Fist time players creating inquisitors

[Crystal-Maze]

Hello one and all. I'm a first time GM/ inquisitor player, and I'm looking for some quidance. I've asked my players to design their characters, startin with their inquisitors, and the following is what they have come up with. I'm just wondering what the Conclave would say about their power level/ usability, bearing in mind that we are all complete noobs?

Inquisitor Neus Pangeneum
Inquisitor Pangeneum started his career when he was rescued from the ruins of an imperial orphanage by an inquisitor of the Thorian school. He excelled in his early learning and embarked upon his early career with the fiery determination of youth. During his travels Neus realized the limitations of puritan Thorian teachings, chiefly that he was working to save an empire which didn't want to be saved. Lost in this revelation Neus searched the depths of the archives of the technological archives of Mars until he found references to an ark which could save humanity. Armed with this knowledge he sought out inquisitors of the Recongregational order, to find they did not share the extent of his dream but only the essence of it. Neus had come to the realisation that the only way to save humanity was to find his ark and lead the few uncorrupted human souls to salvation, and instigate the destruction of a rotten and corrupt Imperium.
WS   BS   S    T     I   Wp   Sg   Nv   Ld
72    82   55  54  70 95    95   85    85
Pangeneum is right handed.
Neus is armed with an inferno pistol (with 2 reloads) and a master crafted sword, wears heavy robes all over, and flak armour on his chest. Neus also carries 2 frag grenades.
Neus has the abilities- Quick Draw, Leader, Heroic and Nerves of Steel.


Inquisitor Constantine Faulkner
Constantine is a devout puritan, a strong Amalathian, but more importantly, a wanted man. He is a devout follower of the emperor. However, during one of his earliest exploits as an inquisitor he was forced by circumstance to imprison a powerful daemon within the only thing available at the time, his sword. Unable to abandon this...thing...for risk of its falling into the wrong hands Constantine carries his prison with him. This blade is now known as 'the Whispering blade' for it continuously whispers to Constantine and any who look upon its drawn surface. For this reason he often seen to be talking as if to himself as he struggles to restrain the daemon. Though the torture of this continual, internal struggle should be enough of a sacrifice for any man it was compounded when witnessed by a fellow Inquisitor. Branded Extremis Diabolis, Constantine is on the run. Still devoutly trying to uphold the Imperium and save it from destruction but always alone with the whispering...until fate finally decides to show its hand...

WS    BS    S    T    I    Wp    Sg    Nv   Ld
85     75   65   65  80    90    85     90    75

Constantine is Left-Handed

Equipment: Revolver (4 reloads), Daemon Sword (Screaming, Gnawing, Daemonbane), Flak Armour on all locations except the head, 2 Frag grenades, 1 blind grenade

Ablilities: Leader, Force of Will, Nerves of Steel, Heroic


Inquisitor Zartonious
Many people consider Zartonious to be a radical. Some even go so far to consider him a heretic but he simply does what he has to, to get the job done. He no longer cares what his fellow Inquisitors feel or say about him, he is here to serve the Emperor as part of the OrdoXenos, not to try and fit in with other inferior minds. Some suspect him of serving the OrdoXenos in an attempt to find some powerful alien being that he could bargain with or rope into submission and force to join his band.In combat, precision isn't one of his virtues. He is known for being bloodthirsty and a brute, charging straight into close combat wielding his favorite weapon, a huge power hammer and smashing enemies to bloody pulp just using his impressive strength and although he isn't without skill he prefers to just overcome his enemies with a series of powerful blows. Whatever it is decided that Zartonious is whether it be radical or heretic or something else entirely, everybody has agreed he is an Istvaanian. He has had his fair share of dealing with cults, manipulating alien races and sometimes even hiring them as mercenaries to play a part in his band. He has also been known to pit them against each other, certain enemy organizations and occasionally even other inquisitors to provide distractions and to be a nuisance while Zartonious can get the job done while they are kept busy.
Ws   Bs   S   T   I   Wp   Sg   Nv   Ld
67   54   80   74   55   75   78   93   79

