Leander, Mars Pattern Warhound Titan

[MarcoSkoll]

Hooray!!!

Have some premium grade piffle I've been writing. This is almost certainly (I hope) the most grossly overpowered character that will ever be posted in this section of the boards, but I have been for a long time approaching Leander as a character with a background (after all, Warhound Titans are actually sentient and individual).

This should all make it onto the Carthax Wiki at some point, but it's all sort of in progress at the moment, with me exploring the basics of the Legio Ruber, the work of the Solemne Forge Worlds and setting down the groundwork to cover why (when she actually starts to make it to the table) it'll so often be the same named Warhound showing up in game.

~~~~~

Legio Ruber
The Legio Ruber (or "Crimson Wolves") is the only Titan legion based upon the Solemne forgeworlds - and by extension the sole Titan legion based in the Cuir subsector. Their motto is Per vires vincimus, which translates into Low Gothic as approximately With strength, we conquer.

The legion founding was in the early years of the 33rd millennium, approximately two centuries after the establishment of the Solemne Worlds as part of the demesnes of the Adeptus Mechanicus, and the first of the legion's war-engines would take part in the closing stages of the Forging of the Imperium, battle honours that the surviving Titans still proudly carry today.

Over the millennia, the Legio has been deployed to many major conflicts across the Segmentum Pacificus, and on rare occasions beyond.
In more recent times, many of their deployments have shifted closer to home, such as in the defence of the fortress world of Ilithyia, or as part of the Nexus Belt crusade that followed the Carthage Massacre.

As of 015.M42, the legion consists of 41 operational engines:
- 3 Emperor titans (2 Imperator class, 1 Warmonger class)
- 12 Warlord battle titans (6 Death Bringer class, 3 Eclipse class, 2 Nemesis class, 1 Nightgaunt class)
- 9 Reaver battle titans (4 Hun class, 3 Goth class, 2 Vandal class)
- 17 Warhound scout titans (11 Wolf class, 4 Mastiff class, 4 Jackal class)

Battle-groups within the legion are constantly in flux, being adjusted for each individual conflict, but the command structures tend to be built around the same Principes Majoris (or the current Princeps Senioris, Djaris Pasanel) despite the specific titans under their authority being altered on a frequent basis. Some Principes from other legions have criticised this organisation for not allowing battle-groups to become fully unified squads with intricate strategies, but it has thus far allowed the Legio Ruber to deploy to a greater number battle fronts than would be possible with a rigid command structure.



Solemne pattern materiel
Much of the materiel produced on Solemne is developments of Mars pattern technology, with the first alterations to the designs arising from the distrust of the Moriae Schism.

While often externally similar, the internal assemblies have often been subject to major or minor redesign, leading to very low parts commonality. The variants have since been sanctioned by the greater Adeptus Mechanicus, but the designs' shady history means few other forge worlds, even within the Carthax sector, also produce these patterns.

The designation of any individual design as either a entire new pattern or simply a variant is not entirely consistent, and seems to ride on the arrogance of the techpriests that originally took it upon themselves to modify the template.



Solemne Type 3 Plasma Blastgun

Length: 8.40m
Weight: 15.1 tonnes
Ammunition: Deuterium/Helium-3 amalgam
Barrels: Twin parallel magnetic accelerator assemblies
Accelerator length: 5.20 m
Muzzle velocity: 18,750 m/s
Rate of Fire: 30 rpm (Maximum)
Ammunition capacity: Supplied from main reactor

The Solemne Type 3 is a hypervelocity plasma projector with variable yield.

At minimum output, the destructive effect is approximately comparable to a standard demolition charge or 120mm HE battle cannon shell, although with a slightly more defined casualty radius (due to a lack of inherent fragmentation shrapnel). The conventional maximum yield, combining the output of both accelerators, is significantly higher, capable of reducing the front armour of almost any Imperial tank to slag or incinerating entire squads of armoured troops.

However, past this point, the Type 3 is capable of generating a plasma pulse dense enough to undergo a partial fusion transition, producing blast yields of between 10 and 100 tonnes Fyceline equivalent, sufficient to level multiple city blocks with a single shot. While the quantity of plasma for these shots is significantly less than in normal operation and has yields very low by nuclear standards, further up-scaling has proven impossible. The accelerator assemblies cannot produce a larger magnetic locus at the required flux density, with all attempts to contain larger quantities of plasma near the fusion threshold resulting in an explosive, although non-nuclear, failure of the Type 3. Due to excessive heat production, massive power demands from the main reactor, very high maintenance requirements and massive collateral damage, the Type 3's fusion pulses are used only in rare cases.

