Author Topic: The Twin Arches (Autumn Conclave 2012) - December 1st, WHW  (Read 25329 times)

Offline MarcoSkoll

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The Twin Arches (Autumn Conclave 2012) - December 1st, WHW
« on: April 06, 2012, 12:48:32 AM »
October 4th Edit: EVENT PACK

This was formerly the "A dual-scale event?" event thread. The first post has been edited accordingly.

Evening gents. With the INQvitational having been a success, and demonstrated an event ready 28mm crowd, it's time to look back at this to fill out the Inquisitor gaming event schedule.

I've called up the WHW events team, and of the Saturdays in the Nov/Dec time period I was looking for, they offered December 1st. At this point, I now need a show of hands in order that I can work out how many tables will be needed and the feasibility. Obviously, the event won't work very well if I don't get enough players of one scale or the other.

EDIT: Event now confirmed for December 1st 2012.

~~~~~

So, to summarise and recap:

- December 1st, Warhammer World. Normal hours (1000-1800)

- The day will be BOTH 28mm and 54mm. Players may use either or both as they wish.

- Standard schedule for the day - three "intrigue" games, followed by a finale. Expect another multi-table finale.

- GMing will be handled as per previous "Conclaves", and will be rotated (to willing volunteers, as far as is possible) to give all attendees the chance to play. As normal, pre-written scenarios will be on hand, but people are welcome to write and bring their own. (Consider it practice for the 2013 IGT, if you'd like.)

- I may need an assistant for the day though.

- Ideally, people will GM for their "non standard" scale to allow greater intermixing of the two groups. This is not a strict requirement, but it is preferred that people ask around and borrow NPCs instead than sticking only to their own scale.
We'll also be running the same style of attendee donated NPC pool as we had at the 2011 Autumn Conclave, so people are encouraged to lend any potentially useful generic thugs, the odd VIP or wizened adept to that.

- Scoring may get changed up. Contact cards may remain part of it, but I'm looking to personalise things by giving players specific tasks. This might relate to their cards, or it might be personal agendas they have to achieve in the day's games... or maybe even outside them.

- At present, the plan is that the plot will take place in both Dalthus and Carthax, with a story that affects both.

~~~~~

So, that show of hands, please. If you'd also tell me which scales you're planning on attending with, that would help.

List of possibles:

28mm:
Chilli Fueled Heretic
LeadLegion
Little Brother
(Possible +1s)

54mm:
Bloodpact
Van Helser (If his schedule works out)

Both:
Greenstuff_Gav
Kaled
Keravin
Koval
Necris
RobSkib
Tychonaut

Original Post follows:

First things first, I imagine what is discussed below is rather dependent on the success of Molotov's INQvitational, but as the idea has been kicked up recently, I'm throwing it out here earlier rather than later.

While the idea has been being bounced around for a while, Kaled and I got more of a chance to talk about a dual-scale Inquisitor event in Bugman's (after the IGT). We both (or at least, I) think the Inquisitor community would benefit from being more unified than it currently is. The proposition, therefore, is for an event that will have both scales of gaming. (And I suspect I've probably nominated myself as one of the organisers by posting this...)

What follows is where the ideas that have already been put onto the table have got to:

~~~~~

Players:
Players would be able to turn up with warbands in either or both of the scales. And it is important to stress that bringing both scales (not at all compulsory) wouldn't have to be big and little versions of the same warband - merely two warbands that could reasonably be allied. An Inquisitor and a team of their agents, two Inquisitors of similar ideologies... you get the idea.

I know Keravin had concerns about allowing players to mix between the scales being interpreted as (paraphrasing heavily) "you should have some 54mm models", but I promise you that there are no such ulterior motives.
The point(s) in allowing players to use both is/are simple - to allow players to mix, and not force players to pick only one of the scales.
No mixing, and telling people they have to pick their favourite scale would defeat a lot of the point of the event.

~~~~~

GMs:
The more radical idea Kaled threw out there for mixing the groups was having attendees GMing games that weren't in their normal scale. Even if they didn't have any models of the other scale themselves, this would mean that they'd be get to meet more of the other players.

Asking players to GM for a scale they don't have models for does, at first shout, seem like a problem, but I had good success at the 2011 Autumn Conclave when I asked players to bring their spare Chaos themed models for a big traitorous horde I needed. (In spite of needing a horde, I was offered more models than I could use!)
With attendee input, having a supply of NPCs of either scale on hand (provided the scenarios aren't written to need anything too specific) shouldn't be difficult.

~~~~~

Format:
The event finale could follow a similar pattern to what I used at the Autumn Conclave (multiple tables which could affect each other), as there's no need for these multiple tables to be at the same scale. We would however have to have two equally important "main tables", one for each scale. (One idea I have is for two matching structures to have been found on different planets, and each scale representing play on each of those planets - the finale's two central tables would therefore be models battling it out for control of the appropriately scaled structure.)

This finale does however have the potential to be massive, and would need at least three GMs - one for each of the main tables, plus a grand overseer to handle interactions between tables. The side tables, at least with the help of the grand overseer, should probably be able to be handled by a player/players taking on the job of running it.