Inquisitor Zartonious is right handed.
Equipment – Power Hammer, Naval Pistol with 3 reloads and 2 man-stopper, Shotgun with 16 shells, Carapace armour on arms, legs and chest, Flak armour on all other locations except head, Average bionic lungs, 2 Frag and 1 Krak grenade
Abilities – True Grit, Furious Assault, Heroic, Leader, Deflect Shot
Exotic Abilities – Fearsome

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated

[seaglen]

Starting with  Neus:

lead the few uncorrupted human souls to salvation, and instigate the destruction of a rotten and corrupt Imperium.

A perfectly insane and grand vision! Very good for plot lines and confrontations. A few questions: Is he trying to wipe out the majority of the human race bar the ones he deems worthy? That is a lot of Exterminatus orders! how much influence does his view hold in regards to other Inquisitors? Is he persecuted/ignored/respected?

As for his stats: It all depends on how you want your games to run. I prefer going for more underpowered characters (it makes a boltgun round to the chest hurt like they should!) and also it gives them room to develop skills over time etc.

He seems to have an incredibly high BS, WP, SG, Nv and Ld...

what are his main skill sets? looking at his abilities I would say a tough gunfighter type character, but also has fantastic combat skills? what are his weaknesses?

I would focus on an area he excells in, and dumb down others. For example, maybe reduce his WP so he is more vunlerable to psychic attack? lowering his BS is also reommended, as after a turn of aiming, he will never ever EVER miss! a BS of 65 is what i aim for on an Inquisitor, as it gives room for stray shots and necesitates the aiming action. His equipment list seems fair and balanced however!

ok, moving on to Constantine...

a wanted man

wanted by whom?? other Inquisitors I presume.
A lovely bit of character he has though. Good amount of inner strife!

Stats: BS again super good! He seems to come across as a close combat beast. daemon sword and S T to keep him standing for days! (base injury of 7? wow!) maybe decrease his toughness a lot, and also decrease his WS and definately his BS once more. WP of 90 is also reaching upper limits of what I would go for, but each to their own! What kind of specialism does Constantine excel in? it seems combat, as he only has a revolver for a sidearm. make his stats reflect this. Games become more fun when your Inquisitor is stuck in a situation he is uncomfortable in. trying to get out of a gunfight and into combat adds for excitement ingame, rather than the inquisitor being proficient all round.

Zartonius:
I do like the arrogant, bombastic and general pomposity this guy portrays!
He has plenty going for him with regards to character. loving that he seems to be a schemer rather than a skilled frontline warrior. I also enjoy that although his skill in combat isnt great, he has frmidable strength. this will work well in games for very unpredicted bouts!

Stats:

In combat, precision isn't one of his virtues

his stats reflect this, which is good. He has flaws like so many of us humans do. His S stat is remarkable!! how much does he bench in his spare time i wonder???
As for his abilities and equipment: He does seem overtooled... A power hammer is a mighty beast of a weapon. does he need both firearms? i would loose one (i'd say keep shotgun as it reflects his love of BOOM SMASH! tactics and lack of care for precision).

Deflect Shot

....
As much as this ability is fantastic. I just dont see it working with the character. Especially one with a lack of precision! deflect shot requires a certain level of reaction and ability. I see this guy as shrugging off bullets with his true grit ability rather than deftly blocking them with a chunky power hammer.


All in all, I like the character backgrounds. a lot of good concepts and plenty of room for character development. Stats-wise, i'd say tone them down a lot. Make your characters able to develop and grow. Give them solid weaknesses (even though they are Inquisitors, humans just are never good at everything!). I normally put a human (standard ordinary Joe Public) at about WS/BS 40-50, S and T about 50 max, and depending on their mentality, anything from 40-65 for the mind-based characteristics. Work up from this for an Inquisitor to about WS 75 max i'd say. Give them abilities to match their characters and to strengthen them in certain ways, but leave them lacking in other areas.

Great concepts, and I hope this helped.