Rate of fire is dictated by firing mode. The Type 3 can fire each accelerator separately at up to 15 rpm for short periods, but maximum conventional yield cannot be sustained at more than five shots per minute due to heat build up. For nuclear level discharges, doctrine mandates that the system be allowed to cool for several minutes both before and after firing.



Solemne Mk VIII Vulcan Megabolter

Length: 6.95m
Weight: 12.2 tonnes
Cartridge: 30 x 175 mm multi-fused rocket-boosted HEAP round
Barrels: Twin rotary assemblies of 5 barrels each
Barrel length: 3.55 m
Muzzle velocity: 1,280 m/s at muzzle; peak projectile velocity of 1,625 m/s is attained at approximately 7 metres from the muzzle
Rate of Fire: up to 4,020 rpm
Ammunition capacity: 2 x 2,521 rounds.

The Solemne Mk VIII's most notable variation from the Mars Pattern on which it is based is the rechambering and lengthening of the rotary barrel assemblies. This leads to the Solemne pattern instead feeding a much larger cartridge from the rear of its helical magazines.

The change to the cartridge and barrel allows the Solemne pattern a considerably higher muzzle velocity and far greater accuracy. Direct-hit armour piercing capacity at 500 metres exceeds 150mm of conventional steel armour and, in combination with micro-cogitator warhead fuses and the 30x175mm round's 6 to 8 metre airburst lethality radius, the effective range against point targets is significantly in excess of two kilometres.

The main cost of this improvement is a reduction of almost two thirds in the Vulcan's ammunition capacity. At maximum rate of fire, the Solemne pattern has ammunition for around 75 seconds of continuous fire. In order to reduce frequency of rearming and permit longer engagements, Legio doctrine is to restrict the weapon's rate and duration of fire under most circumstances. The Mk VIII, as opposed to the earlier Mks VI and VII, incorporates precision gearing which allows the Vulcan to adjust its rate of fire from between 300 to 4,020 rpm, and fire exact bursts of any number of rounds (potentially even single rounds versus point targets) in order to conserve the limited ammunition reserves available. Additional care is advised for defensive assignments, where resupply may be infrequent or entirely unavailable.

The Solemne pattern has also had to abandon the optional double-ended feed system of the Mars pattern, and therefore cannot return spent casings to the magazine. While of little direct concern to the Titan, ejecting 30x175mm casings can present a possible hazard to allied infantry in close support.



Leander

Technical Specifications
Vehicle Name: Leander
Numeric Identifier: MMMMMDCXC
Class: Mars Pattern XXI Warhound Scout Titan, Solemne variant III
Vehicle Designation: 0550-4332-982-WH
Forge World of Origin: Solemne IV
Date of construction: 165936.M41
Crew:
- Princeps Helane Rogen
- Moderatus Sheive Henri
- Moderatus Markel Aziz
- Techpriest Jarlath Gerhard
- 2x targeting servitors
- 6x servo-skulls

Powerplant: 2x Type XIV plasma reactor

Weight: 409 tonnes
Length: 12.1m
Width: 11m
Height (at rest): 14m
Ground Clearance: 6.5m
Max Speed - on road: 64 KPH
Max Speed - off road: 48 KPH
Transport Capacity: N/A
Access Points: 3 (underside lift, two top access hatches)

Armaments:
- Main: Solemne type 3 plasma blastgun
- Secondary: Solemne Mk VIII vulcan megabolter
- Traverse: 100 degrees horizontal, -40 to +30 degrees elevation

Armour:
- Head: 195-275mm
- Forward hull: 320-375 mm
- Reactors: 75-250mm
- Weapons: 105-145 mm
- Legs: 135-190 mm, additional 150mm spaced armour to protect external motive components.

Void Shields: 2x Type 42 Void projectors.



The Wolf class Warhound scout titan Leander is the 121st titan to be built for Legio Ruber. Created in 936.M41, it is the second youngest of its legion, older only than its sister titan Galatea, and amongst the newest titans in the Imperium. As a scout unit with no prestige or battle experience, was considered to be an almost demeaning assignment by many of the Principes of Solemne's millennia old battle titans, and few envied its equally new Princeps, Helane Rogen, her command.

Early battles confirmed these prejudices, with the titan's machine spirit constantly rebelling and making its performance mediocre at best. This unfavourable reputation quickly spread between the other Princeps of the legion, many vocally considering it an unreliable ally in battle.

It was not until after a number of seemingly hastily made combat repairs that some unknown affront to the machine spirit was remedied and transformed the Titan into an entirely different beast.
