The Conclave

The Ordos Majoris - Hobby, Painting and Modelling => Inquisitor Game Discussion => Topic started by: Elva on July 30, 2010, 11:32:28 PM

Title: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Elva on July 30, 2010, 11:32:28 PM
Hehe, I've been working on her for ages it seems now. I think I've got two possible backstories that are better than some of my previous attempts.

http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=929.0

I sort of placed it in the wrong section ^^' , so I'm posting the link above. I look forward to hearing your thoughts. I'll get around to the stats later, once I have a  good, solid background.
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Elva on August 17, 2010, 12:16:19 AM
Here's a sketch, the model is in a bit of a different position and the heads a bit big, but other than that, its Elva herself  ;D. Shannow told me there was a thread to post sketches on, but I had no idea where to look, so its up here for now. Love to hear your comments and thoughts.
(Note, the ears are for a different game, I'm using the model for a D20 future campaign as well)
(http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af293/Entirion/fggfdgfdfd.jpg)
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Zakkeg on August 17, 2010, 10:37:44 AM
...

Pointy ears?

Really?
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Elva on August 17, 2010, 04:59:46 PM
Haha, like I said, I'm using the model that I based the sketch off of for d20 future as well. But in Inquisitor she's as human as they come :P, at least ear wise hehe. Plus I'm not such a big a fan of drawing ears that aren't pointy, not quite sure why, but its just who I am  :)

Off the topic of ears though, I will be posting her miniature asap.
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: RobSkib on August 17, 2010, 09:52:52 PM
(Aside from the pointy ears) She looks very happy and 'clean' - two words I don't associate with 40k very much. I'd be interested to see where you take this concept, it definitely has potential. But yeah - lose the ears :)
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Elva on August 17, 2010, 11:04:25 PM
Don't worry, the ears won't make an appearance in Inquisitor, she looks elfish enough, and probably wouldn't end up an inquisitor if she could be mistaken for an Eldar.
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Elva on August 20, 2010, 09:14:08 PM
Did some more sketches, these are pretty rough since I didn't go over them with a 4b pencil yet, but they look pretty spiffy, and will even more when I go over them, I'm just a bit nervous as it tends to smear the details if I'm not really careful, and pen is less forgiving  :-\ My technical drawings aren't as good as I'd like them to be, but I'm slwoly chipping away and practicing. Ironically, they look better when someone is holding them  ???

Rough concept sketch of Elva's new model, which I will post as soon as I get some paint on it.
(http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af293/Entirion/dsas2.jpg)

A side shot I did awhile back, its one of my best, now only if I could be more consistent... 
(http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af293/Entirion/dfddfsa.jpg)
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Jamas Orian on August 20, 2010, 10:03:16 PM
Very cool!

Although she is looking very at ease in her pose there. Is she in the company of friends?
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Elva on August 20, 2010, 10:17:13 PM
Thanks ;D I'm happy to receive a complement from such a talented artist as yourself.

Hehe, possibly. She tends to smile a lot, as she takes delight when her plans and strategies come to fruition and the enemy falls for the trap. It also is a psychological thing to make her them second guess themselves in trying to figure out what she has concocted in her mind. She's a bit easy going as well, though that could just be another one of her mind war tactics  ;)
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Elva on August 28, 2010, 01:34:18 AM
I'm having issues coming up with her background. I know what she's like, I've written it down and I'm pretty happy with it. However, every time I sit down to write her history, nothing decent comes out and its getting frustrating. I just can't get any good ideas of where she is from, and the events that got her where she is today. Does anyone know any good techniques for smiting this terrible occurrence?

Oh and here's what I have so far. Feedback would be great.

Elva Bullen
Ordo Xenos
Inquisitor

Personality: Elva is one of the brightest tacticians of her day, however like many before her, she has been known to make errors that cost her dearly, though she often finds a way to bounce back. She is quick and decisive in her thought process, coming up with plans in a matter of seconds to minutes depending on the complexity.

She loves the thrill of an enemy falling for a cleverly planned trap, and watching their destruction unfold. She cares about her charges, making sure they are well equipped and used to their fullest extent and survival rate. They are no good to her dead, and are comrades in arms fighting for mankind.