[Koval]

Hello one and all. I'm a first time GM/ inquisitor player, and I'm looking for some quidance. I've asked my players to design their characters, startin with their inquisitors, and the following is what they have come up with. I'm just wondering what the Conclave would say about their power level/ usability, bearing in mind that we are all complete noobs?

Let's have a look. I promise I'm trying to help, but I can't promise I'll be gentle.

Inquisitor Neus Pangeneum
Inquisitor Pangeneum started his career when he was rescued from the ruins of an imperial orphanage

These tend to be synonymous with Scholae Progenium.

by an inquisitor of the Thorian school.

And what was the Inquisitor's motivation for doing this?

He excelled in his early learning and embarked upon his early career with the fiery determination of youth.

We don't seem to have an awful lot to go on here. Neus appears to have gone from "rescued from an orphanage under unexplained circumstances" to "full Inquisitor".

During his travels Neus realized the limitations of puritan Thorian teachings, chiefly that he was working to save an empire which didn't want to be saved.

And what events led to this epiphany?

Lost in this revelation Neus searched the depths of the archives of the technological archives of Mars

The Adeptus Mechanicus don't take kindly to people grubbing around in the Martian archives unless they are sufficiently privileged members of the Machine Cult. There are less contentious planets out there.

until he found references to an ark which could save humanity.

By doing what?

Armed with this knowledge he sought out inquisitors of the Recongregational order, to find they did not share the extent of his dream but only the essence of it. Neus had come to the realisation that the only way to save humanity was to find his ark and lead the few uncorrupted human souls to salvation, and instigate the destruction of a rotten and corrupt Imperium.

Sounds like a typical self-deluded visionary. Please expand... well, everything about this guy's background. Why did the Thorian pick him up? What makes him special? Why does he think the way he does? What's this "ark" supposed to be?

WS   BS   S    T     I   Wp   Sg   Nv   Ld
72    82   55  54  70 95    95   85    85
Pangeneum is right handed.

Oh dear. Two stats in the 90s and three in the 80s? And there's no justification in his background for any of them. His WS, S and T are okay but all the other stats need to come right down. Ignore the rulebook stats entirely, and use this guide instead.

Neus is armed with an inferno pistol (with 2 reloads) and a master crafted sword, wears heavy robes all over, and flak armour on his chest. Neus also carries 2 frag grenades.

Looks like a classic case of attempting to balance out one very powerful piece of kit by making everything else relatively unassuming. There's also no explanation for why the inferno pistol is deemed necessary, or why he has it; normally I wouldn't ask that, but his background is so minimalist, and inferno pistols are sufficiently rare, that you either need to offer a reason for why he's carrying an inferno pistol, or get rid of it.

To give an example from my own collection, Trooper Kass carries a plasma gun, but that's because he's ex-Guard and was his squad's plasma gunner; the Inquisitor who hired Kass did so because of his Accidental Aiming Skills, and more or less ordered him to bring his plasma gun with him. Similarly, Alice Fenn has a refractor field (she didn't originally, but she does now) as a gift from her current patron. Obviously, an inferno pistol's a bit harder to justify, but we need to see a reason he's got it. Otherwise, downgrade the gun.

Neus has the abilities- Quick Draw, Leader, Heroic and Nerves of Steel.

Quick Draw and Leader are okay but why does he have Heroic and Nerves of Steel? Where's the reasoning there?

Inquisitor Constantine Faulkner

I've seriously lost track of the number of first-time characters I've seen called Constantine. It might sound cool at first, but later on down the line it becomes an overused name. And in any case Constantine wasn't even that good a film.

Constantine is a devout puritan, a strong Amalathian, but more importantly, a wanted man. He is a devout follower of the emperor. However, during one of his earliest exploits as an inquisitor he was forced by circumstance to imprison a powerful daemon within the only thing available at the time, his sword.

Expand this please -- what were the circumstances, and why -- if the daemon was weakened sufficiently to have been bound -- did Faulkner not just finish the job and hack its head off?