No longer rebelling against its crew, the Titan's sentience instead turned its full fury upon the enemy, proving utterly tenacious and so fast as to be almost prescient.

What was a Titan that was once considered amongst the least of the Legion's history would in 964.M41 single-handedly destroy the traitor Reaver Titan Hellespont, after the opening barrage from the traitor engine all but destroyed the Warhound's sister titan, Galatea.

Despite this feat, Collegia Solemne doctrine demands that Wolf class Warhounds are deployed in pairs, and the now single Warhound was retired from major combat operations.
Its task of defending Mechanicus convoys and outposts away from the main front was broken up only by short assignments to substitute for injured Wolf classes. While very capable in a defensive role, it was noted that Princeps Rogen was prone to "proactive target acquisition", often diverting to engage enemy forces which were unlikely to pose any threat to her main objective.

This lasted eight years, until 972.M41 and Leander's deployment on Tarrag IV as part of a campaign against an Ork Waagh that was threatening the sub-sector Inquisitorial fortress.

Inquisitor Vrystok was amongst rear-guard forces on the outskirts of the city of Rissen when he and they came under assault by a large flanking Ork force supported by two Stompas and a sizable Dread mob. Within minutes, the Orks' warbuggies and trukks had pushed through the Imperial force's hasty defences and into the city streets, leaving the Crassus the Inquisitor was using as a mobile command base under direct attack.

But whatever responses the Inquisitor had hoped for to his distress call, the brutally loud sound of Leander's war-horn was beyond them.
Having broken off from what Princeps Rogen would later describe as "a tedious escort mission", the Warhound strode clear over the Inquisitor's assault vehicle, megabolter fire blasting apart the Orks bearing down on the transport.

Taking immediate advantage of the arrival of the god machine, Vrystok quickly managed to rally most of the surviving Imperial forces, building their awe into the basis of a counter-attack. But with just a scarce few of the force's original armoured vehicles operable, the situation still seemed dire in the face of the Orks' massive armoured assault.

Co-ordinating with the Inquisitor, Helane put together a strategy. With the aid of the surviving forces, Leander's agility and the Orks' hunger for battle, she herded one of the Stompas into the bulk of the Dread mob on the outskirts of the city, then engaged the enemy super-heavy with the full firepower of her plasma blastgun. Using scarcely sanctioned modifications Solemne tech-smiths had made to the design millennia ago, the plasma pulse compressed to fusion, one shot shattering the Stompa and sympathetically detonating its looted reactor, the massive explosion taking out the Ork dreadnoughts as collateral.

With her primary weapon overheated, Helane retreated into the city, where the Warhound's far greater manoeuvrability gave her the opportunity to outflank the pursuit of the second Ork Stompa. Unleashing a Vulcan burst through the war-machine's weaker rear armour, the explosive rounds detonated inside the hull and shredded the Ork crew almost instantly. As the now pilotless Stompa toppled, the remaining Ork forces broke and fled, relatively easy targets for the regrouped Imperial force and fury of the Warhound.

While hugely grateful for the Warhound's intervention, Vrystok was furious when he discovered that the Titan that had single-handedly saved almost two thirds of the Imperial force was being deliberately kept from the front lines of the war.

Although demanding the alteration of the Legio Ruber's millennia old doctrine was an affront the Mechanicus would not have taken lightly, Vrystok formulated his own strategy to see Leander deployed to full effect.  Using his authority, he began specifically and repeatedly demanding Princeps Rogen's support on the major fronts of the war - a role in which Leander continued to excel.

As word of her success spread, many other Inquisitors involved in the war also began to demand the support of the now famous Warhound, leading to Helane taking part in many of the most critical and celebrated victories of the conflict. By the time Imperium had declared victory over the Xenos menace, Leander's name had well and truly been made amongst the Inquisition.

Ever since, the Inquisition of Carthax and beyond have continued to request the support of Helane and Leander on the basis of sheer reputation; the Princeps has taken to this role with abandon, relishing the challenges the Ordos offer her, and has even turned down promotion to command of a full Battle Titan twice. It would seem even the Legio as a whole has grown to consider their ties to the Inquisition an honour, as Leander is so often coincidentally available, complete with specialised support crew, amongst the reserves of Inquisition-led conflicts.

