Author Topic: Flying High  (Read 7284 times)

Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: Flying High
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2010, 07:07:58 PM »
If manned by a character who does not have the Pilot skill, roll scatter die for movement (hit roll=go intended direction, re-roll scatter direction that is more than 90degrees from intended direction), cannot hover
I'd say that's going to make any character who hasn't got the pilot skill almost useless.

For some of my trademark "winging it" (pun only a happy coincidence), I'd go with something like this:

They'd probably be able to go in the right direction, vaguely at least, so what I'd do is scatter them D3 inches at the end of each action (movement or not), so they're sort of where they want to be, but find it hard to be precise and hold position. A risky action failure would result in a 2D6 yard scatter and no actions that turn as they struggled to regain control.
(However, if the "Risky Action" scatter is going to result in an impact, they may take an Initative test, and if passed, may re-roll the scatter - but must take the new result, even if it is worse.)

Any firing from/by an aircraft piloted by a non-pilot would be at half ballistic skill, as the unstable platform makes firing pretty vague and more guesswork and luck than skill.

This would mean that untrained pilots could still vaguely be used, but they'd have to be pretty careful not to get too near to buildings for risk of losing control and slamming sideways into them.
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Offline Alta

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Re: Flying High
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2010, 07:26:44 PM »

Yeah, that's probably best.

Any ideas on altitude/movement distances?
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: Flying High
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2010, 08:59:00 PM »
Any ideas on altitude/movement distances?
Totally depends on the size of your table and how fast you want them to be able to move around it. Considerably faster than on foot, of course - 20 yards upwards seems a reasonable "top speed", but you may have to gamble a bit.
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Offline DapperAnarchist

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Re: Flying High
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2010, 08:59:26 PM »
Based on reading Chickenhawk, about Huey pilots in Vietnam, if you don't have training, you are useless. You will barely be able to go up, certainly won't be able to safely land, and will not be able to consistently go in the direction you want to. I'm ok with non-Pilots being a bit screwed.
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: Flying High
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2010, 09:52:30 PM »
I'm ok with non-Pilots being a bit screwed.
Yeah, but given that many warbands may not include a pilot at all, you can't completely shaft them for that.

If I took Marco's warband... I'd be laughing, as both Arden and Jax have piloting skills - combine that with Jax's regeneration, and I don't really have to worry about losing all my piloting skill to a lucky shot.
Any other warband of mine, and the total pilot count is probably zero.

I'd just assume that many Inquisitor characters have enough gut instinct, luck, and possibly a crash course (likely emphasis on crash) they did two decades ago that they'd be able to at least try.
Of course, if pilots are plentiful in the warbands involved, increase the penalties for non-pilots.
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Offline Morcus

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Re: Flying High
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2010, 07:08:26 AM »
I'd be inclined towards the harsh penalties for non pilots way of looking at this, but as you say it's a bit mean if one player doesn't have a pilot. You could just have some extra pilots to tag along with warbands without them but I think in the right group it might be fun to have some groups who can't fly who'll have to do some more thinking to get around such obsticle, Most players will have at least one guy who could find some kind of excuse for having some piloting skills though.

Offline Myriad

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Re: Flying High
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2010, 09:00:19 AM »
the simplest solution is to allow them to nominate a character to either have some background knowledge of piloting, or to have just taken a crash course in how not to let your inquisitor down.
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Offline Alta

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Re: Flying High
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2010, 05:06:13 PM »
I've told both players to nominate a character to be a pilot.

The table will be approximately 9' by 6'.

For movement distances I was thinking; Slow: 6yards, Combat: 10yards, Fast: 14yards.
For altitude, I was thinking 3 or 6 yards up/down per action.
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: Flying High
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2010, 06:14:38 PM »
nominate a character to either have some background knowledge of piloting
I think that's falling under "I know Kung Fu" - in short, a character who (as of right now) has always been able to do something.

I may leave holes in a character background to allow new hooks and events to be written in, but spontaneously developing skills is another matter - it doesn't encourage players to find creative solutions to a problem if they can suddenly have just the right skill or equipment to solve it.

While I wouldn't object to a character "giving it a go", complete talent out of the blue is too much.

