Author Topic: The Ordo Chronos  (Read 9930 times)

Offline Molotov

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The Ordo Chronos
« on: April 26, 2011, 06:36:17 PM »
Interesting blog article here by Andy Hoare, who created the Ordo Chronos for FFG: link.

Also, he postulates the existence of an "Ordo Redactor", working in a similar role to Marco's "Ordo Perditus".

Interesting reading, hope you enjoy it too.
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Offline DapperAnarchist

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Re: The Ordo Chronos
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2011, 06:58:49 PM »
Just because its called Ordo Reductor in the Calixian Sector doesn't mean its Ordo Reductor everywhere :D I've been tempted to make a character who gets into all sorts of trouble because his seal says "Inquisitor of the Ordo Traitorii", which is one out-of-the-way Conclave's version of the Ordo Hereticus, but some Puritans think either 1) it must mean Traitor Inquisitors, or 2) that its a breach of the rules in some technical way...

But that is an interesting one indeed. I disagree that Sicarius and Sepulturum aren't relevant - the Sicarius is separate to keep its secrets, being the most secretive of the lot (usually) and Sepulturum isn't just Plague Zombies, but disease of all kinds...
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Offline Shannow

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Re: The Ordo Chronos
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2011, 07:05:00 PM »
Thanks for the link :) great read and definitely something that has gone on my to do list,,, 1,210 and counting......
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: The Ordo Chronos
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2011, 08:02:36 PM »
Certainly interesting.

I do partially agree with his "Well, why isn't this within the jurisdiction of Ordo X?" issue - which is why Katlien Vance was written as part of the Hereticus, but part of a cabal within that interests itself with the heresy of Inquisitors specifically, as opposed to the original note on the contact card from the Spring Conclave that she was part of an Ordo specifically for overseeing the Inquisition - but not entirely.

An Ordo is simply a large group of individuals which have come together in an organised fashion to pool their resources. If Inquisitors wish to pool together to stop Barney the Dinosaur specifically and call it the Ordo Jurassic, then it will happen.
Why they would wish to be outside the greater power of one of the primary Ordos is another matter, but it's an interesting question.

In many cases, I imagine that the Ordos Minoris are actually often more sub-Ordos than Ordos all of their own. The Inquisitors within doubtless have a spectacular number of ties to the relevant Ordos Majoris that can be called upon as needed.

Also, he postulates the existence of an "Ordo Redactor", working in a similar role to Marco's "Ordo Perditus".
I'm inclined to agree with DapperAnarchist here.

One of the themes I wrote into the Ordo Perditus background was that an Ordo of secrets would be secretive about what they do, because, to quote Inquisitor Byssus: "The amateur hides what a secret holds. The master hides even that there is a secret at all."

With that in mind, it would be very them for the Ordo to have different names in different places.
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Offline Dolnikan

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Re: The Ordo Chronos
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2011, 03:31:08 PM »
The ordos are, from my point of view too present in the fluff, I would think that most inquisitors would have some affiliations with all of them they know, most wouldn't dedicate themself to only one specific threat but would fight that what threatens the Imperium no matter the guise it takes. I also think that the ordos would mostly be a collection of small, local groups without much ordo-wide interactions.
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: The Ordo Chronos
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2011, 04:06:45 PM »
most wouldn't dedicate themself to only one specific threat but would fight that what threatens the Imperium no matter the guise it takes.
The idea that a Hereticus Inquisitor only fights heretics, a Xenos Inquisitor only aliens, etc, is a misconception. Inquisitors can approach whichever threats they please, but they will usually prefer to go after those which fit their speciality - and as there are always multiple threats, there are always choices for which they chase down.

Also, I think you're forgetting the old adage "Jack of all trades, master of none" - specialisation is no surprise.

As an example, you don't get "Generic emergency services" - you have the Police for when someone's breaking into your shed, the Ambulance for when you've fallen off your shed, and the Fire brigade for when your shed is burning down. (They are also known to deal with non-shed related incidents.)

Nor do you get qualifications in "Everything" - you get Physicians, Engineers, Chemists, Lawyers, Actors, Historians, etc. People choose to specialise and take on one particular area.

That the Inquisition would also specialise to bring the right skills and the right equipment to face a given threat is common sense.

