Blood Axe Ork Mercs???

[Easy E]

Greetings,

I was wondering if anyone could point me to some rules on using Orks in Inq.  I know it sounds strange, but I am working on a campaign where Ork Blood Axes maybe involved, and was curious if rules for this situation all ready existed. 

Thanks.

[Kaled]

To re-use an answer to a similar question on another forum...

I would suggest that an Ork should be stronger and tougher than a human, but slower; his mental statistics would be generally lower than those of a human apart from his Nerve.

WS=70 BS= 35 S=80 T=90 I=35 Wp=40 Sg=25 Nv=70 Ld=40
Abilities: Furious Assault, True Grit

In another thread on the subject, someone (possibly PO?) made the suggestion that rather than giving orks such a high toughness, instead give them a rule where hits must cause more damage than his BIV to do a level of injury.

Hopefully that's a good starting point to stimulate a discussion...

[ismeno]

2 things; How exactly are the Orks going to be part of the campaign, and more importantly, how are you going to convert/scratchbiuld them in 54mm?

[Kaled]

I was thinking of starting with a LotR troll and converting him into a freebooter - he'd fit quite well into a lot of campaigns, especially ones set on the fringes of Imperial space but he could also be hunting treasure that turned out to be an artefact that is of interest to the Inquisition...

[MarcoSkoll]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my recollection was that Easy E was primarily an Inq28 gamer, so models are unlikely to present a challenge.

[GAZKUL]

I would suggest that an Ork should be stronger and tougher than a human, but slower; his mental statistics would be generally lower than those of a human apart from his Nerve.

WS=70 BS= 35 S=80 T=90 I=35 Wp=40 Sg=25 Nv=70 Ld=40
Abilities: Furious Assault, True Grit

Orks like humans vary so therefore it's imposible to do a generalised stat line, factors such as clan, experience and specialisation have to be taken into acount. a blood axe for example may have a higher sg than other orks, whereas a goff's S and T may be in the low hundreds, try reading the Chapter approved on the ork clans for more ideas. similarly the experience will be a huge factor due to thier ability to develop muscle with more fighting, also an ork awaiting his oppertunity to challenge the boss will gain the nessesary muscle, attitude etc shortly before hand.

I also disagree with the low mental stats, especially the wp, orks are imensely stubborn and notoriously hard to corrupt, they could reasonalbly be given the Force of Will ability to reflect this.

[Kaled]

Orks like humans vary so therefore it's imposible to do a generalised stat line

Yep, but just as it's useful to have a profile for an 'average' human (or an average human soldier, which is often more useful), I'd say it's also useful to have a profile for an 'average' ork boy.  Then it's pretty simple to extrapolate outwards from that.  For the purposes of this discussion I'm going to take an average human soldier as follows;
WS=50 BS=50 S=50 T=45 I=55 Wp=50 Sg=40 Nv=50 Ld=70

Looking at the Rogue Trader RPG rules, an ork character has lower ballistic skill, higher strength and toughness, lower agility and perception (which roughly equate to the sorts of things covered by initiative in Inquisitor), much lower intelligence, slightly lower willpower and considerably lower fellowship, when compared to your average human character.  The story is pretty similar if we look at orks in Dark Heresy.

Now, of course the stats are used in different ways in the different games, but I don't see the stats I suggested as being wildly incorrect - still, there are probably a few tweaks that could be made.

I also disagree with the low mental stats, especially the wp, orks are imensely stubborn and notoriously hard to corrupt, they could reasonalbly be given the Force of Will ability to reflect this.

Orks are difficult to corrupt - but are they difficult to attack psychically?  Willpower mostly comes into play when using or resisting psychic powers.  Maybe it should be increased a bit to represent their stubbornness - and/or perhaps have a rule that gives them a bonus to Wp when it comes to tests involving resisting Chaos and corruption, and when trying to intimidate someone.  

Force of Will makes the character immune to the effects of Fearsome & Terrifying - as far as I'm aware, orks have never had such a rule, so I don't see why they should in Inquisitor.

[GAZKUL]

Orks have powerfull telekinetic abilities subconciously which may help resisting psykic attack.

also there shouldbe something to relect the ork's unflinching self belief and stubornness. also special abiliteis shouls go to different ones, for example a nob would have leadr and a high LD to reflect the fact that they can keep the mob together.

a more realistic base for a boy'd be closer to

WS 82, BS 30, T 90, S 90, I 35, WP 80, NV 75, SG 40, LD  40

Furious Assault, True Grit, force of will, fearsome.

[MarcoSkoll]

Orks have powerfull telekinetic abilities subconciously

That has never been described as "powerful", and it's only the theory of a biologist who all his peers think is off the rails.

WS 82, BS 30, T 90, S 90, I 35, WP 80, NV 75, SG 40, LD  40
Furious Assault, True Grit, force of will, fearsome.

WS - Orks do not have finesse, they rely on brute force in combat, not the precise blows this kind of WS would imply.

BS - I'd perhaps nudge it up 5 (maybe 10 at most) points, but that'll do.

Sg - Orks may not be thick, but a big part of Sg is "Lurnin' un buks". When Sg 50 represents a well educated human, one who's actually put time into study, an Ork is not going to be Sg 40. Literacy and acquisition of knowledge is not a big part of Ork culture.