Unable to abandon this...thing...for risk of its falling into the wrong hands Constantine carries his prison with him.

The Grey Knights have whole vaults dedicated to locking things like this away if he'd wanted to get rid of it.

This blade is now known as 'the Whispering blade' for it continuously whispers to Constantine and any who look upon its drawn surface. For this reason he often seen to be talking as if to himself as he struggles to restrain the daemon. Though the torture of this continual, internal struggle should be enough of a sacrifice for any man it was compounded when witnessed by a fellow Inquisitor. Branded Extremis Diabolis, Constantine is on the run.

This other Inquisitor must've been properly paranoid to just slap a Carta Extremis on this guy from one instance of talking to himself.

Still devoutly trying to uphold the Imperium and save it from destruction but always alone with the whispering...until fate finally decides to show its hand...

Okay, this character's flawed from the start because we don't know anything about how or why he was forced to bind this daemon. It generally takes a lot more effort to bind it than kill it. Again, please expand.

WS    BS    S    T    I    Wp    Sg    Nv   Ld
85     75   65   65  80    90    85     90    75

Constantine is Left-Handed

Multiples of five everywhere -- we have a Base 10 numbering system, so feel free to use those extra digits you're not using. I also see absolutely no need for him to have such high stats, especially those two at 90 and those three in the 80s.

Equipment: Revolver (4 reloads), Daemon Sword (Screaming, Gnawing, Daemonbane), Flak Armour on all locations except the head, 2 Frag grenades, 1 blind grenade

This daemon sword doesn't have a Wp value. Huge problem there, as that means he's got a totally risk-free version of something that should be fighting his mental control. His gear looks slightly more appropriate than Neus', but you could still do something special with the gun, rather than just have the same kind of revolver used by Jon the Hive Ganger.

Ablilities: Leader, Force of Will, Nerves of Steel, Heroic

Force of Will and Nerves of Steel on a Heroic character? Why are these three all on the same person? What is there in his background to justify any of those? Is he devoid of free will, or too stupid to know when to duck for cover? Again, you'll want to see that link I put next to Neus' stats.

Inquisitor Zartonious
Many people consider Zartonious to be a radical. Some even go so far to consider him a heretic but he simply does what he has to, to get the job done. He no longer cares what his fellow Inquisitors feel or say about him

Can you expand on these?

he is here to serve the Emperor as part of the OrdoXenos, not to try and fit in with other inferior minds.

This bit's okay, although you might like to tell us why. I similarly have an Inquisitor who doesn't give a monkey's what other people think of her, though this is probably because she's also a homicidal Istvaanian chessmistress.

Some suspect him of serving the OrdoXenos in an attempt to find some powerful alien being that he could bargain with or rope into submission and force to join his band.

Why do they suspect this?

In combat, precision isn't one of his virtues. He is known for being bloodthirsty and a brute, charging straight into close combat wielding his favorite weapon, a huge power hammer and smashing enemies to bloody pulp just using his impressive strength and although he isn't without skill he prefers to just overcome his enemies with a series of powerful blows.

Sounds like a psychotic version of my own Inquisitor Haines.

Whatever it is decided that Zartonious is whether it be radical or heretic or something else entirely, everybody has agreed he is an Istvaanian. He has had his fair share of dealing with cults, manipulating alien races and sometimes even hiring them as mercenaries to play a part in his band. He has also been known to pit them against each other, certain enemy organizations and occasionally even other inquisitors to provide distractions and to be a nuisance while Zartonious can get the job done while they are kept busy.

I'd like to see a bit more about this, but in essence what you've written here is okay. You do seem to repeat yourself a bit, though.

Ws   Bs   S   T   I   Wp   Sg   Nv   Ld
67   54   80   74   55   75   78   93   79

Inquisitor Zartonious is right handed.

His Nerve is monstrous and his WS and BS a tiny bit lower than I'd expected, but the stats are actually okay here -- his S and T, especially, are a touch high but otherwise appropriate for someone who swings a bloody great hammer around all day.

