Necron in =][=

[MarcoSkoll]

Yeah, that's more or less what I would have written.

I'd suggest that it's a case of "every 10 points or part of 10 points" the hit roll passes by - so that narrow hits still have a chance of doing something. (Strictly, as you've written it, there'd be no chance with a hit of 9 or less. As a general rule, I'm interpreting degrees of success as in Dark Heresy, where a basic pass is no degrees of success).

Forcefields - hmm. Assuming forcefields are reacting to high energy densities like bullets, lasers or plasmas, a scarab doesn't really seem like it would be moving fast enough to activate a forcefield. (Else, one could imagine any time someone charged you, they'd get knocked unconscious when a solid energy wall coalesced in front of them!)
In the specific case of Scarabs, it might be that the forcefield could mess with their circuitry, but if we can assume Necron tech is at least as reliable as a lasgun, that seems unlikely. Other swarms would likely be unaffected.

Movement. Doesn't need to be too complex. Set some rates, consider slapping Frenzy on top of that (after all, most swarms are looking primarily to feed).

[Mordenkenain]

Machine empathy is also another option, but perhaps with a negative modifier as you're effectively trying to empathise with about 5,000 machines, which is probably a bit more tricky than trying to sweet-talk a bolter into jamming or clearing for you.

That wouldn't really work at all, machine empathy relies on a machine spirit, which the scarabs don't have, and they are remote controlled by crypteks, so you are having a direct mind to mind contest with a 60 million year old being with more knowledge and experience than the entire collected human race.

sorry...

[MarcoSkoll]

That wouldn't really work at all, machine empathy relies on a machine spirit

Very arguable. The Imperium might believe it relies on a Machine Spirit, but whether it actually does is another matter.
It's listed as a telekinesis power, so it certainly implies that it actually involves psycho-tactile manipulation of internal workings, not merely communing with a mechanical essence.

That also assumes you interpret it that the Machine Spirit actually exists and isn't the creation of general ignorance about technology, even amongst those who apparently worship it. To quote Florence Ambrose's corollary to Clarke's Third Law: "Any technology, no matter how primitive, is magic to those who don't understand it".

To me, the machine spirit is mostly dogmatic misunderstanding. Cleansing your autogun and applying sacred unguents doesn't work because it appeases the spirit so it doesn't get angry, it's because it gets rid of dirt that would jam it. Sure, in the case of things like Land Raiders and Titans, those do actually possess a powerful artificial intelligence (not that it's allowed to be called that!), but a laspistol is in no way sentient.

I've always taken the wackier concepts (like the Machine Spirit and the Anzion Theorem) to be somewhat satrical takes on how religion and science don't mix very well, but as time goes by I run into more and more people who take them to be literal interpretations.
I don't like that version - the concept of the Imperium's regressed and distorted knowledge of science is lost if they haven't actually got anything wrong!

Anyway, to get back to the earlier point - I think it would be appropriate if Necron tech was susceptible to psykers. After all, that was what the War in Heaven (and subsequently, things like the Cadian Pylons) was all about - the fact that psykers were one of the few things they feared.

[InquisitorHeidfeld]

Not to mention that - if you believe such things - the entire of Imperial technology is driven by The Dragon (a C'Tan) anyway and therefore Imperial tech is actually closest to the concepts used in Necron Tech.

Personally it's another bit of modern fluff which I write off as a bad idea 

[Lazarus Caladine]

I would have the swarms WS increase exponentially with each additional swarm point (SP), thus better representing the weight of numbers. An SP3 swarm with a WS of 21 is something that an imperial pesant could fight off with a broom. Perhaps have each SP has WS 8, but each additional SP adds half again (8+4=12), e.g. that three point base is now WS 32, a struggle for the broom-wielding pesant. Then of course an SP4 or 5 swarm would be a threat to the sorts of characters who fight in the Emperor's name.

[MarcoSkoll]

I would have the swarms WS increase exponentially with each additional swarm point (SP)

Not sure that's a good idea, otherwise a 10 point swarm would be WS 116, which is a bit excessive.

