Author Topic: A question on daemon binding  (Read 2161 times)

Offline wargame_insomniac

  • Inquisitor
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
A question on daemon binding
« on: July 23, 2011, 09:41:05 PM »
A question- how would binding/banishing a daemon work? I guess that is a bit of an open ended question. So how realistic would it be that a failed banishment would not have destroyed the daemon but simply bound it to material plane, in this case the sword?

I am thinking along the lines of my character's mentor being in Ordo Malleus and engaged a daemon in combat. He severely weakened the daemon but was mortally wounded in turn. My character stepped in and tried to finish the job. But lacking the mental strength and expertise of his mentor he was unable to successfully banish the damon, despite it's weakened state. So the banishment did'nt work as intended and resulted in the daemon being bound to the sword instead.

How does this sound as a character background? Is it feasible?

Thanks

James

Offline Alyster Wick

  • Grand Lord Inquisitor
  • *****
  • Posts: 759
  • Talk is cheap, let's scan.
Re: A question on daemon binding
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2011, 09:57:14 PM »
It's warpcraft, sounds feasible enough.

There are any number of "rules" that you could impose to refute or say that it's unreasonable but I'd come down on the side of saying that depending on the adept and the daemon and the ceremony you could have any number of things happen. One thing you might think about is how the resultant weapon may be different than other "standard" daemon weapons. After all, it's difficult to create a daemon weapon, it stands to reason that one which was created accidentally wouldn't work quite the same as one that was created intentionally.

Offline MarcoSkoll

  • Arch Data-Archivist
  • Administrator
  • Grand Lord Inquisitor
  • *****
  • Posts: 5054
  • Time for some thrilling heroics.
Re: A question on daemon binding
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2011, 10:05:12 PM »
I don't dislike Alyster's idea of it working oddly, so I'd be prepared to see the fluff bent, but...

... normally, binding a daemon normally takes a vessel that has been marked with a great many wards, inscriptions and runic sorcery to keep it bound. That is if it's bound against its will (as most daemons would be), but it would still take something more than just its will to anchor it for any huge length of time.

The sword could theoretically be marked unwittingly with powerful binding runes (one could imagine that a Malleus Inquisitor add anti-daemonic wards to their sword, but perhaps these "anti-daemonic runes" were added from a heavily error ridden transcription of an ancient tome of knowledge).

Or, something like the background for Mynarc the Unforgiven, where he unintentionally takes up a sword that has been prepared for a binding and accidentally completes the process with another "victim".
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

Offline wargame_insomniac

  • Inquisitor
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
Re: A question on daemon binding
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2011, 11:09:23 PM »
My rationale for it was I wanted am Inquisitpr only just starting down the Xanthite route. What I liked about the Eisenhorn trilogu was that Eisenhorn started out as an Amlathian and considered himself a Puritan. I did'nt want to duplicate this too close and thus avoided the Daemonhost idea (plus I do n't have daemonhost model).

So I figured that the daemon sword would be great first step on the road to Xanthite route. I wanted something that meant he took the first step somewhat involuntarily, possibly not even realising the rammifications straight away. And then afterwards rationalising it as just one small step and what harm could it possibly do.....

Thinking about what you said about bindings and anti-daemonic runes- how about my character was working on them but had nt fully mastered that aspect yet.  He was working on the runes on the sword when they were forced to react quickly to a suspected daemonic incursion. When his master was killed by daemon he reacted instinctively and struck the daemon with sword "slaying" him.

He submitted his report to the Ordo sector chief and was promoted from Interrogator to full Inquisitor for his valour in "slaying" the daemon. It was only after the event that character realised the truth of what happened and then found he could nt go back and admit the truth.

Possibly he only realised the truth when he came to completing the runes on the sword.

Thanks for your help

James

PS: I am thinking of making the daemon Tzeentchian to have something different.

Offline Flinty

  • Inquisitor
  • ***
  • Posts: 247
Re: A question on daemon binding
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2011, 10:07:18 PM »
I'd second Alyster and Marco in that whatever powers or effects the daemon weapon posesses, they should be rather different from the 'stock' effect listed in the rulebook. Tzeenthican demons... maybe something that distorts the user at times of emotional stress, err...gives a stat or skill boost at the very least - I'm sure you can come up with something more interesting and dramatic.