Equipment – Power Hammer, Naval Pistol with 3 reloads and 2 man-stopper, Shotgun with 16 shells, Carapace armour on arms, legs and chest, Flak armour on all other locations except head, Average bionic lungs, 2 Frag and 1 Krak grenade

I do have to ask where he picked up the Naval pistol (it being, well, from the Imperial Navy and not generally sold on the open market) and how he ended up needing bionic lungs. You haven't remotely alluded to him having his lungs replaced, so this looks like "I'll stick it in because I get extra resistance to gas weapons" rather than because you've justified it anywhere.

Abilities – True Grit, Furious Assault, Heroic, Leader, Deflect Shot
Exotic Abilities – Fearsome

Aside from Furious Assault and possibly Leader, why does he have any of these abilities at all? True Grit isn't justified anywhere, and Deflect Shot doesn't make any sense at all. And what is there about him that makes him Fearsome? I don't see anything in his background to go with this ability, and similarly, just being intimidating isn't grounds for being Fearsome. If it was, I'd have two characters who don't currently have Fearsome suddenly getting it. I think it really needs to go.

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated

Well, hopefully it doesn't look too much like I've bitten your head off there. I'm trying to help, even if it doesn't always look like it.

[Crystal-Maze]

Righto, thankyou for the feedback, the both of you. When you're putting 'you' in your posts, I must again stress that I haven't written my characters, my players have. I feel they've stuck fairly well to the rules suggested in the inquisitor book, having never been exposed to the Conclave's preferance for lower-powered characters, so they shouldn't be judged too harshly. Saying this, I can see how some of their stats could be too high for risky play, and that they are rather ability heavy. I'll pass on the recommendations to them, and see what happens

[Koval]

Well, the tendency towards lower-powered-than-LRB characters is something that's been hammered out over quite a long period of time. The reasoning, beyond "it's more fun", eludes me at the moment but there was definitely reasoning there.

As for the "you", I must admit it slipped my mind about halfway through Neus' profile (hence why I'd completely forgotten about it by the time I got to Zartonius), but it means you can pass the feedback on directly to the relevant players, as hopefully it's still specific to their characters, rather than being a sweeping statement about all of them. (Or so I hope.)

[Gilleon]

Just to emphasize something that Koval briefly mentioned, the use of Force of will and Nerves of steel is a problem. These don't represent a character who is exceptionally brave, but will not cower under any circumstances, even when facing a Greater daemon or under fire from multiple heavy bolters.
That isn't so much brave as completely insane. 
High nerve is a better representation of bravery, though there are extra Special abilities on the Carthax wiki (that Koval linked) that could be appropriate.
And for me personally the "Conclave standard", works better than LRB standard is the lower stats create more tension, plus games should take longer, as not every bullet/sword stroke will hit and thus kill your characters quicker. That may be what Koval was eluded by, possibly not.

[MarcoSkoll]

I think Koval has essentially addressed the background issues, so...

Inquisitor Neus Pangeneum

By my standards, a lot of the stats need to come down here. It should be very rare that a character has even a single stat of 80 or more, and quite a few often won't have any of even 70.

It is worth remembering that an Inquisitor is still mortal, even if they might be long lived - they are no more capable of being a master of all trades than any other human. They might enjoy a decent array of mental stats (their job is to investigate things, so they've got to be mentally competent) - roughly around 70, maybe an 80 in one area they specialise in - but it's unlikely they'll be the best of their entourage in a scrap, as they should have allies specifically recruited for that role.

The Inferno pistol... doesn't seem to hugely fit in. Bear in mind, these are rare weapons with scarce ammo - and are highly conspicuous. And as a weapon, it's only useful in very specific circumstances - very tough, very close targets. In a normal gunfight, it's pretty useless.
For a character whose stats say he's more focused on shooting than close combat, having only this for a ranged weapon is really out of place. Seriously, how did he get that good with his gun when it's so situational?
"Even" a laspistol is a more useful prospect for an Inquisitor, seeing as it'll actually last more than three shots, isn't as innately inaccurate and might actually leave a target to interrogate - or at least a corpse to search!