~~~~~

.... right, that's the early draft of the background. More expansion of the Legio's own fluff is likely, but it's a start.

Rules-wise, Leander herself will be mostly a case of "what the GM says goes" - as I have previously put it, the only possible damage characteristic for a direct hit from a Titan class weapon in this game is rolling dice to find out how large an area the atomised vapour that used to be an Inquisitor has been spread over, and most of the weapons carried by a typical character would barely scratch the paint.
Even using powers like Machine Empathy or Telepathy, you'd be trying to commune with the titan's sentience, a mind powerful enough to actually do that or both.

I'll probably come up with some rough rules of thumb for how to deal with glancing blows from Titan weapons (such as being caught on the edge of the blast area of a blastgun or megabolter round) so that there is a possible mid-ground by which Leander can give a hint to any character who doesn't quite get the idea that the Warhound Titan is a part of the scenario you're supposed to think around, not directly engage.

Somewhere along the lines though, do expect statlines for the crew to appear here, as I'm expecting that a lot of scenarios will revolve around them rather than Leander directly.

[MarcoSkoll]

Some draft sound effects for Leander. Hopefully to be used alongside games if I can find a suitably decent set of portable speakers.

Warhorn
Plasma Blastgun
Vulcan Bolter

For the most part, they're me messing around with sound effects I liked from different films. I'm most happy with the Warhorn at the moment - I'd originally considered tweaking the Kaiju horn from Pacific Rim, but eventually it's the T-Rex from Jurassic Park slowed down by one and a half octaves.

~~~~~

Anyway, I know this is a very unconventional "character" to ask you to critique, but I really would welcome comments.

Obviously, it falls into the slightly cliché territory of the "Saves an Inquisitor" background, but it's a little bit hard to what else fits.
I'm sort of trying to juggle explanations for it being a lone Wolf class Warhound (in theory, it could be a Jackal or Mastiff, but I just have it in my head that Leander is a Wolf Class) and it getting involved with the Inquisition... and my attempts have just lead into that so far.

So I'm rather running with the hope that if any character has ever had an excuse for rescuing an Inquisitor from odds he couldn't beat on his own, a four hundred tonne god of war is probably quite a long way up the list.

[Drubbels]

Bearing in mind that this is my first time critiquing a character...

I'd say it's pretty good. Yes, 'saving the Inquisitor' might be a bit cliché, but who minds a cliché every so often? I suppose you could come up with something else, like dark conspiracies and ancient secrets surrounding its construction/commissioning, if you wanted to - but this is a Titan. It's perfectly reasonable for its background to mainly emphasize how awesome it is. You don't have to force anything else on it just for the sake of doing something interesting.

For rules, I'd say give it some more-or-less set rules for movement and turning (move in the recovery phase, and no rolling for actions - just turning up to a set angle or moving up to a set distance). All weapons would be blast weapons, with two radii - if you're inside the inner circle you're dead, if you're outside the inner circle but still within the outer one you suffer damage according to an actual weapon profile.

[greenstuff_gav]

i'm not good with the reading but sounds good to me!

Regarding the "saving the inquisitor" cliché; you can get away with any cliché or over-powered-ness with the "Rule of cool"; putting a titan on the table gets you forgiven a plethora of sins!

Liwet looks forward to meeting him!
i liked a concept from Pratchetts' Discworld regarding the minds of great old trees; how hard they were for people to read due to the ponderous nature; i see a titan out of combat being similar, barely aware of those scurrying around it!

[MarcoSkoll]

I suppose you could come up with something else, like dark conspiracies and ancient secrets surrounding its construction/commissioning, if you wanted to - but this is a Titan. It's perfectly reasonable for its background to mainly emphasize how awesome it is. You don't have to force anything else on it just for the sake of doing something interesting.

No, "dark conspiracies and ancient secrets" doesn't sound too much like a direction I want to go in.

Well, if you guys don't think I've gone too drastically over the top, I'm probably over-thinking it. A Titan should get the chance to stretch its legs in its background, the question is really how much.

Having gone back and eyeballed it in my old books, I think the Ork force I described would be around 3000-4000 points in WH40K, considerably more than the 750pts of a typical Warhound... but I guess that's not really an arbiter. In the end, it doesn't sound too preposterous to pull off with some support, a terrain advantage and decent tactics.

For rules, I'd say give it some more-or-less set rules for movement and turning (move in the recovery phase, and no rolling for actions - just turning up to a set angle or moving up to a set distance). All weapons would be blast weapons, with two radii - if you're inside the inner circle you're dead, if you're outside the inner circle but still within the outer one you suffer damage according to an actual weapon profile.

I'm expecting the performance on the table will be very flexible, and I'm not going to start getting too deep into how powerful it needs to be until it's actually there on a table. Mostly, I'm expecting it's so powerful that I can do what I like.

Are you an unimportant NPC? Well, you've just been engaged by twin 30mm gatling guns firing rocket propelled grenades, hence you have exploded messily. Are you an important PC? Well, you'll get a chance. Whatever happens won't be nice, but you'll probably survive it in some fasion.

That said, I am considering conjuring up something like the newer Apocalypse Barrage template, such as on the right...