She respects her foes, knowing that she would most likely do what they do if she were in their situation. Elva despises it when allegiances are not black and white, hating to deal with neutral parties and sympathizers, it makes things overly complicated but can be necessary at times.

Beliefs: Terra is the human home world, and therefore has the right to govern all of humankind. The Lords of Terra may be a bit strict in their enforced creed, however that is why Elva puts herself in harm's way to utilize tools and strategic options other servants of the Imperium would hesitate to consider. She has sacrificed her purity for the greater good of humanity, and they had better appreciate it.

Physical Description and Combat Notes

Elva stands well above most. She is six foot four and has a skinny, yet curvy figure, however it is rarely seen under her armour, fatigues and great coat which she wears almost exclusively. She has short, messy blonde hair and steel blue eyes which can pierce ones soul, some even say they can see into the warp. Her great coat is of Praetorian origin, as she is a strong admirer of their discipline and effectiveness on the field of combat.

She carries a personalized las rifle with a shot gun attachment colourfully known as "The Room Clearer". She also conceals a few grenades, usually frag, however she will have a halucinagin or two if she can help it. Elva's sword is said to be of Eldar origin, as it never wears or ages and can cut through most metals, though any spirit stones or markings have long since vanished. She is an avid user of plasma technology, favoring only las over it for reliability.

Alias and nickname wise I'm considering going along the lines of a Valkeyire theme, Norse mythology really inspires me, probably because I'm half Danish :P
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Jamas Orian on August 28, 2010, 12:08:36 PM
I like the brief you've just given for her there. I really ought to extrapolate on Orian's weaponry in a similar manner.

May I present to you the following:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20010112e
http://www.seventhsanctum.com/generate.php?Genname=quickchar
http://generating.strolen.com/gen/npc.html
http://generating.strolen.com/gen/charback.html

These are extremely useful tools for instantly generating lots and lots of background ideas.

Edit: Also, her nose needs to be pointier
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Elva on August 28, 2010, 02:55:29 PM
Thanks, I'll be sure to make use of those tools to their fullest extent. Though, I might make a few changes to her personality, I want to make her more anti heroish.

You really think? I was trying to avoid the pointy nose, as my style is already very manga influenced. But I'll keep that in mind for next time :)
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Elva on August 29, 2010, 03:18:35 AM
Sorry for the double post, but I did another sketch, its much better, even though I decided to do it in manga style, but it was a nice break and it came out nicely, since I focused less on the face and more on the rest of the body. Sorry about the scanner, my new sketch book is rather large and it was hard to fit. Same basic design as the last one, which I'm probably going to stick with. Hopefully I can come up with a decent backstory and persona to go with it :P

(http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af293/Entirion/Elva.jpg)
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Jamas Orian on August 30, 2010, 03:29:07 PM
Very nice pose. I do like the expression as well!

If I may offer further feedback, her left boob is accentuated too much and starts from the wrong place. Rather than try to explain what I mean, I've knocked up a super quick visual explanation: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/asteconn/inq/untitled-1.jpg (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/asteconn/inq/untitled-1.jpg)

From the images of her that I have seen so far, the personality that she projects is a puritan leaning (but not frothing at the mouth monodominance) outlook and a very by-the-book sort. Quite young looking too.
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Elva on August 30, 2010, 10:44:57 PM
The funny thing is, I've done some more sketches, and they've improved at an astounding rate. I find the more I do, the better I get. But I'm quite happy to have gone back to manga style, especially my own translation of Ushiara's(can't recall the exact spelling of his name, but he's a bloody brilliant mangaka). Sadly, I haven't yet done an Inquisitor sketch with my new found skill, so far mostly D&D characters and a Napoleonic redcoat, but it'll be just the inspiration I need to continue my sketching spree. I also learned a great deal from this particular picture, mostly with hands and technical drawings with perspective. It still needs work but I'm well on my way. Thanks for the complements as well, I know not many people take manga seriously unless its in Japan.

Hehe, I was aiming for slightly radical, but her heart is relatively puritan, though her methods are debatable. However, I was thinking she'd be more trusting of the Eldar, since they are both of humanoid nature and she would draw similarities between the two races. Otherwise, unless a Xeno gives a damn good reason for not getting a las round to the face, she's anti alien.

Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Jamas Orian on August 30, 2010, 11:16:05 PM
You mean the ask questions first, shoot later sort?

Even if she did wantonly cavort with Xenos, she'd be very unwise not to keep them on a very short leash.
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Elva on August 30, 2010, 11:22:30 PM
Hehe, she's not that impulsive, more like look for an excuse to shoot, then go on a genocide.

Ya, I'm actually going to put an Eldar in her warband now, thanks to inspiration I got from you posting that model. I just got to get down to justifying it and deciding whether they're gonna be a ranger or pirate.
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Jamas Orian on August 30, 2010, 11:42:30 PM
No1 H3r3 is probably the go-to person for anything related to Eldar. Marco Skoll has some Eldar PDFs in his hostingy thing somewhere too.

Here's the bit that concerns justifying the presence of an Eldar:

THE QUEST
The Eldar is on a personal quest, and needs
something, be it a piece of information, access
to an ancient library or other resource, or even
a priceless artefact, and the Inquisitor has the
wherewithal to provide this. The canny
Inquisitor is quick to strike a deal; the
servitude of the powerful and capable Eldar in
exchange for what he seeks.

A COMMON GOAL
The Eldar has sworn to accomplish the same
goal as the Inquisitor and his warrior band, be
it bringing down a rival Inquisitor, furthering a
particular political faction, quashing a
rebellion that could spill over to other planets
in the system, etc. For the time being at least,
it makes sense for the Eldar and the Inquisitor
to tolerate each other and work together
rather than against each other.

TRUST NOT THE ALIEN
The Eldar character wishes to assassinate a
high-standing member of the Inquisition, and
has taken the employ of a radical Inquisitor in
the hope of learning protocol and ultimately
gaining a chance to assassinate his true target
through the oblivious actions of his 'master'.
This can be a great one to play if you are the
Gamesmaster, provided you and the player
with the Eldar character do not give too much
away with sly winks over the tabletop...

THE GREAT ENEMY
The Eldar work ceaselessly to combat Chaos,
especially the works of Slaanesh, in whose
creation they played a major part. This is a real
gift for Gamesmasters: any time the players
come up against the vile machinations of
Chaos, you have a ready made excuse to
introduce an Eldar into the game. Think about
a scenario such as having an Eldar sniper take
his shot in the nick of time to pull a captured
Inquisitor's fat out of the fire moments before
he is sacrificed to some unholy god. As to his
motivations, well, that's up to the players to
discover.

FUTURE PERFECT
Many Eldar can see the complex paths that the
future may take, and often despatch their
forces in order to guide the future along a
particular path. In this way, a small application
of force in the right place at the right time can
stop a war that would kill hundreds of Eldar,
or allow the forces of Chaos to gain a foothold
on an innocent world. The Eldar character is
an agent of a Farseer, and has been instructed
either to promote or halt a certain chain of
events. Naturally, the Inquisitor is at the centre
of these events, and perhaps he himself has a
certain part to play if the future is to take the
correct path.

THE DEBT
It is not unheard of for the Eldar to come to
the aid of Humanity in times of need, and vice
versa. The Eldar can be very honourable at
times, and despite holding Humanity in
contempt, they will generally fulfil an oath
sworn to an individual or organisation even if
the debt was incurred by one of their
forefathers. Likewise, if an Eldar line has in the
past provided a major service for a human
organisation, an ancestor of the Eldar may well
call in the debt, and will take a very dim view
of any who intend to renege upon their
obligations. If you use this rationale, it is
important to ascertain just what the debt is,
and also what criteria the debtor must fulfil to
cancel it forever.
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: MarcoSkoll on August 30, 2010, 11:55:10 PM
Be very wary of using Eldar in Inquisitor.

Firstly, they're inhumanly skilled. Faster, more dexterous, and even a bit tougher than humans (no, this is not a mistake - 40k is one of the rare settings where the "Elf" archetype is not horribly frail.) Take an above average human, and they'd probably lose out against a below par Eldar. In short, they're very powerful characters on the table.