Of course, they are sometimes called upon to deal with threats which no-one better prepared can reach, and will sometimes reach a threat to find out it's not what it seemed, so they will sometimes have to soldier on against their speciality, but the cases in which no-one else can help will be relatively rare - and non-specialisation would be unlikely to benefit them significantly enough in these cases to make it worth it overall.
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Offline Dolnikan

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Re: The Ordo Chronos
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2011, 04:17:40 PM »
In normal life people tend to specialize because they function in large organizations. An inquisitor however is a lone agent and usually has no choice in what he or she will uncover, it's very hard to go looking for daemon cults, one would usually look for any kind of prescribed cult activity. Of course, that does depend on the amount of inquisitors there will be active at a certain time in a specific area. In most situations noone will be around to take on a given threat. It would be a great dereliction of duty for an inquisitor to go after only what they prefer, or even prefer to go after those enemies.

Of course some inquisitors will specialize, I think looking outside, a xenos is the most likely one, daemons, heresy and witchcraft are just too mixed together to specialize in one of those.
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Offline Shannow

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Re: The Ordo Chronos
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2011, 04:27:52 PM »
daemons, heresy and witchcraft are just too mixed together to specialize in one of those.

I think perhaps your still viewing daemons as 40k daemons in this particular respect. Witchcraft and heresy is separate as it is relatively low level in terms of power but has the great potential to corrupt other. Daemons however are series warp events that are massive threats to entire planets,,, though basic skills in routing cults out may remain the same I would certainly argue a hereticus inquisitor is much less likely to be able to cope with a daemon trying to tear its way from warp space or possessing an already potent psyker.

Crossover? Yes. But the same as to make indistinguishable? I would say no. BUT the above is entirely my take and you are of course entitled to your opinion  :)

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Time to die.

Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: The Ordo Chronos
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2011, 05:04:21 PM »
In normal life people tend to specialize because they function in large organizations.
What else do you think the Inquisition is other than a large organization?

Quote
An inquisitor however is a lone agent and usually has no choice in what he or she will uncover
Not in the slightest.

An Inquisitor will have a vast network of informants, as well as no small number of allies with their own contacts. Their Ordo as a whole will be contacted by any number of Imperial organisations requiring some form of aid on a daily basis. But it would be very, very rare for an Inquisitor to discover the first leads on any case themselves.

What this means is that at any one time, there will be a huge number of possible threats to chase down.

Yes, there are the cases that something is not as it seems. But firstly, as Shannow says, it's not that vague.
Secondly, all Inquisitors will have developed experience and skills which can be applied to more generic cases, so they would not be powerless in the face of any other threat but their specialisation.
Thirdly, you can get on the phone to guys who know the subject better.

And if there are no/few specialists, that last one can't happen. Imagining ringing an Inquisition support line:
"Yes, I have tried stabbing the daemon. I tried that first, it didn't kill it. Look, I just want you to send out a guy to have a look at it!"
"I'm sorry, sir, all our daemon killing operatives are busy at the moment, and we have a 16 month waiting list. Have you tried intoning the 2,137 verses of Saint Kelola's prayer against the daemon?"
"Yes, but it killed my priest as he was chanting."
"Well, have you tried getting a new one sir?"
"Yes, and it killed him too."
"Oh. I see. Have you tried closing all the windows, then opening them again?"
"What fething good would that do?!"
"Don't get angry at me sir. It's on my script."
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Offline Shannow

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Re: The Ordo Chronos
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2011, 05:29:01 PM »

"Yes, I have tried stabbing the daemon. I tried that first, it didn't kill it. Look, I just want you to send out a guy to have a look at it!"
"I'm sorry, sir, all our daemon killing operatives are busy at the moment, and we have a 16 month waiting list. Have you tried intoning the 2,137 verses of Saint Kelola's prayer against the daemon?"
"Yes, but it killed my priest as he was chanting."
"Well, have you tried getting a new one sir?"
"Yes, and it killed him too."
"Oh. I see. Have you tried closing all the windows, then opening them again?"
"What fething good would that do?!"
"Don't get angry at me sir. It's on my script."


This resulted in regurgitated apple and a coughing fit! Kudos Marco kudos  ;D
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tanhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

Time to die.

