Bionics- A question or two

[Swarbie]

Ok, so what powers bionics? Do they get energy from a battery, heat, light, the owner's own body?

And would there be a way of making them function in a place with no access to even present-day technology? Or indeed making them, if one knew how to?

[MarcoSkoll]

Answer: Depends, and mostly on the quality of the bionics.

A techpriest's bionics will be powered by his/her potentia coil, and thus have essentially limitless power. A sophisticated bionic for a non-AdMech character might run off some less advanced system, but still one that draws power from the user's own body. A lesser bionic might only have internal batteries, and need that either replaced or recharged every day or so.

As most of my characters work either for the Inquisition or other suitably wealthy/powerful individuals, they're largely assumed to have bionics which can draw power from the character's own body. (Although they may have the redundancy of a limited internal reserve supply.)
Inquisitors can often be expected to be away from technological comforts, and having to provide separate power for bionics is an consideration that would complicate things.

Couple of ideas I've developed to go with that.

- Silva Birgen has what is basically a stripped down laspistol built into her bionic arm (along with several other weapons!) which draws power from the same bio-electrical supply as her bionics, removing the need for ammunition. However, the supply isn't really designed to give out that kind of power, so heavy use is harmful to her - not normally an issue though, as she so seldom uses it (it's an emergency weapon, for when nothing else is available).

- I've also got a note in my "story ideas" folder about a stranded "cyborg" deactivating their bionics for most of the time to save on the energy (and thus supplies better used for keeping their organic parts alive). Not sure where I'll use that one, but it could be interesting.

[Swarbie]

Answer: Depends, and mostly on the quality of the bionics.

A techpriest's bionics will be powered by his/her potentia coil, and thus have essentially limitless power. A sophisticated bionic for a non-AdMech character might run off some less advanced system, but still one that draws power from the user's own body. A lesser bionic might only have internal batteries, and need that either replaced or recharged every day or so.

. . .

- I've also got a note in my "story ideas" folder about a stranded "cyborg" deactivating their bionics for most of the time to save on the energy (and thus supplies better used for keeping their organic parts alive). Not sure where I'll use that one, but it could be interesting.

So a Techmarine's bionics would be powered by his own body? If so, that's good. Thankyou.

I've also done a bit of work on a story for a cyborg/Iron Man powering down, and then waking up millenia later with an AI stuck in his head. When the AI's not in control, his own programming kicks in, so he's either possessed or obseesssed with fulfilling his Purpose at any given time. To add to his burden, some of his emotional blockers have become worn out, leaving him with a general sense of right and wrong. This isn't good for him when the AI makes him kill people . . . 

As for my final question, that of making bionics, let me extend it a bit. Would it be possible for someone trained in smithing and then trained by the AdMech (Salamanders techmarine) to create crude/average bionics in an environment similar to Greece during 1000 BC?

[Kallidor]

You mean using tools that would have been available in Ancient Greece? That seems highly unlikely. I would imagine that looking at what can be termed bionic arms that are available today there are a multitude of fine parts and parts not made from metal, integral to the function of the limb that a smith with tools similar to those of Ancient Greece would not be able to produce and then never consistently enough to be usable.

Of course if the world is limited to Ancient Greece-like technology would they even have the medical knowledge or ability to clean up and care for an amputee and then attach a bionic?

[Swarbie]

Or using tools carried for delicate work by the Techmarine. But you're probably right. I was thinking very basic, possibly even hydraulically-operated replacements at best.

But it doesn't really matter. I'll give the guy a bionic before he comes to that world in the story.

[precinctomega]

Steam power certainly existed in pre-Roman times.  Ball bearings are essentially Iron Age technology.  Lubricants are Stone Age.  The main challenge facing bionics is technobiological feedback (how does the biological body know what the technological limb is doing?), but if you scatter a bit of handwavium onto that you can imagine some pretty sophisticated (for Iron Age technology levels) bionics being possible.  They're really just clever prosthetics rather than bionics, of course, but still...

R.

[Flinty]

1000 bc in Greece - I assume your thinking along the lines of the Iliad/Mycenae, typical Bronze Age cultures.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.larp.com/hoplite/Walpole.jpg&imgrefurl=http://wargamer.blogspot.com/2005/03/mycenaean-chariot.html&h=833&w=682&sz=72&tbnid=dDNUTEYid08QEM:&tbnh=248&tbnw=203&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmycenaean%2Barmour&zoom=1&q=mycenaean+armour&hl=en&usg=__LdGPXfv1qGeF5PDeScp7QpEzOwc=&sa=X&ei=STjHTPLvI9TR4gaIuvWnDw&ved=0CBsQ9QEwAQ

Apologies for the monstrous length of that link - I dont know how to make it one of those highlighted words

The smithing skills were quite advanced (the Mask of Agammenon was crushed and shows an artistic school rather than an attempt at realisim) but anything beyond the most simple prosthetic is unlikely. Note that the  armour reconstruction includes a boar tusk helmet. There is no reason that other materials could not be used, leather, bone, wood, ceramic even.

Of course, in an alternative universe, there is no reason why an early Archimedes could not have conjured up some sort of clockwork bionic - viz the annoying Owl in the original Clash of the Titans, or was it Jason and the Argonauts?

[Heroka Vendile]

Steam power certainly existed in pre-Roman times.  Ball bearings are essentially Iron Age technology.  Lubricants are Stone Age.  The main challenge facing bionics is technobiological feedback (how does the biological body know what the technological limb is doing?), but if you scatter a bit of handwavium onto that you can imagine some pretty sophisticated (for Iron Age technology levels) bionics being possible.  They're really just clever prosthetics rather than bionics, of course, but still...

R.

handwavium has nothing to do with it

[Kallidor]

Apologies for the monstrous length of that link - I dont know how to make it one of those highlighted words

You need just the URL for the image, http://www.larp.com/hoplite/Walpole.jpg in this case; right click on the image and then choose properties. And then you get Link

handwavium has nothing to do with it

I didn't know Tony Shaloub was working on bionic arms.

[precinctomega]

A huge thank you to Heroka Vendile for that link (facinating stuff, indeed), but I was actually referring to the amount of handwavium that would be required for an Iron Age or pre-Iron Age bionic limb.

R.

[Swarbie]

Yeah, it would indeed.

On a bit of a tangent, thanks for that link Heroka. I found it very moving, and fascinating.

[Heroka Vendile]

A huge thank you to Heroka Vendile for that link (facinating stuff, indeed), but I was actually referring to the amount of handwavium that would be required for an Iron Age or pre-Iron Age bionic limb.

fair doos Robey.

advancing beyond iron-age stuff - when you think of the intricate mechanics the ancient greeks created as "toys" and never fully utilised the potential of some sort of crude clockwork-esque construction wouldn't be unreasonable.
plus when you look at this guys simplistic plastic tube creations with very basic materials - it wouldn't be totally unreasonable to reason that a "working" articulated arm of some sort could be made from wood.

[Flinty]

Impressive!

Agreed - you dont have to have biomechanical systems; I went to school with a guy who had an old fashioned hook/claw combo powered by a rubber strap. Admittedly he had to set and adjust it using his other hand, but he was very adept at using it in a suprisingly inventive fashion given what looked like a rather limited potential to non-users. However, its potential offensive properties were starkly apparent (no I'm not a pensioner, nor did I go to school with a pirate, more's the pity).

I suppose you could also consider the new prosthetic lower limbs which have been shown to be more efficent than a muscled leg for sprinting effort (according to the Olympic commitee anyway) - so combining materials into more ergonomic and efficent forms avoids the need for complicated mechanics altogether.