... because that'd be a handy visualisation for a rotary cannon firing dozens of airbursting rounds a second.

you can get away with any cliché or over-powered-ness with the "Rule of cool"; putting a titan on the table gets you forgiven a plethora of sins!

Chief among which sins is putting a Titan in an Inquisitor game the first place.

That's fair enough, but I don't want to get too deep into that kind of logic - I'm already justifying things like the unconventional naming ("Leander" isn't the typical double barrelled pseudo Latin name most titans get) with that kind of prerogative.

i liked a concept from Pratchetts' Discworld regarding the minds of great old trees; how hard they were for people to read due to the ponderous nature; i see a titan out of combat being similar, barely aware of those scurrying around it!

Yeah, I can see that. I've still got a bit of thinking to do about Leander's temperament, but I'll definitely keep that in mind.

[Adlan]

I am posing from a remote canadian island to say how awesome this is, this is exactly what I want from an über powerful character on the table. Character, which this Titan has in spades. The background follows the usual trope, but I think it avoids cliche.

I love this, because it just spawns scenario ideas. Stop a rival inquisitor from calling in the Titan, sneak up to the sleeping wolf and [let it lie] poison it perhaps? And even facing it on the battlefield? Who dosn't want the chance to lead their warband against a Titan? Just to say you've done it.

I'd love to see some IC stuff, both from the titan/princeps PoV and records, reports and other in universe fluff.

[MarcoSkoll]

Sorry, slow response, I've been busy enough that whenever I've tried writing a response I haven't had the time to be satisfied with it.

And even facing it on the battlefield? Who dosn't want the chance to lead their warband against a Titan? Just to say you've done it.

I've definitely got scenarios in mind where the player characters will indirectly have to face the Titan, in that she will be a very major threat to them, but direct face-offs are definitely ruled out.

Leander is stupidly powerful - any attempt to have characters fight her would end up being hugely contrived in order to not have her murder them in two seconds flat. (Also, half the point of her is that she's too powerful to fight, and I don't really want to contradict that).

I'd love to see some IC stuff, both from the titan/princeps PoV and records, reports and other in universe fluff.

There's definitely things that I want to cover in "show, not tell" or IC fashion - the sound effects are sort of the start of that*, but there's more to come.

* Stuff like the warhorn. I looked around various discussions on the net, and a lot of those cited the Tripod sound from the War of the Worlds (Mostly the 2005 film, but although the Jeff Wayne version was suggested once or twice. ULLA!).

Sure, that's got the scary and intimidating sound, but problem was, I wanted Leander's warhorn to be something other than purely creepy. From the perspective of things like the encounter with Inquisitor Vrystok, I wanted it to be somewhat heroic too. Something you could actually rejoice at hearing.

[Radu Lykan]

Leander's fluff works for me. As you say, it will mostly be for area denial in scenarios so any crazy power levels are justified. Do you mean to make all four of the crew? (Hard wired servitors are more part of the Titan than crew?) I like the idea of them having to run a gauntlet to get to the Titan. Also a Titan crew is a prime candidate for assassination etc

[MarcoSkoll]

All four main crew will get models - in truth, I'm planning that Helane, Markel and Sheive will get two models, both standing and seated so they can be used both out of and in the Titan (but Jarlath will probably only need one).

My other vehicles so far have inaccessible cockpits because of the limitations of character models; I've given my WIP sentinel an armoured cockpit because regardless of which character is driving, it'll look "right". But trying to balance Inquisitor Shyloque's model in an open cockpit probably wouldn't look quite as nice.

But given it's almost always going to be Helane in the driving seat, there's not going to be that problem.
I will at a later date probably do some "generic" crew and armour plates so I can swap them if I need a Warhound other than Leander (while she and her crew are not exactly conventional PCs, I don't feel they're either dispensable or should be acting out of character), but the odds of any player bringing another Princeps to the table are low*.

* And just in case anyone gets ideas, I will veto it anyway, given that letting player characters have direct control of a Titan can be filed under "Frak no".

I do hope to be posting more background sometime soon, but I'm juggling a lot of things at the moment, so bear with me!

[Radu Lykan]

I have a character that could pilot Leander, I wrote that part of his background safe in the knowledge nobody was mad enough to build a 54mm Titan and so it wouldn't have much of an in game effect, just background bumf. Now though...........

[Drubbels]

For the Plasma Blastgun, you might want to use the sound of a Strider in Half-Life 2 firing its main weapon. That seems like it might be a good fit.

[MarcoSkoll]

I have a character that could pilot Leander

No, as part of the developments in the Solemne titan forges in late M38 that lead to the designation of the Variant III Warhound, the Variant II for both the Warlord and Reaver, and extensive retrofitting throughout many of the Legio's older titans, the primary MIU linkage was altered based on Magos Biologis Reveria's neural sampling protocols.
It provides a more stable connection across wider ranges of neurochemistry (such as can occur in combat), although can cause unusual symptoms on withdrawal from the link (one of the more common ones is a craving for lactose based consumables) and/or increased fatigue during long periods of operation.

However, it means the connection terminals and protocols built into Leander's main MIU (as with many of the other Principes' piloting thrones across the Legio Ruber) are incompatible with the neural jacks used by whichever gorram character I choose.