Offline Ulgavitch

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Re: The Ordo Chronos
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2011, 07:11:27 PM »
I just laughed my tea all over the monitor at that!

Thanks Marco, your brilliance owes me a new monitor.  :)

Offline Dolnikan

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Re: The Ordo Chronos
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2011, 08:12:23 AM »
That's a funny situation.

However, calling someone for their expertise would be a bit difficult due to the relative slowness of communication in the forty-first millennium. Added to that complication inquisitors tend to be a bit secretive about where they actually are(except for the famous types who have a slight tendency to be in the public) When dealing with especially something daemonic you would want to act as quickly as possible, any delay might lead to full-scale incursions which lead to vastly more work, not only in removing the threat but then removing the evidence.

What I meant with inquisitors being lone agents working outside of large organizations is that they have a far greater degree of autonomy, that is the very reason they were set up in the first place. The inquisition is a very small organization by the standards of the time, of course it will still be larger than any we have on earth now but that is due to the scale of the Imperium. Of course inquisitors have large networks of agents under them who will be capable of doing much of the work themselves, the inquisitor will only appear when his or her presence is required.

I am in no way denying that many inquisitors will be members of an ordo but merely that a significant proportion of them would be unaffiliated.
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Offline Kaled

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Re: The Ordo Chronos
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2011, 10:13:37 AM »
An Inquisitor wouldn't need to know the whereabouts of a particular expert - one of the purposes of Inquisitorial Conclaves is to act as a central point of contact. An Inquisitor is supposed to inform the local Conclave that he's operating in their area - he can then send a message to the local fortress and it should be passed to someone who has the required specialist knowledge. Plus an Inquisitor is going to have sufficient contacts within the Inquisition that if he doesn't know someone who can help then, he should know someone who knows someone who can help.

Joining an Ordo is a shortcut to setting up this sort of web of contacts - someone in the club is bound to know someone who can help. Plus membership brings with it the use of the Ordos resources - which in the case of the big three are considerable. Not joining doesn't mean an Inquisitor can't have contacts and resources, indeed the Inquisition as a whole has these in abundance, but it can make it harder for him to get such things.
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: The Ordo Chronos
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2011, 11:32:26 AM »
As Kaled says, the Ordo itself will have a central base of operations in each sector and subsector. You don't need to get in contact with an individual Inquisitor specifically (although, of course, one should suspect that any Inquisitor worth their salt has allies in the other Ordos they can contact directly).

I think the thing here is you're underestimating the vast power and aid an Ordo can offer - it is after all dozens, if not hundreds, of Inquisitors in your sector alone all pooling their resources - and overestimating how much not specialising would help.

While I earlier referred to multiple, rather disjointed qualifications, in reality, Inquisitors of different Ordos will share a lot of common experience.
Unless it's a particularly large scale threat, most Inquisitors will have enough experience and common sense to deal with other areas - many of the investigation skills will be the same, and a bolter works as well on most of the threats.
And if it is a large scale threat, casual dabbling in the area is unlikely to be enough to help! That's when it's time to get in contact with the appropriate Ordo and request their aid specifically.

Obviously, not every Inquisitor will join an Ordo, but those who wish to shirk the massive support of an Ordo will be rare. Contrary to what the Rulebook says (in the Monodominants description), I suspect that even those Inquisitors who do think everything is an equal threat and don't wish to personally specialise will probably chip in with an Ordo simply to get access to the contacts and resources it can offer.
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Offline Dolnikan

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Re: The Ordo Chronos
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2011, 12:42:27 PM »
I think the thing here is you're underestimating the vast power and aid an Ordo can offer - it is after all dozens, if not hundreds, of Inquisitors in your sector alone all pooling their resources - and overestimating how much not specialising would help.

I think that there we have reached the center of our disagreeing, the number of inquisitors in a region of space at the same point in time. With dozens or even hundreds of inquisitors in a sector the ordos would indeed gain such power and importance, however, if there are never more than say, ten inquisitors in a sector this would change. Much more would depend on far more informal ties between individuals without needing anything like an ordo, especially because some of these would have been trained by others in the same region. With this number of inquisitors in a sector they would have to be far more self-sufficient than when there are hundreds.
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