WP, Nv & Force of Will - Orks enjoy a good fight, but if they die, how are they going to fight tomorrow? They're only fearless (or near it) when they've got all their mates there to back them up.
So while I'd accept them having the Fearsome ability, which would make them immune to Fearsome themselves - thus allowing them to fight Space Marines*/Pit fighters/etc without trouble (Those are going to be good fights) - they do not have the kind of stubbornness and fearlessness you're implying that they'd stand around to fight anything.
*I give them Fearsome, screw the rulebook.

Also, Orks are hard to corrupt because they don't want anything more than they've got. Fighting is all they care about. They don't give a tinker's cuss about what Chaos can offer them (well, perhaps Khorne, but then they'd just be doing what they were before, so the difference is moot).
It is not because they're intensely strong willed. In fact, it's the inverse to an extent - they can't overcome their basic nature to do anything else.

[Kaled]

The problem with fearsome is that it's used so inconsistently - I often think that a lot more things should be fearsome or a lot less. But I'd have no problem with orks being considered fearsome by most characters.

Marco covered pretty much everything in his post. I do think the strength you've suggested is too high, and the toughness definitely is - better to use a rule such as the one suggested earlier to represent their resilience. I also think a rule whereby orks get a boost to maybe Nv and Ld based on how many other orks are nearby would be a good way to represent their mob mentality.

Maybe tonight I'll type up the statlines from RT/DH - at least that way you can see what I was working from. And maybe you can post what you were working from for your statline - I still don't see the justification for Force of Will.

[Easy E]

Thanks for the thoughts guys.  I'm not really familiar enough to make a real go at it.   

The more I think about it, I think this is going to be a lone Ork acting as an Enforcer for a local gang in an area that has only a very small Ork population.  It is a wild and lawless area of the planet, where might tends to make right.  Since these are lawless folks, they will take in an Ork to help bust some heads. 

So, I don't think he necessarily has to be a Blood Axe any more.  Also, GW has moved FAR away from the idea of Ork Klanz.  That beuing said, I like them and are VERY familiar witht he different Klanz in ork society. 

Finally, no plans for a 54MM ork as I play INQ28 and Inquismunda style games.       

[Darksinger]

Im with Gazkul- the orks are incredibly hard to corrupt and also, with the exeption of squigs, psychic- even the grots are capable of gnerating enough waagh energy to control their weaponry. Not only that, but blood axes are devious, intelligent and even more ruthless than your standard orks, so really they should have higher stats than a bog standard human.

[Kaled]

orks are incredibly hard to corrupt and also, with the exeption of squigs, psychic- even the grots are capable of gnerating enough waagh energy to control their weaponry.

But does being hard to corrupt and unconsciously psychic make you more immune to psychic powers (the main use of Wp for non-psykers)?  Rulesets such as Dark Heresy & Rogue Trader don't (unless I missed something) seem to think so.  Do any other rulesets have orks being more resistent to psychic powers?

Not only that, but blood axes are devious, intelligent and even more ruthless than your standard orks, so really they should have higher stats than a bog standard human.

Higher than human in what way?  Physically, mentally or both?  Do you agree with Gazkul's statline entirely?  Or do you have your own suggestion?

[MarcoSkoll]

I'm with Gazkul- the orks are incredibly hard to corrupt

Because of their simple mindset! They are hard to corrupted because they don't want any more than grog to drink, meat to eat and enemies to fight. You can't promise them power, tales of how they could strike down their enemies in arcane ways - because they only want to hit the enemy in the face with a Choppa, not "summun lightnin' und demuns".
This does not make them strong minded. I might give them heavy bonuses to resist "Persuasion" (or a better choice, penalties to those people trying to persuade them), because there's almost nothing you can offer them that they want - but they are actually pretty weak minded, just following instinct and biological urges.

As far as the psychic argument - tosh. Psychic creatures are MORE susceptible to the warp - that's why the Imperium kill psykers practically on sight, because they're magnets for it. (And it's why untouchables, with less/zero/negative "warp stuff" are less susceptible.)
It is only when a psychic creature has conscious control of the warp that they can become more resistant, actively fending it off.

For the most part, while trained psykers are candidates for high Wp values, I would give an untrained psyker a lower Wp than an average human.
I'll accept that Orks are not more susceptible because of their psychic nature, but I won't go with less.

Not only that, but blood axes are devious, intelligent and even more ruthless than your standard orks

But Sg is NOT just intelligence - anyway, what Orks have is Kunnin', not smarts.
While I might give Orks an Sg bonus for some things - perhaps using machinery, representing their "subconsicous psychic" expectation that it should work - they are not well read and do not have education.

(Ork Meks, however, would be a candidate for a much bigger machinery bonus.)

[JoelMcKickass]

I'd say an intelligent Ork is on par with an average human mentally, i'd also say the average Ork is pretty cowardly on his own, whilst those that aren't are more likely to be Nobs. Cunning and intelligence are too different things. So whilst an Ork may be able to set a trap, or be aware a trap has been set, it'd wouldn't be able to comprehend "The Illustrated Works Of Gideon Ravenor for Toddlers".