I'll add a plug for my Revised Inquisitor Armoury here, which is a project that aims to give players a wider, rebalanced range of weapons. It might add a little too much too fast for a new group, but it can do an awful lot to make players reconsider their choices of weapons.

When players realise what a recoilless, high capacity weapon that uses coherent light to explosively vaporise the target's flesh such as the laspistol should actually play like (the short version: "totally awesome"), they tend to get a lot less keen on bolt, plasma and melta weapons.

Heroic - I always describe this with the "Indiana Jones test". Does this character regularly do the kind of risky, daring stunts you might see from Indiana Jones? Things like knocking down walls with statues, chasing after a heretic convoy who have stolen holy artefacts or taking on a tank with a revolver, bullwhip and a horse?

The kind of thing for which the soundtrack would have to be something like:
> The Raiders March - aka, the Indiana Jones theme.
> Rock Anthem for Saving the World - aka, the Halo theme (but not the version they totally screwed up on the remastered soundtrack of the anniversary edition. It took my brother and I a few seconds to decide to change back to the classic soundtrack.)
> "The Fellowship" - aka, the hero theme from the Lord of the Rings trilogy.
> "He's a Pirate" - aka, the Pirates of the Caribbean theme.
> The 1812 Overture finale - aka, every explosion montage you have ever seen.
> The choral section from the 4th movement of Beethoven's 9th Symphony.

You should probably explain to your players that it's often better to think of this as skill as being called "Daredevil". A lot of our characters are heroes (if likely anti-heroes), but few of them are the kind of risk takers that Heroic represents.

Nerves of Steel - This is really better reserved for characters who know no fear, as opposed to highly brave ones (who just need a high Nv). Force of Will is much the same, in that it's for characters who are beyond jaded.

Inquisitor Constantine Faulkner

See above as regards stats, Heroic, Nerves of Steel and Force of Will.

Inquisitor Zartonious

Once again, see above regarding Heroic.

Deflect shot - not for a character who is explicitly imprecise, no. In any case, I'd personally limit this only to characters with literally unnatural reactions and senses. Perhaps having bionic reactions or being a psyker. Bullets have this problem of being very, very fast.
Also, deflect shot with a hammer? It seems like someone has been watching too much Avengers.

True Grit - This should represent only the most unbelievably tenacious characters, so don't let players get complacent about it, and I should add it is particularly cliché to take with Heroic. A lot of people create one of their first Inquisitors with both, because they're "good" skills.

These days, I use that combination once in amongst a very large collection of characters - a mindscrubbed cross between a psyker and a pit fighter who has absolutely nothing to lose (after all, who he was is already dead) except the chance to redeem sins he can no longer remember committing. It takes unnaturally driven characters to deserve both skills.

Fearsome - Fearsome takes a lot more than just being intimidating. It actually requires something being seriously scary, such that anyone looking at them would instinctively know that attacking that character is borderline suicide.

Hence, I disagree with the rulebook on a couple of points.
Quovandius should not be fearsome - being ugly is not going to scare off any fighter worthy of serving the Inquisition.
Space Marines, however, should be fearsome - they're very strong, very fast, very tough, very experienced and engrained in nearly everyone's mind as one of the ultimate warriors of the 41st millennium. Any character who can avoid soiling themselves at the prospect of fighting a Space Marine is doing very well.

Fear is the realm of Space Marines, daemons, maybe pit fighters or zombies - almost nothing still "human" deserves Fearsome.

[seaglen]

almost nothing still "human" deserves Fearsome.

chuck norris?

[MarcoSkoll]

For the sake of sensible and relevant discussion, no... just no.

While he is one of the world's most famous and accomplished martial arts practitioners, he is not superpowered and is getting on more than a bit.
Compare that to some of my characters - say a 134 kilo cyborg with built in weapons, a chainsword, a left jab that can go through a brick wall and decades of brawling to the death with some of the foulest creatures a malevolent galaxy can throw at her - and I think it'd be him that would think about getting into a fight.