I'd suggest the inverse - a bigger starting number but less bonus for each extra point. So perhaps the swarm starts with a basic WS (perhaps about 30) and each point adds +5 to hit.
Means that small swarms are actually a bit of a threat without making larger swarms completely.

Do note that I wrote that as "bonus to hit" and not "WS" for a reason. Thinking it through, it seems a bit harsh if a swarm gets WS 80 and becomes impossible to hit in close combat because it's dodging all over the place. More swarm means it's more likely to hit through sheer weight of numbers, but it would seem a bit daft if a denser swarm suddenly granted all its creatures ninja agility and became near impossible to hit.

[Ynek]

Not sure that's a good idea, otherwise a 10 point swarm would be WS 116, which is a bit excessive.

I'm not entirely convinced that WS116 is an unreasonable number for a 10 point swarm. That's a lot of metal bugs flying at you. The odds of avoiding them all, or all of them missing will be tiny. (Which the 5% auto-pass / auto-fail margin fairly accurately represents.)

Although, I did have some further ideas regarding a way to mathematically represent HOW MANY of the scarabs actually manage to hit you, and it's basically the inverse of the way that the players find out how many scarabs they actually manage to hit.

For every 10% or part thereof that a Scarab swarm passes it's weapon skill test by, it actually causes one hit doing D6 damage (comparable to a knife. Not too much of a stretch, considering that they're fist-sized lumps of bladed metal...) to a randomly generated location. This way, when you get pounced by a strong swarm, they could probably rip you to shreds through weight of numbers (or more, number of attacks) whereas in the previously proposed rules, they would make a single attack for each point of speed, and would therefore only make 1-3 attacks, regardless of how many scarabs are in the swarm. (Which is not entirely realistic...)

Therefore, a scarab swarm of WS116 can make between one and 12 attacks, depending on how lucky the player gets with his diceroll.

However, on the subject of scarab swarms and dodging every attack that gets thrown at them - The house rules that we use at my local gaming club combine dodging and parrying into a single defensive action which is supposed to represent the fact that in a real fight, you don't make a conscious decision to dodge or parry. You just do whatever you have to make sure that the sharp, fast moving thing stays out of your innards. In that light, since a swarm cannot parry, if I were GM, I would also rule that they cannot dodge...

However, your idea of larger swarms (below) having a to-hit bonus instead of an outright WS bonus might offset this - I.E. They would have a reduced chance of success in dodging because their actual weapon skill, underneath all of their bonuses and modifiers, is marginal at best.

I'd suggest the inverse - a bigger starting number but less bonus for each extra point. So perhaps the swarm starts with a basic WS (perhaps about 30) and each point adds +5 to hit.

[MarcoSkoll]

in a real fight, you don't make a conscious decision to dodge or parry.

It's a game mechanic in the same way the combatants don't take two or three attempts to smack their opponent around the head before they let the other guy have a go. It's not necessarily literally dodging or parrying, but an option to give the player to represent their character's approach to combat: The character who deliberately pushes forwards, taking the risk in case his opponent leaves an opening - or the character who keeps his distance, playing it safe and only taking the strikes where he can maintain his defences.

[Lazarus Caladine]

While I concur with the thoughts behind doging and parrying like that, unfortunately I would also put it in the category of 'quantified by necessity, not accuracy'.

Back on topic, I reckon a ten point swarm would really mess someone up. Think about someone having knives thrown at them. If there's one or two, someone might be able to dodge them, but it gets exponentially harder the more knives that get thrown at him. Multiply this with each knife being a (simple) AI construct working with it's fellow knives, you have something very potent indeed.

I would also agree with the statement that it would be impossible to apply the dodge or parry mechanics to the equation, for reasons previously discussed. I might add that the swarm also cannot parry or dodge, seeing as neither rule can work in a logical way (scarabs attempting to parry only have themselves to deflect the blow, so any "parried" hit would still be hitting several bugs. A swarm attempting to dodge would have it's offensive capability severely compromised while it attempted to reform and retaliate).


I very much like the degrees of success method working both ways, seems to fit well. However, for clarification, would multiple successful hits on one area equate to multiple dice in a single attack, or multiple attacks of a single dice each? I.E. Jim the Guardsman gets hit in the chest three times; does he A: take one 3D6 attack, or B: take 3 1D6 attacks?
Mash.