One point that grates with me is the dying boss and the plucky sidekick bit - hell, if the big guy couldn't do it, what chance has the work experience lackey got? Still not keen on that as a means of gaining the Inquisitorial Rosette either; someone died, why reward failure?

Its your guy of course, but not every warband needs an Inquisitor - don't forget acolytes may spend 30 or 40 years before being recognised as suitable for promotion, and a larger number must never make the cut at all.

Luckily you have sidestepped much of this with the involuntary/unknowing first step; maybe he ends up with a very unstable binding, something like random control (roll for the weapons WP every game/set number of turns/after a 'major' event) varying levels of manifestation (say from spooky wailing to devastating warp fires) to possibly total dominance of the PC for a few turns? Either way it sounds like he's got the potential to be an interesting PC.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2011, 10:09:02 PM by Flinty »
Neanderthal and Proud!

Offline wargame_insomniac

  • Inquisitor
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
Re: A question on daemon binding
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2011, 10:24:22 PM »
Ok- I was wary of having too many special rules so was going to stick to the rulebook daemon properties. However I quite like the idea of the unstable bindings leading to a control roll after a significant event. How about after every time character uses a psychic power and/or inflicts damage in close combat.

Well I was figuring that the mentor had done most of the work seriously wounding the daemon before my character attempted to finish it off.

As to your suggestion of not making my character a full Inquisitor, it feels a bit wrong having a mere Inetrrogator wandering around with a daemon sword. So I want to keep him as a newly promoted inquisitor, say in the last decade.


Thanks very much

James

Offline MarcoSkoll

  • Arch Data-Archivist
  • Administrator
  • Grand Lord Inquisitor
  • *****
  • Posts: 5054
  • Time for some thrilling heroics.
Re: A question on daemon binding
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2011, 11:40:17 PM »
... inflicts damage in close combat.
I like that as an idea.

How about this as an idea:

Every game it starts with a moderate Wp, and only one daemonic power (determined randomly from a table). However, every time the sword causes injury to another character, it has a chance of gaining an extra random power (this chance would probably be related to the damage caused, so more damage is a bigger blood sacrifice and more chance of extra power). But, there is also a chance that its Wp will increase by some random amount.

This way, it becomes more powerful the more he uses it, but it will eventually become strong enough to overpower his mind. Ideally, the GM would roll these dice so that you don't know when, and how much Wp it has gained, and when it is becoming a threat.

I might do something like that myself, actually...
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

Offline wargame_insomniac

  • Inquisitor
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
Re: A question on daemon binding
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2011, 11:52:35 PM »
That sounds suitably Tzeentchian. He is after all Lord of Change. Thanks guys for your help in tweaking my concept. It needed road testing but I feel more confident about it after your feedback.

I have been slowly working on the painting this weekend adding couple more highlights to the main colours. I still have to do some secondary detailing and the final highlights but he is starting to take shape, both as figures and as a concept.

Thanks

James

Offline InquisitorHeidfeld

  • Inquisitor
  • ***
  • Posts: 225
Re: A question on daemon binding
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2011, 01:58:48 PM »
I would suggest that it depends first and foremost on what the Daemon itself wants...

A daemon which appears to be under pressure in combat with an apparently unknown quantity (the character in question) would, in general, far rather fade out of the material, making it appear that the unsuccessful banishment was successful than trap itself in a form which can barely percieve the world and relies on others to execute its plans.

That being said, if the Daemon manipulated events to place this character at the scene with the intent of corrupting him for use in the execution of its schemes then to dive into a blade which appears altogether normal but which has, in fact, been prepared in such a way as to make it possible is a good approach to it.
The character in question has locked the Daemon within the blade (from his perspective) and therefore must take responsibility for disposing of it properly, but he doesn't know enough and can be led off in all sorts of ways...

Of course a fairly mundane blade isn't going to be able to withstand the corrupting influence of The Warp within it for long and will rapidly change and degrade... The Daemon isn't going to enjoy that at all but fortunately it also makes its pawn worried and, of course, the only option is to fashion a more sturdy prison... with innovative features suggested by the whispers in the corner of his mind.