Magos Esus Io Pan and followers

[TheNephew]

Sorry about the brief format, I'm in a hurry.

I don't have the article(s) to hand, but presumably the Binary Cortex rules give guidelines on how to represent the increased mental capacity. Should that not suggest how to stat him?
Also, it is standard practice to write the strength increase of bionics like S50 (125), where the character's basic strength is 50, but the strength of the bionic arm is 125.
I personally think his mental stats are fine. His Nv is perhaps a little high, since he's not a combat character, but otherwise fine.
If he has mechandrites, they absolutely must go on the profile - since he has no hands, these will be incredibly important for interacting with stuff in game, and provide him with extra capabilities in game as well.
I don't think he needs more types of bolt ammo - he's not a combat character, so he probably wouldn't think to carry it. I'd like to think that the Kraken Penetrators are for 'putting down' any dangerous machinery Govannon resurrects - sentry servitors or the like.
Machine empathy sounds fine to me - either it can represent his ability with machines, and you can make it so he only uses it within arm's reach, or it can be a part of his calling to the Priesthood.
I don't know if it's still the case, but the last piece of fluff I read about Electropriests suggested that they were often quite manic fighters. Possibly his Sg and LD are a bit high, but I don't think it's a significant issue.
I agree with Cade that the hopper should double the number of shots, rather than be a reload option, and check out the Armoury thread, though I haven't myself. Maybe you could give it a Jam rule - firing it in bursts longer than X rounds is Risky, and can Jam the stubber, requiring Y number of actions for somebody else to clear.
HisSg is fine, however - there's no reason for Skitarii to be stupid - I'd expect the inverse to be true, if anything.

Edit: I like Kaled's idea of electro-grafted skills. It seems more likely to me that ballistics would be a more logical strong point for a techpriest, so perhaps that's the way to go. Also, certain combat skills could have technological stand-ins so that your aging and largely metal Magos can have sensible skills. Gyro-stabilisers or modified ammo belts/clips/magazines (I'm not down with the terminology, apologies Marco) and such.

[Kaled]

I don't have the article(s) to hand, but presumably the Binary Cortex rules give guidelines on how to represent the increased mental capacity. Should that not suggest how to stat him?

I'd say his Sg is far too low at 90 - the binary cortex boosts Sg by 70 and grants the Heroic skill, but there is a chance of the two characters disagreeing.  Which brings me to perhaps a more important point - a binary cortex is two brains in one body, so who is the other tech-priest?  Magos Esus Io Pan should be two characters, with two seperate backgrounds that come together at some point.

Also, it is standard practice to write the strength increase of bionics like S50 (125), where the character's basic strength is 50, but the strength of the bionic arm is 125.

Is it?  I'd have said the standard practice was to just write the character's augmented strength in his profile and then to list the strength of the bionic in his equipment list - it's not that often you need to know the strength of an individual arm.

Machine empathy sounds fine to me - either it can represent his ability with machines, and you can make it so he only uses it within arm's reach, or it can be a part of his calling to the Priesthood.

Machine Empathy is associated with the machina-mentors (whatever they are) of the AdMech, so I wouldn't say it's inappropriate either, however another option would be to use the archeotech rules to give him the ability...

I agree with Cade that the hopper should double the number of shots, rather than be a reload option

I came to the conclusion that the intention behind the ammo hopper/Quickload rule is that one load of ammos is fired off, then the character can automatically slot in the next load with just a brief pause.

Have you got models of all these characters?  If so, can we see them?

[Inquisitor Cade]

I imagined Pan's mechanical body being quite tough.  Maybe the answer is addional armour on the bionic locations rather than beefing up his T.

That's the way I'd do it, concidering that bionic limbs work that way.

If you want your character to have more in the way of combat ability, why not give him an Electro-graft to increase his WS/BS or to give him a combat related skill?

I agree that this would be cool. Electro grafts are another wargear item in the explorator article.

I personally think his mental stats are fine.

I still think that the stats for the tech priest archetype are about right, they are high but not massive. While very high mental stats are possible, esspecially for a Magos, they would be exceptional rather than standard. Ld would be the one stat that would be consistently noteably higher in a Magos as they have experiance of authoroty.