[Lucidum]

With the fully rebooted background material courtesy of the 5th ed Necron codex, Necrons are now much more interesting, much more characterful. I see them as being a very viable alien race for Inquisitor now, if you're willing to work for it. Like most of the alien races of the 41st millenium, Necrons still require a bit of work to really fit in with the =][= background, though a lot less than they previously did. Necrons all have various motivations now, from finding suitable new "host bodies" to transfer their minds to via biotransferrence; to searching for errant C'tan Shards which have escaped their attentions. With new rivalries such as the Eldar and Tyranids opposing the resurgent Necron empire, they can easily be used as opponents against players who play non-standard warbands even.

[MarcoSkoll]

... Oh dear. I forget which commandment of Inquisitor that is, but you've most certainly breached it: "Thou shalt not use background written by Mat Ward".

His writing is prone to going to lengths that are not exactly Inquisitor friendly.

[Lucidum]

... Oh dear. I forget which commandment of Inquisitor that is, but you've most certainly breached it: "Thou shalt not use background written by Mat Ward".

His writing is prone to going to lengths that are not exactly Inquisitor friendly.

XD sooooooo true. His background crap..er..."fluff" is so bad, so totally a departure from Rogue Trader and Second Edition, so utterly godawful that it's sickening. Still though, the Necron fluff has a small amount of merit as I mentioned....even if it is terribly written and completely out of ALL ESTABLISHED BACKGROUND >.<

[DapperAnarchist]

I like the new Necron background - it gets rid of a lot of what was complained about (too much C'Tan, too much power, no reason they could lose, no personality, and no humour) and introduced some very interesting stuff - the Celestial Orrery would make a great objective (how can they evade the guards? just what will the attitude of the Necron masters be?), Trayzn is a wonderfully comical yet sinister character, and the Flayer Worlds would be a good place to make characters suffer (why would they go there? Pursuing a Haemovore cultist, perhaps?). Pushing the mad scientist/Bond villain/Dr. Doom image is a good way to turn the Necron Lords into characters - something unessential for WH40K, but completely central to Inquisitor. No longer are the Lords simply silent agents of a incomprehensible god (unless, that is, you want them to be - there's a lot of variety in the codex, a lot of free conceptual space), but thinking, plotting, malicious and ancient rulers for whom opposition is something to be laughed at, then crushed.

Ward's recent work isn't as bad as his C:SM, as he's no longer outright offending other players with statements about how their particular version of this army (say, the Imperial Fists, or the Raven Guard) will never be as wonderful and impressive as Ward's own preferred one (the Ultramarines). He is branching off radically, and the style of writing leaves much to be desired (I think he's going for Lovecraftian prose poetry, but he's no Howard Philiips Lovecraft), but I think he may have gotten a telling off, as he's been more sensible.

[MarcoSkoll]

Ward's recent work isn't as bad as his C:SM

His last full codex prior to Necrons was Grey Knights (yes, I know he was involved in the SoB WD codex), and that included the Inquisition's pet Jokaero and Kaldor Draigo.

I'm not seeing where the "been more sensible" is coming into this.

[Lucidum]

Ward's recent work isn't as bad as his C:SM

His last full codex prior to Necrons was Grey Knights (yes, I know he was involved in the SoB WD codex), and that included the Inquisition's pet Jokaero and Kaldor Draigo.

I'm not seeing where the "been more sensible" is coming into this.

Yeah, on this note I agree with Marco for once. Ward just doesn't know the fiction well enough to write it, so he basically makes up really, really, really bad fiction. I mean...Necrons and Blood Angels teaming up to fight off Tyranids? Seriously?! And Kaltor Draigo basically becoming the Chuck Norris of the Warp, carving his name into the hearts of Daemons and then showing up to fight them whenever he feels like it....and no Inquisitor has thought to call him a heretic and just shoot him in the head or something?

And while I do love that they brought the Jokaero, one of the oldest Rogue Trader-era xenos races back into the game....uh....it could have been done a lot better...or not at all. I mean...it makes absolutely no sense for them to be with the Grey Knight's 'dex, they're just shoehorned in there.