Author Topic: Philosophia Sacravi  (Read 6173 times)

Thuellai

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Re: Philosophia Sacravi
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2009, 06:55:02 PM »
And it was my understanding that for most of the Admech, or at least a statistically significant portion of it, the two are considered one and the same.  I could change the terminology if it would please, but it seems a bit much when it's obvious who he's referring to either way.

In the Skitarii's case at least, technically speaking Sahiya was raised as a machine-cultist, just in an unusual way...  And Skitarii are much more likely to be drawn from outside.  Besides, I've met plenty of people who became religious later in life or changed religions, and most of them might have joined "later" but the only two to join later than like, age 8 were the Technopath (Who's a special case anyway) and Vartan (a Skitarii)

Offline Kaled

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Re: Philosophia Sacravi
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2009, 07:52:16 PM »
And it was my understanding that for most of the Admech, or at least a statistically significant portion of it, the two are considered one and the same.
I assume you're referring to the Emperor/Omnissiah here - yes, they are considered one and the same, but a member of the Cult Mechanicus is a disciple of the latter and his background would read better if it referred to the Omnissiah.  BTW, have you read the 'Corpus Auxilla Mechanicus' article?  Basileus' ideas seem very similar to those of the Omnissiads.

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In the Skitarii's case at least, technically speaking Sahiya was raised as a machine-cultist, just in an unusual way...
A machine cultist from a world set up by a member of the Inquisition.  Why did the Inquisitor care about creating a recruitment base for strong, mechanically apt fanatics?  What's his link with the Mechanicus?  And would the AdMech trust recruits given to them by the Inquisition?  If I was the Magos in charge, I'd be suspicious that the Inquisitor was supplying recruits from this world in order to infiltrate the Cult Mechanicus in an attempt to break their monopoly on technology.

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And Skitarii are much more likely to be drawn from outside.
 
Are they?  As far as I've ever read, Skitarii are recruited from Forge Worlds - I can't find any mention of them recruiting from elsewhere in the Imperium.

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Besides, I've met plenty of people who became religious later in life or changed religions
In our society, changing religion is not that big a deal - but we're not talking about our society.  The Imperium is filled with religious fanatics, many of whom view the entire Cult Mechanicus as little more than heretics.  And the Mechanicus guards it's knowledge jealously - they're not going to initiate someone who simply decides to change religion.

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and most of them might have joined "later" but the only two to join later than like, age 8 were the Technopath (Who's a special case anyway) and Vartan (a Skitarii)
Basileus was a pupil at the Schola Progenium, a religious school run by the Ministorum.  I guess there could have been an AdMech Genetor on the staff, and that he might have been allowed to take on Basileus as a pupil - but it's not exactly normal.  Then Cibran, the nephew of an Imperial planetary lord, was found by the Inquisition who placed him in the Mechanicus rather than recruiting him themselves or sending him to the Schola Progenium.  Eiglius' story is reasonable - he's a member of the Cult Mechanicus, but is not exactly a trusted one.  Vartan was born on Nocturne, home of the Salamanders chapter and thus presumably a member of the Promethean cult, but later joined the AdMech; again, an unusual story.  And Sahiya I've mentioned earlier.

Almost all of your characters have backgrounds that are rather unusual - if it were just one or two it wouldn't be so bad, but as a group it stretches my credulity too far.  Going back to Vartan - does Nocturne produce regiments for the Guard?  Most chapter home worlds don't.  Given that Nocturne is known for doing a lot of trader with the AdMech, a better story might be that after failing at the trials to become a marine, Vartan felt disgraced and stowed-away on an AdMech ship where he was later found and brought up in the cult.
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Thuellai

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Re: Philosophia Sacravi
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2009, 12:36:41 PM »
The thing is, fanatical people tend to be, in my experience, the most likely to radically shift to suit themselves - even if they do bring some of their old ideas into anything they learn anew.  That's part of the reason I felt Basileus, with his Schola background, would be so likely to conflate the Emperor and the Omnissiah and that's why he follows a philosophy that does so.

The Inquisitor was presumably using the cultists for his own purpose during his lifetime, but has since, I noted, died off.  At that point, with its purpose forgotten, a planet near enough to a Forge World to have been used for resources that already has a large base of mechanically-inclined people seems like a fine recruiting station to me.

I'm not sure necessarily on whether Adeptus Non planets actually do contribute to the Guard, and I may change Vartan's story there.  As far as it goes, the Promethean cult is noted as sharing a lot of ideas with the Mechanicus, which is why I figured as a base for someone to come off of it made sense - they'd already have a lot of shared ideas.

To me, also, religion or not the Mechanicum is also an organization and, especially in the case of a fairly illicit organization like this particular one, talent can go a long way.  They're already breaking a fair number of rules just in their aims, and Basileus is noted to have his finger in quite a few pies, giving him the resources to find these people.  Most of them are already from a background that gives them a fitting connection as well - one is a savant who was calculating and setting up trade networks by age 6, and the others are all from mechanical backgrounds in some way - two are members of one machine cult or another and the other's a Technopath (and as you mentioned, not really much of a trusted member of the group)

I'm not saying I disagree with your points - I find them very well thought out.  I'm just presenting where my characters come from.  I may make small edits, but at this point to reset them in line with your views would require an almost entire rewrite and change of the character and that is more than I'm willing to do.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 12:59:01 PM by Thuellai »

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Re: Philosophia Sacravi
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2009, 04:02:53 PM »
I don't see the AdMech being a closed culture, although it is a closed shop.

I would say that it would be entirely possible for people of that inclination to drift into the AdMech and, although advancement within the ranks would be very difficult, I wouldn't see it as being impossible.

After all, many non-cultists encounter Mechanicus members about their normal day-to-day work and life and, if they are drawn to the study of technology, the cultist is likely to bring them into the circle if it would be of benefit to the cult (it's a cult after all).  Eventually, they will hit a bar beyond which they cannot progress without being a member of the cult so, if they want to proceed, they take their oaths, surrender their bodies and get admission.

Of course, people with nothing to offer the cult wouldn't even be considered.  But such a huge organization as the AdMech can always use new grunts and, if a non-member shows a technical gift, then surely it's better for him to be in the cult than to be out of it...?

[This has sparked a few ideas about the use of classic cult recruitment methods within the the AdMech - the Imperial Cult isn't a true cult at all, of course, but the Cult Mechanicus is an entirely different piscine agitator.

R.

Offline Kaled

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Re: Philosophia Sacravi
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2009, 07:27:02 PM »
I'd agree with that - if you're born on a Forge World, then your talents are more likely to be noticed; and hence induction into, and advancement within, the ranks of Tech-priests is more likely than if you're born an outsider.  I'd say that among the most likely/interesting routes for an outsider to join is by coming to the notice of a tech-priest (in much the way Basileus did at the Schola*); or by being caught by the Mechanicus illicitly tinkering with something and given the choice join or be turned into a servitor (presumably this would only happen if you showed sufficient talent and I'd imagine it'd take a long time to be trusted enough to advance); or by an underground cult recruiting members and those with aptitude being inducted into the AdMech proper.  I'm currently less convinced by the routes Cibran and Vartan joined by - maybe there is a good reason the Inquisitor turned Cibran over to the AdMech rather than utilizing his talents himself, or why Vartan was assigned to the Skitarii, but the sparse backgrounds given here don't really explain it sufficiently IMHO.


* Although, I'm not entirely convinced that a school run by the Ecclesiarchy would employ members of a rival cult, especially as tutors, however they are likely to have some AdMech presence - even if just enginseers and the like to keep the place ticking over.
I like to remember things my own way... Not necessarily the way they happened.

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