Secondly, they're also inhuman in mindset. They're often very misinterpreted in fiction and roleplays. If you do include an Eldar, you need to explain very carefully why they're tolerating humans at all and why they're even considering working with them. (See Jamas' post above.)

EDIT: Actually, with Eldar, if you're not playing "The Chessmaster" (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheChessmaster) aspect up to eleven, then you're probably cheating yourself.
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Jamas Orian on August 31, 2010, 12:08:52 AM
From what I understand from the information that I've just posted - having an Eldar helping you is very situational. In a short campaign (a couple of games maybe), it shouldn't be too much of an issue, but on a longer running campaign, you'd be just as likely to come up against the same Eldar as you would fighting with them.
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: MarcoSkoll on August 31, 2010, 12:29:16 AM
Pretty much, although some situations could justify a longer "stay" with the Inquisitor. For example, if there's some role that the Inquisitor is supposed to fulfil in a decade or so, an Eldar might make regular visits to keep nudging the Inquisitor in the right direction.
However, given the general hatred the Eldar have for humans (and frankly, most other species in the galaxy - the Eldar are incredibly racist), it would probably only happen intermittently - they wouldn't spend time around the Inquisitor except when it was actually necessary.

The upside to this is that it means there's a good excuse for not fielding such a powerful model on a regular basis - they'd really only turn up at VERY key moments... which would generally coincide nicely with the more "powerful" scenarios.

I use similar reasoning with Frost (very dangerous assassin/mercenary type, although completely human), except in this case, the reasoning is usually the other way around - it's that Marco is wary enough of Frost that he usually doesn't have her around unless he actually needs to.
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Elva on August 31, 2010, 12:35:31 AM
Well, I'm going to have a long hard thinking session about it. I did come up with the Q'orl/pipe idea, so I should be able to figure something out.

Well, balance wise, it'll be nice to have an edge, the people who I play with tend to go with some pretty nasty character designs, I'm mostly afraid of the acro-flagelant one of them promised to take. But the main reason why I'm taking one is because I like the eldar, and Elva is pretty tolerant of them, which is all the justification I need(as long as I can justify why they're there in the first place  :P).

The mindset I'll have to read up on. But I think if I make a few notes that I can take to each session, I can play the character relatively effective. In fact, I'd be happy to hear what you know.

I have the sons of Khaine PDF as well, so I'll go over that as well while I do my brainstorming session.

Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Elva on August 31, 2010, 01:10:14 AM
Sorry for the double post, but after thoroughly going through Jamas's post with the reasons for an Eldar in a campaign, a couple thoughts occurred to me. One, since Elva is particularly sympathetic towards the Eldar(seeing them as more similar than different, and having several common enemies), she would easily help out a craftworld in need. Though to cover her tracks and since she is one to utilize any advantage given, she'd call in a debt. There is also the fact that it could give a chance to smooth over relations, at least in her mind.

Idea number two, Elva is cunning and resourceful, however, when it comes to the Eldar, her guard is let down due to her fascination with every aspect of them. A wise Farseer or other Eldar leader would probably take advantage of this and probably manipulate her to their will, though she'd probably still help out if she knew with a bit of coaxing. Enter the Eldar character(work in progress) who is sent to keep an eye on her and make sure she succeeds in completing the goals set out for her.

Sound too far fetched?
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: MarcoSkoll on August 31, 2010, 01:30:45 PM
Quote from: Elva on August 31, 2010, 01:10:14 AMOne, since Elva is particularly sympathetic towards the Eldar, she would easily help out a craftworld in need.
A) Why would a craftworld need the help? The Eldar, while dying, are still a very powerful race.
B) Why would a craftworld accept the help? Firstly, the Eldar are a pretty proud race. They will ONLY accept help if they absolutely have to, and really, they'd prefer to manipulate someone into doing it anyway. While, theoretically the Eldar can end up in the debt of a human (and will usually honour that debt), they'll usually avoid getting to that stage as much as possible.

An Inquisitor might (and only might, that's quite how powerful the Eldar are) have the resources that they could be of some use to the Eldar. However, such an event would call for the use of huge amounts of the Inquisitor's power.