~~~~~

This is still only early thoughts, likely to be subject to a lot of revision and also unlikely to be before some time in 2013, but you're all invited to discuss it at this stage.

Just think about the raw potential that there could be in having an event that wasn't "INQ28" or "INQ54"... just "Inquisitor", in a full showcase of its glory, big or small.

(This topic is being discussed simultaneously here on The Ammobunker)
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 03:40:35 AM by MarcoSkoll »
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Offline Kaled

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Re: A dual-scale event?
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2012, 07:49:27 AM »
We both (or at least, I) think the Inquisitor community would benefit from being more unified than it currently is.
I certainly agree. The Inquisitor community is pretty small, but it would be far better if it were one unified community rather than two even smaller ones, and surely it can only benefit from mixing the ideas and experience of both sides.

Quote
Players would be able to turn up with warbands in either or both of the scales.
I'll repeat the offer I made in the other thread. If any of the 28mm crowd fancy trying 54mm, then if they build a warband leader I'll be happy to lend them a couple of other models to make up a warband. I don't have enough 28mm models to offer them to 54mm players who want to try the smaller scale, but I'm sure other people here do. In fact, where possible I'd encourage (but certainly not mandate) participants to play at least one of their games at the other scale - it gives people a chance to model something a bit different from what they're used to and would help people see the other side of the 28/54mm debate.

(Please don't mistake this for me saying we should all be playing at 54mm.  I'd equally like to see those 54mm players who dismiss Inq28 give it a try too. The event is all about getting people to come together and play Inquisitor and not just stay entrenched in their Inq54 or Inq28 camps.)

Quote
The more radical idea Kaled threw out there for mixing the groups was having attendees GMing games that weren't in their normal scale. Even if they didn't have any models of the other scale themselves, this would mean that they'd be get to meet more of the other players.
I don't see that the idea is all that radical. There's no real difference in GMing at either scale, and many scenarios don't need NPCs or special terrain etc, so those scenarios could be run at either scale. Where a scenario does need particular NPCs then it should be easy enough to borrow a model to represent them. As long as I know in advance, I'm happy to bring 54mm models to be used as NPCs. I realise that some of the newer 28mm crowd may be daunted by the idea of GMing for a table of more experienced 54mm players, but I remember when I was new to the community and GMing for experienced players was a little scary but turned out to be a great way to learn as it meant I could concentrate on running the game and could leave the players to handle the rules themselves. I think it's important that the event is set up so that it 'forces' the two halves of the community to mix - people naturally tend to stick with what they know and is comfortable, but if they don't mix then it's really just two events happening on the same day - and that just defeats the point.

The campaign structure suggested should work well. In the past I've considered a few other options for a dual scale event, such as having players forming cells containing both Inq28 and Inq54 players, but keep coming back to this format - especially for the first dual scale event as it means players are mostly with people from their own half of the community, but also gives opportunities for people to mix.

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Offline Keravin

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Re: A dual-scale event?
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2012, 02:13:21 PM »
I can certainly help with lending people INQ28 warbands as I have 4 - three Inquisitors and one Rogue Trader.   My own reticence about using 54mm is I'd rather use my own and I'm working on assembling the bits to build my own, but funds get in the way of the plans.    As for gming I'd like a few more games under my belt, but given I'm looking at setting up my own games I'll be doing this sooner rather than later anyway.

Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: A dual-scale event?
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2012, 07:11:41 PM »
I don't see that the idea is all that radical. There's no real difference in GMing at either scale, and many scenarios don't need NPCs or special terrain etc, so those scenarios could be run at either scale. Where a scenario does need particular NPCs then it should be easy enough to borrow a model to represent them.
Okay, not hugely radical per se, but I know that if GMs want to write and run scenarios of their own design, they might not be entirely comfortable relying on the will of Tzeentch as to whether they'll have the NPCs needed.

~~~~~

I should add, I feel, that I am not suggesting that we migrate to making all events open to both scales, but that at least occasionally, the extra effort should be made.
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Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
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Offline Kaled

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Re: A dual-scale event?
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2012, 07:22:59 PM »
Okay, not hugely radical per se, but I know that if GMs want to write and run scenarios of their own design, they might not be entirely comfortable relying on the will of Tzeentch as to whether they'll have the NPCs needed.
True, but I think that for this one occasion it's not unreasonable for people to try to come up with a scenario that either doesn't need NPCs, or which uses ones that they know will be available.
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: A dual-scale event?
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2012, 12:03:15 AM »
Of course, trying to arrange borrowing any NPCs they needed would get people asking around and talking to each other - perhaps introducing them to other people's models they hadn't really paid attention to before. I like it.

One thing to add - I guess defining which scale was/wasn't the person's "native scale" would be left to trusting people to follow the spirit of the thing, in the same way as we do with character design.
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: A dual-scale event?
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2012, 05:28:13 PM »
Given the fuss that the discussion over the next GT has kicked up, and the suggestion of trying to get a less competitive dual-scale event in first, I think it's probably time to try and kick this thread.

That would mean that this event would need to be moved up the calendar to have it sometime in late 2012. I think that's doable, although I was perhaps hoping for a slightly more relaxed schedule than that for working on the event mechanics and any necessary NPCs/terrain.

Now, just chucking an idea out there...

... we could also run the IGT scoring alongside this event as an experiment. It wouldn't be taken into account in the day's result, but it would give us some reference material. (It'd be a bit odd in that the planned event structure would have the 54mm attendees scoring the 28mm ones and vice versa, but I think that might actually be useful, as we could use the scores and scoring of the same 54mm attendees from previous GTs as a comparative baseline.)

Of course, I can perfectly understand if people didn't want to do that.
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Offline Kaled

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Re: A dual-scale event?
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2012, 05:54:36 PM »
Call me cynical, but after the recent fuss (and years of emnity), a scoring system that has no relevance to the actual event could just be seen as the Inq54 players checking that the Inq28 ones are 'doing it right' and cause resentment.

But if you do plan to run this event this year and need a hand putting it together then give me a shout and I'll be happy to help.
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Offline Koval

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Re: A dual-scale event?
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2012, 06:03:23 PM »
For what it's worth, if it's going to be a dummy run to iron out the gremlins, then it's worth making sure people know that so you guys can try to keep an eye on the shenanigans as well. In any case, it's better to get these sorts of events going sooner rather than later in order to foster some sort of integration between two apparently separate communities.

Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: A dual-scale event?
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2012, 07:01:32 PM »
Call me cynical, but a scoring system that has no relevance to the actual event could just cause resentment.
That is one of the things I had imagined people might say. It is unfortunately the case that the rather reasonable question of "Are both groups equal?" turns into the less reasonable sounding "Are the 28mm players doing it the same?" because it's introducing 28mm to a formerly solely 54mm event.

But we'll have to deal with that anyway with separate GTs ("Why are they separate?" "Well, because not everyone thinks it's fair" *Cue offence*). So, as it could mean the difference between having two separate GTs and one combined GT, I'm going to leave the idea on the table for the moment. If enough people disagree, then we won't do it. But I'd rather at least give it a chance.

Quote
But if you do plan to run this event this year and need a hand putting it together then give me a shout and I'll be happy to help.
I'm all for help - tempting though it would be to lord it over the whole event on my own, that might be a bit silly - but seeing as you've already run the IGT this year, please don't feel that you're in any way compelled to do so.

@Koval: Very much the intention.
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Offline Koval

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Re: A dual-scale event?
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2012, 07:10:16 PM »
Quote
But if you do plan to run this event this year and need a hand putting it together then give me a shout and I'll be happy to help.
I'm all for help - tempting though it would be to lord it over the whole event on my own, that might be a bit silly - but seeing as you've already run the IGT this year, please don't feel that you're in any way compelled to do so.
I'd be happy to chip in as well.

Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: A dual-scale event?
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2012, 10:32:14 PM »
What I'm really looking for is someone who can pen some scenarios, help develop the scoring mechanics and GM some of the games. While I don't doubt that your involvement in the plot would improve it, I expect you're a little rusty on the rules?

You're welcome if you do want to get involved in organising, but (assuming you're looking to attend) I think you'd probably get more out of it as one of the players - that does still offer the opportunity to write and GM a scenario if you want, but you'd get more chance to push the models you're making around the table as well.
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Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

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Offline Koval

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Re: A dual-scale event?
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2012, 10:56:03 PM »
Guilty as charged, but I'd like to think my heart's in the right place.

In between my lungs.

Offline RobSkib

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Re: A dual-scale event?
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2012, 01:34:46 AM »
I'll help if you give me a bit of time to finish up with some RL timesinks. If we can come up with a decent dual-scale problem solver, I can throw open the 28mm doors to the Kaede Mack event as well.
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: A dual-scale event?
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2012, 02:42:31 AM »
I've posted something on the Ammobunker thread - hopefully it won't horribly blow up.

@Rob: I think the biggest problem to solve with dual-scale is that you can't line the "winners" up on the same table for the grand finale, and my plot has had to be built around that to be equally fair for both scales. Whether that works for you... I don't know. But more unity is a good thing!
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

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