of seemingly random swirls around the rim that unwittingly, but surprisingly closely, replicate the daemon's true name in the little known script of the K'nil tomes, exceptionally powerful ancient texts with, it is said, the power to bind even gods...

Consequently, the "warding" on the goblet was inadvertently far stronger than the clumsy and incomplete wards the noble cult had applied to their intended victim, and the daemon was unintentionally drawn to the cup instead.
However, the wards are imperfect, and even if they were flawless, the goblet itself is only mundane silver and cannot indefinitely contain such a powerful being...
Title: Re: Non-living daemonhosts
Post by: Metellus on June 24, 2010, 02:50:50 PM
Now this idea, I very much like. Even if I have to change the campaign so the concept doesn't contain the reference that gave me the idea, I think it'll work. Thanks very much for that :)
Title: Re: Non-living daemonhosts
Post by: Vladimir on June 24, 2010, 04:34:26 PM
An old curio in the room turns out to be an arcane item from an a pre-imperial culture. Demon is naturally drawn to it (it has arcane doo-dads!) and gets trapped. Over time, of course, the silverware will be warped and modified by the deamon's presence.
Title: Re: Non-living daemonhosts
Post by: Kaled on June 24, 2010, 05:17:46 PM
Binding a daemon into a host is essentially a two stage process.  First you apply the bindings to the host body - incribing wards, locking on the sanctified chains etc - a process that takes considerable time.  Second, you summon the daemon into the host body - again this is an involved process and can take some time.  The summoning ritual compels the daemon to appear, it is the bindings that trap it in a host body.  So if the daemon has been summoned, but the bindings have been destroyed (when the cultists were killed) then you'd likely have an unbound daemonhost who having narrowly escaped the torment of being bound to another's will is probably going to slaughter anyone he encounters and escape back into the warp.  If the daemon does want to remain in the mortal realm, it's more likely to just possess someone (or something) rather than being bound to it.
Title: Re: Non-living daemonhosts
Post by: DapperAnarchist on June 24, 2010, 07:26:41 PM
I don't quite buy this "All Daemonhosts which are Unbound are violent frenzied killers" thing you find in many sources. Surely a Tzeentchian Daemon could have patience, wait, utilise Materium resources to fight its opponents...
Title: Re: Non-living daemonhosts
Post by: Swarbie on June 25, 2010, 12:53:21 PM
And, of course, there is the fact that many daemons are strangely allergic to silver and other "pure" metals.

What agony would it be to be forced to inhabit an object made of a material that can burn your very essence . . .

Quite a suitable punishment for such a vile and blasphemous being, if you ask me.
Title: Re: Non-living daemonhosts
Post by: Vladimir on June 26, 2010, 01:07:35 PM
What an unbound daemonhost does depends on it's intelligence and which god (if any) it follows. A low intelligence deamon (of any god) such as a screamer or flesh hound will simply wreak as much havoc in the short term as possible. More intelligent daemons such as horrors or plaguebearers will react with slightly more cunning- quite possibly trying to find a way to summon more of their brethren or else spread fear, plague or discontent. The most powerful daemons will vary their actions most- a greater daemon of tzeench or slaanesh will probably hide and try to gain followers and cultists, while a greater daemon of khorne will probably try to find the most worthy opponent to engage.
Remember, though, each daemon is unique and will react to the situation differently.
Title: Re: Non-living daemonhosts
Post by: Dexter on August 11, 2010, 06:14:39 AM
It is my understanding that the term "daemonhost" specifically refers to a daemon that has been bound into a living body.  However, that isn't to say that living bodies are the only things daemons can be bound to.  Daemons get bound to weapons, vehicles, armor, books, and all sorts of random things all throughout the 40k fluff. 
Title: Re: Non-living daemonhosts
Post by: Jamas Orian on August 26, 2010, 11:04:17 PM
And, of course, there is the fact that many daemons are strangely allergic to silver and other "pure" metals.

What agony would it be to be forced to inhabit an object made of a material that can burn your very essence . . .

Quite a suitable punishment for such a vile and blasphemous being, if you ask me.

^so much potential *insert the sound of an evil grin here*
Title: Re: Non-living daemonhosts
Post by: DapperAnarchist on August 26, 2010, 11:12:16 PM
Daemons get bound to weapons, vehicles, armor, books, and all sorts of random things all throughout the 40k fluff. 

Desks (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Grey_Slayers), say? Unfortunately, that entry doesn't mention the daemon desk, but there you go...