~~~~~

Anyway, I am trying to work on some guidelines for how I might deal with near misses from Titan weapons, but I'm lacking the inspiration I need at the moment, so I've been working on the next version of the RIA to see if any ideas come up.

(Unfortunately, most of the ideas so far have related to direct hits from Titan weapons and that hypersonic 30mm APHE rounds would require obscenely large numbers of dice for damage).

[Radu Lykan]

However, it means the connection terminals and protocols built into Leander's main MIU (as with many of the other Principes' piloting thrones across the Legio Ruber) are incompatible with the neural jacks used by whichever gorram character I choose.

fair enough, i am not going to argue with a titan!

regarding the sound effects, the vulcan megabolter sounds a bit too light? tiny shells bouncing in the back ground, in my head the shells are bigger than that and the actual firing noise could be a lot heavier and more threatening?
a quick search on youtube didnt turn up quite waht i was after but maybe something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sALiuWg_I1k but chunkier?

[MarcoSkoll]

fair enough, i am not going to argue with a titan!

Well, it's mostly a gameplay concern - even if a character might have a plausible excuse, I can't reasonably let them get their hands on that kind of firepower!

regarding the sound effects, the vulcan megabolter sounds a bit too light?

I'd agree, but while I was originally looking for a recording of the A-10's GAU-8 (as that's loosely what the background stats are based on), recordings of it generally aren't done very professionally, which results in a sound strongly reminiscent of someone in an oil drum farting through a bad PA system.

What you're hearing is the smaller GAU-19, which I could find decent recordings of, laid over itself three times to increase the rate of fire and then slowed down by three semi-tones, plus some extra electric motor sound effects and shell casings.

But it does sound small. So here's a new version, dropping the pitch of the GAU-19 and casings by an octave: http://www.mediafire.com/listen/qf5zboq3b13lk8q/Vulcan+6.mp3

I'd like to drop the pitch of the casings (which I think were originally around 7.62mm) a little more, but it does start to sound rather like someone's dropped a bag of spanners. Unfortunately, I don't have a great reference for what 30mm cases sound like when dropped en masse, but we're probably closer.