Author Topic: A newcomers Attempt  (Read 5593 times)

Offline MortalTurky

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A newcomers Attempt
« on: October 20, 2010, 08:59:36 PM »
Hi everyone, and thank you MarcoSkoll for directing me here :D
I am new to Inq, and would like to have som feedback on a character I have thought of :D

He is a Guard Vet :D

Lieutenant Grimor Doigan, Veteran of the Third Armegeddon War
Lone survivor of the Morkanian 77th Heavy Infantry Regiment. He was decorated by his regimental commander after killing a rogue Vindicare assassin, who had been aiming for the Colonel. Remarked as a sniper, but also a good driver. He where often joked with by his comrades for being the only decorated soldier who were unable to defeat a Fire warrior in melee. Found by Inq when he won a shooting completion among the Defense Forces of a planet under investigation by the Inq. Later, the Regiment where proclaimed heretics, and executed to the last man. The men had started to worship a god, which didn´t have that much in difference with the Emperor. Doigan survived due to being recruited into the Inqs service, and was given a lifeline. Angry and bitter, he fights with a rare fury. It is not against his enemies, but against himself. He loathes himself due to not seeing the corruption among his comrades. He believes firmly that the Inquisition is the key to Imperium’s survival. The local Conclave newly started a project who´s purpose was to enhance the Inquisitorial marksmen. To do so, several Henchmen from different Inquisitors where sent to a place where they received training similar to that of the Vindicare Assassins´. Seeing his great potential, the Inq managed to get hold of an Exitus Rifle, which Grimor one received. Another armament is his father´s Black Powder Pistol, a heritage of his primitive home world. Eternally thankful to the Inq, he continues to kill in the Imperium´s name, to deny the heretic the petty joy of living.

Grimor is right-handed

He is a Dead Eye Shot.

Equipment: Exitus Rifle with Infra-scope, Black Powder Pistol. 3 points of armor on entire body, 6 points on chest, Open helmet. Crude bionic right leg. Gas mask.

WS   BS   S   T   I   Wp   Sg   Nv   Ld
47   82   57   58   57   56   52   74   62

C&C are very welcome :D

Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: A newcomers Attempt
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2010, 10:14:44 PM »
The comments I made on Warseer about the Exitus rifle stand - it's really not an appropriate weapon for this character. (Also, very powerful in combination with what is a high BS!)

Secondly, while it's nice to see you've added some of the "Why" from the last version of the background, it takes more than winning a shooting competition to impress an Inquisitor.

If you'd like my suggestion... it's a bit cliché, but a character saving the Inquisitor's operation (or, if you want to get more cliché, the Inquisitor's life) is still a serviceable explanation.

Personally, my temptation, based on your background, would be to make him some form of counter sniper - I'd swap out the "Deadeye Shot" with some skills that make him better at spotting hidden enemies.
Something like an increased accuracy in identifying the direction/location/range a shot came from (maybe passing an Initiative test makes the "determining the approximate location the sound came from" the awareness rules talk about rather less vague), and a "keen-eyed" rule that makes him better at spotting hidden/distant enemies (perhaps halved penalties to any Initiative test to spot a character).

From there, I'd then make it so that his skills came in exceptionally useful during one of the Inquisitor's operations, with him taking out a number of snipers who nearly thwarted the whole thing. As a result, he proved himself pretty indispensable to the Inquisitor.

Only a suggestion of course, but a little more interesting than simply winning a shooting competition.

EDIT: That would probably mean losing the helmet from his equipment... far too hindering if that's his job.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2010, 12:04:41 AM by MarcoSkoll »
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Offline MortalTurky

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Re: A newcomers Attempt
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2010, 12:15:41 PM »
Hi again :D
Well, I do like my Exitus Rifle, since I didn´t find an appropiate Sniper Rifle in the Armoury :S
Do you have any ideas or hints for a good sniper gun?