Not something you'd do subtly - we're talking the kind of thing people would definitely notice. So, you'd definitely be outed as a Radical if you did enough to help a Craftworld, at least knowingly.
However, if the Eldar could use you (In GrimDark Millennium, Eldar use you!) early enough, then much smaller actions could save a craftworld - although you'd probably never know. (Perhaps you lead a purge that kills an individual who or whose descendents would later threaten the Eldar.)

Help an individual Eldar is another matter - that could go missed, and is a far more likely event. A craftworld has huge resources to call on (far beyond what an Inquisitor could normally offer), but an individual Eldar may not.
This of course, might open up the way for a Craftworld to use you (again, probably not by your knowledge), via this Eldar who seems to be in your debt.

QuoteA wise Farseer or other Eldar leader would probably take advantage of this and probably manipulate her to their will, though she'd probably still help out if she knew with a bit of coaxing.
Haha. No.

If any human actually found out quite what the Eldar had planned, they really would NOT help. Eldar plans have a complete disregard for anything non-Eldar. Even the races they don't see as half evolved mud dwellers don't get any leeway in the Eldar plans. The races they do see as such (humans amongst them), well, they're completely free game as far as the Eldar are concerned.
And for the same reason, the Eldar would never tell their plans (and neither do they need to).

You seem to be missing the mindset of the Eldar somewhat. They aren't like Tolkien's Elves or even Warhammer Fantasy Elves - both of those races are at least slightly altruistic. The Eldar really aren't - they look out for themselves, and no one else. Any acts of aid or such they appear to offer are ultimately to their benefit (by some manipulation of the web of fate), not because they actually care about you.
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Acolyte Havlan Tome on August 31, 2010, 07:51:03 PM
She might not help them directly. She might help them without the eldar knowing....just a thought.
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: MarcoSkoll on August 31, 2010, 08:05:09 PM
Quote from: Acolyte Havlan Tome on August 31, 2010, 07:51:03 PMShe might help them without the eldar knowing.
And at that point, there's then no debt to be called in. Helping someone without them knowing - while potentially an interesting story, and maybe worth developing in a character - will not earn you any "favours" from them.
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Elva on September 01, 2010, 01:53:12 AM
That would make more sense, an individual debt rather than an entire craftworld. Though what I meant was to further their goals, not necessarily save every single Eldar aboard.

Even though Eldar plans tend to put other races in a bad spot, if the plan involved hurting another Xeno or chaos sect, I'm sure they could put aside their differences for a little while. Also, Elva's fascination with the Eldar would have been allowed to grow to such an extent by now, that she'd be able to justify that by helping them, even if it did involve human loss, it would benefit both sides in the end.

I think you misunderstand me as well a bit. You see, Elva is cunning and smart, however she's a fool when it comes to dealing with the Eldar, and she could easily be swayed in a direction they deem appropriate.

Hehe, I wasn't saying that they'd tell her, I was just making a point that she can be manipulated by them with ease.
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: MarcoSkoll on September 01, 2010, 12:28:54 PM
Quote from: Elva on September 01, 2010, 01:53:12 AMYou see, Elva is cunning and smart, however she's a fool when it comes to dealing with the Eldar, and she could easily be swayed in a direction they deem appropriate.
Is that really right for an Inquisitor though? These people are supposed to be strong willed, opinionated and intelligent, not people who fold like wet tissue paper on a certain issue.

I have no problem with a character who believes that the Eldar may be humanity's salvation - perhaps they believe that endearing themselves to the Eldar will improve the way the Eldar view humanity and forge alliances (which, in its own way, is a pretty major delusion) - but someone who just blindly allows (and indeed, helps) the Eldar do whatever they want doesn't sound like an Inquisitor to me.
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Jamas Orian on September 01, 2010, 07:32:55 PM
Quote from: MarcoSkoll on September 01, 2010, 12:28:54 PM
I have no problem with a character who believes that the Eldar may be humanity's salvation - perhaps they believe that endearing themselves to the Eldar will improve the way the Eldar view humanity and forge alliances (which, in its own way, is a pretty major delusion) - but someone who just blindly allows (and indeed, helps) the Eldar do whatever they want doesn't sound like an Inquisitor to me.

I concur.