I don't think he needs more types of bolt ammo - he's not a combat character, so he probably wouldn't think to carry it. I'd like to think that the Kraken Penetrators are for 'putting down' any dangerous machinery Govannon resurrects - sentry servitors or the like.

He does lead an explorator band, so would be prepared for as much as possible. I like the idea of a 'put it down' round, so I suggest he takes a couple of tempest rounds, as they are extra powerful and have EMP effects. Rare though, so only one or two.

His Sg is fine, however - there's no reason for Skitarii to be stupid - I'd expect the inverse to be true, if anything.

Except that the background lists him as "not very intelligent" and so either this should change or he should have a more fitting Sg.

I'd say his Sg is far too low at 90 - the binary cortex boosts Sg by 70

I'd say 130-140, but, I'm not sure summing the Sg's is appropriate. I'd give a smaller Sg bonus. If two people work on a problem, the less smart probable won't be all that much help to the smarter one, in the same way that two people don't know twice as much as one, because much of their knowledge will overlap.

Machine Empathy  is associated with the machina-mentors (whatever they are) of the AdMech, so I wouldn't say it's inappropriate either, however another option would be to use the archeotech rules to give him the ability...

The Archeotech idea is good though I don't have a clue what 'the machina-mentors' are or why they should have the effects of a psychic power.

[MarcoSkoll]

Is it?  I'd have said the standard practice was to just write the character's augmented strength in his profile and then to list the strength of the bionic in his equipment list - it's not that often you need to know the strength of an individual arm.

Personally, I list unaugmented, split, and augmented strength under my profiles.

Silva, the cyborg from my warband has basic S70, and a S60 left arm, so she has a strength stat that looks like this:
Basic: 70
Split: 60/35
Total: 95

(Actually, it's condensed from that, but to save explaining my abbreviations, I've not used them)

Reason being, I don't see that a bionic arm should confer any bonus to things like jumping or similar things (nor should drugs give bionics a strength boost), so bionics shouldn't be rolled into the stat-line IMHO.
It's for this reason that I find Magos Gruss' profile from the rulebook very annoying, as there's no way of even working out what his basic strength should be.

I like the idea of a 'put it down' round, so I suggest he takes a couple of tempest rounds, as they are extra powerful and have EMP effects. Rare though, so only one or two.

Very very rare. I'm not sure, but I have some recollection that the canon says they're made only on Mars. Seems a mite unlikely though that only one forge world in the galaxy would make such things, so I was a little more open with the description I used for them in the RIA.

But you should consider them at least a high Exotic or a low Legendary in availability. Even for a AdMech bigwig, they'd struggle to accumulate more than a couple of Tempest rounds. But Explorators would probably be more likely to have them than most.

[Kaled]

Maybe I've never considered it a problem as I'm pretty good at mental arithmetic and find it easy to quickly calculate basic strength from augmented strength and the strength of the bionic on the few occasions when it's needed.  However, now I've started using a character with two bionic arms I do need to update my Excel character sheet to start listing augmented & unaugmented strength in the profile, because otherwise determining how far she can jump is impossible.  Occasions where you need to know the strength of one arm are still pretty rare though, so I figure the strength of bionics is fine in the equipment section (that, and it won't fit all neatly in the S box on my character sheet!).

Your system is better than the one TheNephew suggested - listing basic strength and the strength of one arms means you're almost always going to have some mental arithmetic to do.

[MarcoSkoll]

Occasions where you need to know the strength of one arm are still pretty rare though.

Depends on how you play. If you use the strength of a single arm to determine strength bonuses (for single handed wielding), then you'll need to know it more often. Injury of arms (to reduce arm strength) may also affect it.

[Kaled]

If you use the strength of a single arm to determine strength bonuses (for single handed wielding), then you'll need to know it more often.

I've never really understood why you'd do that - it implies that only the muscles in your arm are used to put the force into your blow.  I guess it's a house rule that some people like, but it's not one I use.

I still think that the stats for the tech priest archetype are about right, they are high but not massive. While very high mental stats are possible, esspecially for a Magos, they would be exceptional rather than standard. Ld would be the one stat that would be consistently noteably higher in a Magos as they have experiance of authoroty.