And about counter sniping, I think it is an awesome idea :D
I will think about that, and also about the story ;)

Once again, thx for your advice and help :D

Offline Kaled

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Re: A newcomers Attempt
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2010, 01:19:34 PM »
A hunting rifle or a lasgun variant are suitable weapons for a Guard sniper. Maybe a needle rifle if he tends to be deployed as a silent assassin.
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Offline Myriad

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Re: A newcomers Attempt
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2010, 01:31:54 PM »
Failing all that, there's a revised armoury around here somewhere, sniper variants and all, if you want to give him an individual weapon.  Guard vets are always good.  Winning a shooting contest would be unlikely to impress the inquisition, but 'they needed some muscle, and his squad was handy' works, although it could use a little exposition.  I'd be tempted to scale him back a little in terms of stats or power, since I've played a few times with very effective snipers and they can lead to a short game.  All depends on the playing environment of course.

The crude bionic leg and the gasmask should give the model some character, and it's always nice to have a grudge of some kind (in this case, against heretics).

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Offline Swarbie

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Re: A newcomers Attempt
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2010, 01:42:16 PM »
Yeah, there are a number of sniper rifles in Marco's revised armoury. Not to mention a veritable planet's-worth of other weapons  :P

This seems like a pretty good character to me, not overpowered (except for very high BS, but justifiable since he's a sniper and doesn't seem to have trained for close combat). The only real issue I have is with the Exitus rifle: the things are powerful, and damn near impossible for someone who isn't a member of the Vindicare temple to get hold of. Even an Ordo Sicarius Inquisitor could have difficulties getting hold of one.

On a more minor note, I'd love to see the background extended a bit, and I agree with perhaps having his squad used as muscle before he was noticed by the Inquisitor.
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Offline InquisitorHeidfeld

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Re: A newcomers Attempt
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2010, 01:44:12 PM »
For a rifle...
How about an Autogun (equivalent to an assault rifle) with some optics mounted? It's not Enemy at the Gates and he's not going to be pulling off the 2000 yard shots but it's a much more sensible weapon for a Guardsman who would feel the need for a certain amount of versatility.

I would subliminate references to Rogue Vindicare personally... IIRC it's not clear how much knowledge even members of an elite military force like the Imperial Guard have of the Temples but I would wager names at the very least would not be known, most likely any mention of their existence is the subject of rumour and tale rather than substantiatted fact.
Instead I would talk about "enemy sniper", build up his disruptive effect prior to the potential assassination (let's face it, he's nowhere near quick or clever enough to stop a Temple Assassin before he takes his shot, though if the assassin's been seeding chaos for some time it is feasible to end his operation coincidentally before he takes a shot which would rob the camp of a senior officer).

I'd also have to ask how someone who would have to be so far above average remains so average...
His entire Regiment is executed, ten thousand or more men and only he is saved. Why? To be picked out from among them he would need to stand as far above the best of them as the best stood above the average, he would have to be clearly unique...
Clearly enough that he would be picked out in the first few minutes. His Colonel and officers might hold the attention for a moment as the benefit of their rank might entitle them to be shot singly, but the men would be executed wholesale, machinegunned as a mass perhaps, gassed or bombed... It would need to be mechanical...

Offline InquisitorHeidfeld

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Re: A newcomers Attempt
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2010, 02:14:14 PM »
Oh, and lose the melee a fire warrior part...

For a start it's a meta-insult in that it refers to statistics which the troops have no knowledge of. More importantly the difference between a human and a Tau Fire Warrior is equivalent to the difference between a trained and an untrained human, hand to hand combat is not, by any means, going to be entirely one sided.
When soldiers meet farmers they know that afterwards there are going to be a lot of dead farmers... they also know that a lot of their mates are going to be screaming their last with rusty pitchforks in their guts.

Guardsmen who have faced Tau are going to remember them as tough, canny opponents who outgunned them badly. They're going to remember clinging to cover as incoming fire burned holes in steel plate, splashed or cored through their comrades and they're going to remember single shots punching holes through tanks from stem to stern, submunitions turning everyone in a room into pincushions or mere red mist... Belittling such an opponent is unlikely.
Even if they're relying on their Primer it's unlikely that the political office is going to make such suggestions, perhaps it would say that they "don't have the stomach for a real fight" or suggest that their depth perception makes them unsuited for close encounters but the last thing they want is for troops to see combat with a xenos as easy, in that event the first casualties would have a shattering effect of morale.