It would make for very easy scenarioes having her has the 'radical' though, so that is always a good thing.
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Aidan on September 02, 2010, 01:38:37 AM
As has been stated, no Inquisitor worth their salt would trust the Eldar to work in anything other than their own self interest. Which is not to say that the Eldar self-interest (the interpretation of which I imagine varies from craftworld to craftworld) can not coincide with the Inquisitor's interest, or even humanity's interests, for a time (they are both, after all, civilised sentient races concerened with survival in the face of apocalyptic and sometimes gratuitously evil powers). I do like the idea of Eldar in Inquisitor, though (perhaps loyalty to my old 40k army...), even if they have a largely behind-the-scenes role.

It could be perfectly appropriate for Elva to be working with the Eldar because she percieves their interests to coincide, and working with the Eldar often would allow the Eldar doing what they want (it's hard to stop them!), but she would be wise to keep her eye on the xenos' activities, and to watch her back...

As my radical Renovist (recongregator) Inquisitor could tell her, you can't trust the Eldar. He had a campaign where he forged a tenuous alliance with a local Eldar Craftworld because they had a history of supporting a powerful reformist revolutionary movement in the region (for their own purposes, of course) - unfortunately, their plans also involved killing him after he'd done what they wanted him to, and he barely escaped with his life. At the end of the day, the Eldar do not value human lives (rather like humans in that regard, really), and their vast intellect and prophetic abilities make their actions hard to predict and their intentions very hard to discern.

- - - - -

Another random thought, since you have described her as 'sympathetic' to the Eldar: I guess a particularly open-minded (which would probably be called heretical) human (and Inquisitors have a notorious tendency towards developing an open mind) could have earnest sympathy for the Eldar, given the cruel plight of the race. That does not mean the Eldar would give a damn about their sympathiser, though, except in as much as that sympathiser could further their ends.

-A.

Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Elva on September 02, 2010, 02:04:32 AM
I was trying to aim for the fact that over time, what started as a mere interest is developing to a full blown obsession. Though it's not to say she isn't cautious, it's just that she is easily caught off guard by them as her fascination with the xenos overrides most of her logic.

Or there is option B, which is to re-haul her and make give her a different position. One idea that occurred to me, was if I really need to play an Inquisitor, I could easily make Elva the Eldar(give me an excuse to draw her with pointy ears  ;D), and have another Inquisitor entirely. Though that brings up the issue that she won't be the main character anymore. Option B2 is to have her as an Eldar leading the band, however I would have to find a good reason why an Eldar would lead a band of humans, which I'm sure could be done, I just need to really do my research and stretch my brain.

Any thoughts on this random brainstorm? :P
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Flinty on September 02, 2010, 07:55:00 AM
Possibly not a welcome comment, but sometimes it can happen that one ends up going through so many twists, turns and aboutfaces that the original idea either gets buried or a round peg is forced into a square hole - it may be better to scrap the idea and start again.

I'd say the concensus on the Conclave is that pretty much any Inquisitor will eventually end up being a pawn of thier Eldar ''ally''; which seems a viable plot line to me, as long as the Eldar don't suddenly start showering them with goodies, advice or help, beyond making sure the puppet does what its supposed to do.

No reason why Elva would not have some delusion that she has a connection or otherwise imaginary empathy with the/an Eldar, and should add a little spice to role playing those encounters where one might be present. Presumably she will be able to function perfectly normally when dealing with day-to-day non Eldar related Ordos investigations, it will just add a nice flaw or hook to the character.

Given the powerful impact of an Eldar in game terms, I dont think they need a warband (I seem to remember one idea that was just two Eldar directing thier nefarious plans where humans were concerned) as they are entirely capable in themselves - as long as thier actions are suitably rp'ed of course. 

I personally doubt that an Eldar is going to put up with a bunch of clunky, stupid Mon-Kieghs (sp?) stumbling about cocking up thier plans, and is more likely to be teenage in not wanting to be seen/associated with humans - surely that would be far too obvious and unsubtle - definately an antithesis of all things Eldar.

Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Jamas Orian on September 02, 2010, 01:39:49 PM
An exceptionally easy way to have an Eldar working with a warband is to have a common enemy. Set yourself up against Tyranids / Orks / Slaanesh and you've instantly got an excuse to work together
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Elva on September 02, 2010, 10:47:49 PM
Nah, its okay. I'm welcome to all thoughts as long as they're constructive. However, I think that this helps evolve the character/idea, and if I want to go back to the base I would. Sort of like choosing between a plasma gun and a musket, yes the musket is pretty cool and was were firearms started, but a Plasma gun is generally better. But there are situations were archaic firearms would be a better choice.

Sorry for the bizzare metaphor :P 

I also seem to be getting a bit of a whiff of how the Xenos' minds work by everyone's statements. Basically they are the superior race and their survival is at the top of the list. Not to mention being extremely powerful even in their weakened state(would hate to have had to fought them at their empire's peak :o).

I am pretty warmed up to the idea of an Eldar leading a band of humans, despite the fact that it is pretty implausible even if they are just cannon fodder. Maybe its a squad of guard that have a particular part in the fate the Eldar, though that would warrant subtle manipulation, rather than a more direct approach. I just need to figure out how a reason for an Eldar to have to constantly be with these "creatures".

Now that I think of it the common foe would be good, but I want to try my hand and see if I can go a level or two higher, just to see if I can.
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Aidan on September 03, 2010, 12:52:28 AM
Well, I do have an renegade Eldar pirate who regularly employs humans as flunkies - I mean, you've got to get them somewhere, and when there's not enough of your own kin who are on speaking terms with you... The fact of the matter is that - for all their primitiveness and flaws - Humans are relaible mooks and the only kind in ready supply in the galaxy. Just don't expect the Eldar to find them endearing (except, perhaps, as pets).

For the more well-placed Eldar, reasoning might be harder to come up with. But I'm sure you can come up with something. Just don't disregard the fluff, and I'll probably support your ideas.

-A.
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Elva on September 03, 2010, 01:02:24 AM
Will do. I think the issue is just not having a good enough understanding of the fluff, rather than disregarding it. But that's steadily improving as I learn more from talking with experienced 'clavers. I'll try and sit down and brainstorm when I get some free time.
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: MarcoSkoll on September 03, 2010, 01:50:17 AM
Quote from: Elva on September 02, 2010, 10:47:49 PMI just need to figure out how a reason for an Eldar to have to constantly be with these "creatures".
In a similar way to Aidan, a loooooooong time back (and it's somewhat canonically dodgy), I had a character called Eclipse who was an Eldar who had been completely outcast by Eldar society.
With no other options for his own survival, he hid himself in amongst the depths of human society, making contact with humanity only so far as he needed to in order to keep himself alive. His only real companion was an Alien bounty hunter, of a race he felt wasn't quite as detestable as humans.

You might be able to work that idea, but I'll be honest, I'm not sure you're going with quite the right basis for this character. Now, I apologise in advance - I'm not looking to cause offence with what follows, but I recognise that my opinions have proven unintentionally inflammatory in the past.

I take it that this character is used in other fictional universes as an Elf? The problem is, there just aren't Elves in 40k, and the closest equivalents are not very amicable to humans - so you can't really port that across. You're really trying too hard to do so, and what I'm seeing here is a lot of good ideas thrown away in the pursuit of something that hasn't really got a place in this particular setting. In my opinion, you should really reserve the idea of Elva as an Elf for the universes where it doesn't conflict quite so heavily with the canonical background, and work on developing a variant for this universe.

Now, I don't know exactly what it is about elves that appeals to you, but ultimately, what does Elf boil down to in most fantasy universes? Long-lived individuals who epitomise some human traits (usually intelligence, attractiveness and grace/agility) and who are almost entirely human in appearance - but for their pointy ears.
And, largely, that's what an Inquisitor is*. It's possible for Inquisitors to live hundreds of years with the aid of technology, and they are most certainly prime human specimens. Unless you're set on pointy ears (which really only serve to set Elves visually apart), an Inquisitor can easily neatly match almost all the traits normally assigned to elves in fantasy universes.

So I'd go back to the idea of her as an Inquisitor. If you want to keep some connections to the Eldar, then make her an Ordos Xenos Inquisitor with some sympathetic leanings for the Eldar - although I would stay clear of her mindlessly helping them with anything - and perhaps a few connections in the craftworlds that she can make use of at times.