I never saw a problem with the mental stats for the Magos;
Wp=80 => Indicates a hardened leader, which doesn't sound unreasonable for a member of the upper eschelons of the AdMech.
Sg=90 => If a tech-adept or military commander is 80+, then 90 sounds fair for a high ranking member of the AdMech.
Nv=85 => This is the one I'd quibble with; I'd have thought a Magos would have a healthy instinct for self-preservation (and the preservation of his accrued knowledge).
Ld=85 => If 70 is an average soldier, then 85 sounds fine for a Magos who'd be used to command.

[MarcoSkoll]

I've never really understood why you'd do that - it implies that only the muscles in your arm are used to put the force into your blow.

Let's say Silva were striking with only her natural right hand. Should the strength of her left bionic arm provide its strength bonus to the other arm? I'd say it shouldn't.

Okay, she has a lot of bionics and thus quite a lot of weight (although not everyone considers that). She weighs 298 pounds (a bit under twice what she would naturally be), and some of her natural S70 is because of the muscle created as a result of that constant mass.
That weight wouldn't necessarily give her right arm blows much of an advantage (particularly given none of the extra mass is in her right arm or torso) beyond that strength she's gained to deal with it - and that's already accounted for in the generous strength value.

And, I'm not entirely sure it's a house rule. There are a lot of suggestions throughout the rules that each arm has its own individual strength, and therefore presumably strength bonus.
But if you've got an official answer confirming it either way...

Possible solution: You could have it so that her left arm uses the full S95, and her right the unmodified S70 I suppose.

[Kaled]

Let's say Silva were striking with only her natural right hand. Should the strength of her left bionic arm provide its strength bonus to the other arm? I'd say it shouldn't.

Probably not, but just using the strength of her right arm would be wrong too.  I'd say the most logically correct suggestion is the one at the end of your post.

And, I'm not entirely sure it's a house rule. There are a lot of suggestions throughout the rules that each arm has its own individual strength, and therefore presumably strength bonus.

Arms have their own individual strengths and there are mentions of when the strength in one arm should be used, however the rules make no mention of using half strength when calculating the damage bonus and neither is it mentioned in the example.  That was the ruling on the Rules Questions section of the old SG forums anyway, whether you'd consider it 'official' is up to you I guess.

[MarcoSkoll]

I'd say the most logically correct suggestion is the one at the end of your post.

It'd make her blows quite a lot nastier (S95 on her combat claws? Ouch!), and it would then mean that there's no bonus for "unenhanced" people wielding their weapons in two hands (not exactly logical... if I want to swing something hard, two hands are better than one.)

However, I'll look at trying the idea. But I've played it as the other way from the start. We'll see.

...whether you'd consider it 'official' is up to you I guess.

I guess the answer on that one really needs to come from Gav Thorpe (or equally, a source that can be linked back to a Gav ruling) to be truly official.

[Kaled]

and it would then mean that there's no bonus for "unenhanced" people wielding their weapons in two hands (not exactly logical... if I want to swing something hard, two hands are better than one.)

You're right, it's still not a perfect rule - but as with everything it's about getting a balance between simplicity and realism.  If you wanted to make it much more realistic you'd have to look at how much of the force of a blow comes from each muscle group (and that would depend on the type of blow being delivered); and that seems like far too much effort when we're only talking about a small difference in damage.

Anyway, I think we've derailed this thread enough so I'm going to stop there, but I'm happy to discuss it more if you want but we should start a new thread.

[BeardMonk]

Have you got models of all these characters?  If so, can we see them?

Sure, they are in the final stages of building / being basecoated.  I'll get them uploaded over the weekend.

I would only list them if they have rules - i.e. add 20% to tests when interacting with machinery and give him a free improvised attack.  If they perform neither of those functions then I wouldn't list them, but I would expect the GM to allow your character to use them to manipulate things in place of his hands.

The "mechendrites" the magos has serves as his hands, nothing more.  They don't give him extra attacks etc.  I thought that with two implant cutting weapons/arms, he probably had enough cc attacks.

a binary cortex is two brains in one body, so who is the other tech-priest?

I have some extra "fluff" to write i feel.......