Offline Kaled

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Re: A newcomers Attempt
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2010, 02:22:45 PM »
Does being a sniper justify a high BS? Snipers take time to aim, tracking their target over a period of time, but a character with a high BS is able to make accurate shots without aiming. A sniper could be portrayed with a lower BS and a skill such as Deadeye Shot. Of course a sniper could be good at snap shots and have a high BS, but the justification shouldn't just be that he's a sniper.
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: A newcomers Attempt
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2010, 03:49:42 PM »
Well, I do like my Exitus Rifle, since I didn´t find an appropiate Sniper Rifle in the Armoury?
Assuming you've actually looked at my Revised Armoury (I linked to it on Warseer, but if you missed it see here)...

Starting with projectile weapons, there are six different variants of projectile based sniper rifles, two high powered battle rifles that would be good if scoped, and even the hunting rifles can serve a sniper type character very well. Lasgun and long-las variants... literally, THOUSANDS of possible parts combinations. And then there's the needle rifle, which if equipped with explosive needles, can make quite a mess.

(And there are a few ammunition variants for the solid shot weapons which are good for sniper characters).

I'll admit that the basic armoury in the rulebook sucks as far as sniper weapons (with only the "Hunting Rifle" even seeming like a worthwhile choice), but I've gone a long way to trying to fix that with the Revised Armoury.

For the reasons Kaled and I went into on Warseer, the Exitus Rifle really is not suitable equipment for a guardsman, and his superiors in the regiment wouldn't (perhaps couldn't) allow him to have it.

~~~~~

What I said about the Vindicare does still stand, and I think Inquisitor Heidfeld's suggestion is probably the best one - just make it some other enemy sniper, possibly one who's been causing mayhem for some time.

~~~~~

I'd also agree with Kaled's suggestion that a sniper isn't necessarily a good snapshot. Sharpshooting is in the aiming skill, not necessarily the "instinct" of a snapshot. (I know some people who are good snapshots but rubbish sharpshooters - and vice versa.)

Perhaps dropping his BS by 10-20 points (probably to high 60s) and giving him some kind of sniper skill would better represent him. A skill that increased his aim bonus with basic weapons to +30% would do very nicely.
It would also encourage playing him more like a sniper, carefully aiming and waiting for the right shot.
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Offline Ynek

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Re: A newcomers Attempt
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2010, 12:18:20 AM »
Well, actually, although it's a bit of a stretch, the idea of a 'rogue vindicare assassin' is still a possibility. However, due to the fact that a Vindicare assassin spends pretty much every moment of every day (when not deployed, of course,) practicing his art, I don't think that an Imperial Guardsman would ever truly be able to kill one at range without substantial luck.

A good tip for any person getting into writing background stories is that if you give a detailled, thorough explanation of the far-fetched bits, and make them sound plausible, they suddenly start to sound like they might actually happen.

So, for instance, instead of just saying: "when he killed a rogue Vindicare Assassin," you might want to say something like: "When he got insanely lucky, and managed to take down a rogue vindicare assassin on what could only ever be described as a complete fluke. However, he would never admit this to anyone, and he is always keen to 'play up' and exaggerate this story to reinforce his reputation as a master of his art. It was also this miraculous good fortune which caught the eye of the Inquisitor, who at first thought that he must be a phenomenally good sniper (and therefore, useful). Grimor's biggest fear is that the Inquisitor one day finds out that his reputation is based primarily on the fact that he was just lucky..."

With that sort of explanation, you might want to give him the 'plain dumb luck' special rule, but I don't think he would really get away with the exitus rifle. I'm sure that the Ordo Sicarius would be very interested if they knew that there was someone other than a vindicare assassin who used one, since I'm sure they track down Assassin-specific equipment that's gone missing as well as assassins themselves. I don't think that they would be too keen on the training facility either, since there's a reason why only assassins get assassin toys and training - they are brainwashed to the point that they're really just tools with no real mind of their own, and therefore, they don't often turn against their 'handlers', since they're brainwashed for loyalty. Imperial Guardsmen are much more pliable, and their loyalties are much easier to break.