Sorry to be quite so disapproving, but I honestly do think you're discarding good ideas for some rather out of place ones.

*I have also been known to describe them as "What you'd get if you mixed The Doctor and Indiana Jones"
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Elva on September 03, 2010, 02:15:14 AM
I take no offense, in fact, I'm glad you're trying to save me from going down a wrong path  :). I do use Elva in a lot of my writing/drawing, and replacing her has been a fruitless task. In most settings, she is a half elf(most notably, my D&D bard that doesn't suck in any way), though she can vary. The best conclusion I can figure out for as to why I use her so much is that I can never get any conclusion, everything involved with her I either loose interest in or some other issue comes up. However, I try to match that with persistence, and am using her every chance I get, hoping that I can get some form of satisfaction. However, I have wanted to use her for Inquisitor for some time now.

Onto the Eldar part of the issue. I figured that they were different from elves as I got more and more experienced in the forty first millennium. What appeals to me, is not just the pointy ears and elven like characteristics, but the confidence, and manner in which they carry themselves. They once ruled the universe, and that sort of appeals to my Imperialistic side. I'm not the strongest willed person, so I guess I admire them for completely disregarding anyone who gets in their way and treating them as a bug under their foot.

I'm also kind of interested in learning their psyche, it would be a fun and rich roleplaying challenge. And I think Elva would make a good Eldar, I just get a good mental image when I envision her as such. Even if it means tweaking her a bit(or a lot), I would be willing to give it a shot.
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Shannow on September 03, 2010, 02:54:17 AM
Quote from: MarcoSkoll on September 03, 2010, 01:50:17 AM

*I have also been known to describe them as "What you'd get if you mixed The Doctor and Indiana Jones"

Sheer genius Marco, genius!!
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: MarcoSkoll on September 03, 2010, 03:36:59 AM
Quote from: Elva on September 03, 2010, 02:15:14 AMI do use Elva in a lot of my writing/drawing, and replacing her has been a fruitless task.
Well, given the considerable number of (rather different) drafts, I'm a little confused as to quite how much continuity there can be between the different versions.

But that aside, I'll say it's a good thing for a character to have that kind of rooting in your mind - it's a sign that something is working. Still, it doesn't mean you should try to shoehorn them into places they don't quite fit.
Feel free to use her if you can make enough adjustments for her to fit into 40k, but as has already been said, square pegs don't fit in round holes (unless you shave off the corners).

QuoteI guess I admire them for completely disregarding anyone who gets in their way and treating them as a bug under their foot.
Again, this is an entirely feasible (and indeed, common) trait for an Inquisitor. Confidence and conviction should be expected in such a person. Admittedly, man has never ruled the galaxy but many, if not most, Inquisitors believe that humanity has the right to do so.

The fact is, it's pretty easy to create a human character who possesses the appropriate parts of the Eldar psyche, but leaves out the less suitable parts. I'd also note (again) that an Eldar would still be much more dominating on the table than a human.

Quote from: Shannow on September 03, 2010, 02:54:17 AMSheer genius Marco, genius!!
Why, thank you. ;D
Title: Re: Inquisitor Elva Mark III
Post by: Elva on September 03, 2010, 03:56:28 AM
The trouble is getting what's in my head out on paper, which comes out oddly sometimes. To be honest, until i got on the 'clave, I never really sat down to write about what she was like, and now the original idea is muddled with variations, but I've learned for next time, now I never play a character unless I have written down notes. But now that you mention it, I probably should come up with another character design, one specifically made for Inquisitor, though it'll be a toughie to break out of the Elva archetype. 

That is a good point, I could make my character very elfish and aloof, though the Eldar armour and tech is pretty cool. But I see your point.

All these mistakes I'll hopefully never make again, I usually don't. I'm glad though I've got guys like you to steer me in the right direction, your guidance has proved invaluable in my learning process.

Sadly, for now I must take a break from working on Inquisitor, as school is almost here and I've got preparations to make before Tuesday, not to mention two D&D characters by Monday and still find time to goof off and sketch. I'll still be on the forums and respond, just don't expect any more character sheets for awhile.