Don't necessarily mistake the rules I suggested for really easy on non-pilots. Risky actions happen pretty frequently (30+% of the time for most speed values), so non-pilots will still be all over the place. If you want to make them tougher on said characters, increase the risky action scatter distance to 2D10 and add a 2D6 descent at the same time. That would make it pretty dangerous.

And probably rather more accurate than "randomised directions", because the likely consequences of piloting failure are not "Oh dear, I've gone left instead of forwards", but a completely messy loss of control.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

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Offline Alta

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Re: Flying High
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2010, 08:48:20 PM »
These skills that they learn are only temporary. We aren't running a campaign yet, this is just a one off game. Of course if they want to design a character for that role and give them that skill, that is fine.
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Offline DapperAnarchist

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Re: Flying High
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2010, 06:48:08 PM »
Well, thinking about it, and this may just be me, but in my warbands... well, one, the Inquisitor has his own one-man shuttle (which I will be building out of an old-school BSG Viper Mark II), another are Rogue Trader crew, another have two people who could reasonably know how to fly a valk or similar... Basically, not many would not have one or more who could.
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Offline Morcus

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Re: Flying High
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2010, 07:25:36 PM »
That was my thinking. In my experience, the sort of warband that would have difficulty finding a pilot tends to be played by the kind of player who'd be up for the challenge of finding another way around the situation.

something worth noting is whether transports are assigned to warbands or are hijacked. If they're assigned then the problem resolves itself because you'd need to have a pilot in the first place and if you lost him you;ve lost the transport (as alot of the plot to Dawn of the Dead hindges on).

If you have more than one on the table I still think you'll get horrible bogged down unless you use GM control.

Offline InquisitorHeidfeld

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Re: Flying High
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2010, 02:56:12 PM »
The corollory is that if they're hijacked then what is to stop one warband from hijacking both? or skuttling the one they can't control...

Again the question is simple, what are the Valkeries adding to the game? And what might an inventive player come up with to gain such an overpowering advantage? And of course what would be the result of the game should one side gain the advantage and the other not?


Offline Kaled

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Re: Flying High
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2010, 05:39:30 PM »
Going to test out these rules on Sunday.
Were you able to try these rules at the weekend?  If so, how well did they work?
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Offline InquisitorHeidfeld

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Re: Flying High
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2010, 05:48:25 PM »
As I see it there are three basic scenarios by which the Valkyries are featured...

1,) Both Parties begin in Valkyries:
Basically we're dealing with a standard car chase format, except that as both cars are loaded with fixed forward mounted weapons the chase car has the distinct advantage... Both groups will have pilots at the stick and therefore you may as well ignore altitude altogether and use the standard vehicle rules and a rolling road.

However... Why would either party dismount (other than being damaged to a point that they fall from the sky... in which case it's less dismount and more plunge)? and why would the first party to dismount hang around to allow the second party to bring their Valkyrie into play rather than rapidly grabbing some very hard cover?

Without really good answers to that one then you may as well begin the game on the ground having told a story about the air chase which brought the two groups there.


2,) Both parties begin on the ground and fight to the Valyries.
The opposite position from the above, effectively a standard game with the Valkyries as a destination objective.

So why would the first party to arrive at the Valkyries not take control of both? Or if they don't have the numbers then why not scuttle the second? Or if there are too many to take control of/scuttle why would they not use as many as they can control simply as firepower to prevent the second party reaching the remainder?

A Valkyrie mounts enough firepower to mince most warbands in seconds, it'd be like a wild west gunslinger drawing down on an Apache Helicopter.

Without really good answers here then it's much more sensible to play a standard ground game with the Valkyries as an objective rather than an actual part of the game.


3,) One Party begins in a Valkyrie, the other on the ground.
The same problems arise here as with the above, one party has significantly more firepower available to them than the other, if the second party have a Valkyrie to move to then the first party can riddle it with holes and prevent its use and if it comes in later then it can be shot down on approach...

And if it shoots them down then all you get is a role reversal...


If you're intending to start one group on the ground but give them plenty of time to reach their Valkyrie without incident then you're actually dealing with scenario 1 rather than 3 but every use I can think of with two competative Valkyries is a variation on one of these...

So what are the Valyries adding to the game?