Hmm. Just got the first spark of an idea for a new character, there... But that's an idea for another time.

Also, if you replace the fire warrior with an ork grot, it would probably be a bit more fitting, for pretty much the exact reasons listed above. Or perhaps they were clearing out a nest of genestealer hybrids, and a two year old boy (who happened to be a fourth-generation hybrid) beat the crap out of him with a lead-weighted teddy bear, and he never lived it down.
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: A newcomers Attempt
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2010, 03:20:49 AM »
Grimor's biggest fear is that the Inquisitor one day finds out that his reputation is based primarily on the fact that he was just lucky.
That's actually something I said on Warseer - an Inquisitor would immediately recognise the huge degree of luck inherent in killing a Vindicare. (Even another Vindicare would struggle!)
That said, it would take some skill as well - the question is in what proportion people believe the two to be mixed.

Quote
Also, if you replace the fire warrior with an ork grot, it would probably be a bit more fitting
You seem to be hitting the big time with saying things that are sort of conflicting to what I said on Warseer.

His original version did in fact say "Grot", but my comment on that was that with even with that even though his hand-to-hand stats were pretty average, he'd probably still beat a Grot one-on-one. (Of course, the problem with Grots is that they usually outnumber you horribly.)

Of course, as it's a dig from his regimental comrades, it doesn't necessarily have to have a basis in truth. If you think he'd be the kind of person to do that, and depending on his relationship with his squad/platoon mates, it might even be a taunt to shut him up when he's bragging about his sniping skill.

Quote
A good tip for any person getting into writing background stories is that if you give a detailled, thorough explanation of the far-fetched bits, and make them sound plausible, they suddenly start to sound like they might actually happen.
I'd add the alternative. Far-fetched bits can be played up as rumour or exaggeration - I often use lines like "Rumour has it", "Some say" or "He/She'll tell you that" in sections that take a bit more believing.

Not to be overused though - using it too often is pretty lazy and too many vague bits in a character background has problems.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 03:53:30 AM by MarcoSkoll »
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

Offline Dust King

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Re: A newcomers Attempt
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2010, 07:45:32 AM »
Well I recently added a Ex-vindicare assassin to my warband (basically now old and disillusioned after being manipulated by those closest to him, "Rumour has it" ;)). He still has his Exitus rifle... and one shot left. There is no way you could get ammo for a weapon as specialised and exotic as a Exitus rifle. Unless your inquisitor frequently raids vindicare temples for spare ammo he would not be able to get it.

From personal experience Marco's hunting rifle (no scope), BS 80+ and dead eye shot are already a lethal combination, anything more starts to feel broken (the reason I've given my character some health/fitness problems). If you have a character who can kill anyone in his line of sight your GM will not be happy and will find yourself in for severe misfortune  ;D

What's wrong with having the crap beaten out of him by a human? Say he was setting up in the upper story of a house when he got beaten and chased out by the mother of the family living there?


Offline MortalTurky

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Re: A newcomers Attempt
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2010, 09:02:33 AM »
Thank you all, and yepp, I did miss that revised Armoury Marco :S ( but on clicking the link it says this:  Invalid or Deleted File
The key you provided for file download was invalid. This is usually caused because the file is no longer stored on Mediafire. This occurs when the file is removed by the originating user or Mediafire.)

Thank you for all your suggestions, and I think that I will rework his background a little ;)

Greetings, MortalTurky
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 09:06:00 AM by MortalTurky »

Offline Kaled

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Re: A newcomers Attempt
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2010, 10:17:17 AM »
BTW who is the Inquisitor he works for? What faction/Ordo/cabal does he belong to? Who else is in the warband?

Also, how do yo plan to model the character? A cool model can sometimes help circumvent a few issues with background...
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