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The Revised Inquisitor Armoury

Started by MarcoSkoll, August 02, 2009, 06:26:52 PM

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MarcoSkoll

The AMRs... part of it was I didn't really feel they were appropriately comparable to bolters, which also fire large high velocity projectiles - that also happen to explode.
Outclassing plasma weapons didn't really make sense either.

They do actually still make pretty even ground with things like 3D10, 2D10+4 or such, particularly if combined with some of their special ammunition variants, so still have a very respectable chance of putting armoured targets out of action with system shock.
Better than giving its targets absolutely zero chance, given the damage stat is only likely to come into play when attacking player characters (if the GM needs to attack an NPC, he can either make them suitably tough, or just use his omnipotence to decide how it turns out).

However, a fair point about the Plasma Pistol. It is a little inaccurate (however, that's not dissimilar to the rulebook).
Not that sold on 2D10+2 though, as that'd actually make it less damaging than a bolt pistol. In an ideal world, I'd probably go with 3D8 or something, but D8s aren't used in Inquisitor... so, I've made it 3D10-2 for the moment.

With that in mind, V5.3.1 is now available at the previous link.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

MarcoSkoll

Hmm. Looking at the probabilities, I think I might actually prefer 5D6-2 for plasma pistol damage. Well, not too vital right now.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

Cortez

I've always felt Inquisitor unnecessarily hamstrings itself by only using d6s and d10s. Using some of the other dice types would open up far more options for different weapon and ammunition types, and the dice aren't exactly hard to get hold of.

MarcoSkoll

The limited range of dice is a little inconvenient, but not actually quite as awkward as it might seem at first glance. In any case, I stuck to the D6/D10 system for the sake of there not being any additional barrier to using the RIA.

At present, the RIA in theory demands up to (currently) 12 dice to roll any weapon damage in one. Six of each of D6s (e.g. Heavy Bolter) and D10s (e.g. High power Plasma guns).

If I started introducing D8s, D12s or D20s* into the mix, even if it has some minor probability benefits, it could add a lot of extra dice to take to any game.
*D4s can get stuffed though, as they're a) unrollable and b) caltrops. Those of you that have seen my dice collection at events may have seen a 12 sided D4, which is the only one I ever use. (I do have a couple of tetrahedral D4s, but they always stay in the dice bags/boxes.)

I have occasionally considered using the D5 as well as the D3, but the D5 and D6 aren't actually different enough to be worth complicating things.

That said, I do often use dice other than the D3, D6 and D10 for my own special rules.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

Quickdraw McGraw

I finished reading the v5-3-1.  Overall very good.  Most of the weapons are balanced between a pro and con.  I like that!  If I want to use BMF gun then I'd better be prepared to deal with the flaws.  I know earlier revisions had that, but a few tweaks a long the way can make a big difference.

I have a question and suggestion for you to Marco to consider. 

1.  Why no Imperial gauss technology?  Copying the gauss flayer isn't a great idea to me.  I'm sure the tech priest of Mars have and therefore it must exist.  But why not Gauss rifles?  Of course its still in it's experimental stages in the US military and possibly others.  I've seen video of demonstrations on tanks.  WOW!  Now if they can miniaturize that. And like you said in the beginning of the revision.  Just because Y exists doesn't mean it does in 41M.  Or something to that effect.  :)

On that tangent, It could be that its not economically efficient to supply the imperial armies of the 41M with them.  They consume great amounts of energy and they fire ballistic ammo.  Its much more cost effective to supply an army with either ballistic or energy weapons.  But the ocasional high end sniper may use it.  Of coarse with so many other weapon types it my have been cast a side.  Anyway after saying all that have you thought about adding one?

2.  The reflex scope/sights.  It seems to be missing one of it's best qualities. I have fired pistols and carbines with reflex sights and the greatest advantage I can recall is when I was aiming, I still had great awareness of everything around me.  I mean to say when I look through a "scope" I have tunnel vision.  This isn't the case with a red dot reflex sight.  When using a scope in the game you are only aware of the target and anything 2 yards around from it.  The red dot reflex isn't magnified so it has less use at distance but I think that 2 yard rule shouldn't apply.  Maybe just increasing it to 4, 6 or 10 yards will work?  Any thoughts?
Every time I see a math word problem in the warp it looks like this: 

If I have 10 ice cubes and you have 11 apples. How many pancakes will fit on the roof?

Answer:  Purple because Tyranids don't wear hats.   :P

Koval

#140
Quote from: Quickdraw McGraw on September 09, 2012, 05:33:37 PMWhy no Imperial gauss technology?  Copying the gauss flayer isn't a great idea to me.  I'm sure the tech priest of Mars have and therefore it must exist.  But why not Gauss rifles?  Of course its still in it's experimental stages in the US military and possibly others.
Just to clear up potential confusion while trying to avoid looking like I'm having a go, the "gauss weapons" we see Necrons using employ molecular disassembly beams, and the Imperium already has lasguns and bolters. While I can see electromagnetic propulsion being employed on larger platforms*, it's not going to replace las weapons any time soon for general use (in no small part because las weaponry is not only more advanced -- it's a directed-energy weapon, after all -- but also relatively easy to build, reliable, and efficient).


*While these example require particularly extreme values of "large", I can readily imagine spaceship weaponry using electromagnetic propulsion all the time. On an even more extreme level, nova cannons use what is basically the gravity-bending version to achieve stupidly high velocities. Unfortunately, this leads into Sir Isaac Newton being the deadliest son of a bitch in space, as bringing a nova cannon to an Inquisitor game would amount to turning the table, and probably everything within a couple of thousand miles as well, into a giant fireball.

MarcoSkoll

#141
Quote from: Quickdraw McGraw on September 09, 2012, 05:33:37 PMCopying the gauss flayer isn't a great idea to me.
It's a fairly common fan interpretation that the Gauss flayer in the rulebook is an inferior Imperial copy, seeing as how it's actually entirely rubbish. (In the WH40k rules, at least, they more dangerous weapons than bolters.) I've kept to that for the moment. Full on Necron weapons will probably appear in future.

QuoteBut why not Gauss rifles?  Of course its still in it's experimental stages in the US military and possibly others.
Coil guns - a term I shall use to avoid confusion with what Gauss normally means in 40k - are a potential concept and indeed I actually have a character that uses one. However, I've never imagined they'd be in any way common in the Imperium, seeing as the technology has very little benefit when compared to lasguns.

I played off the idea that they might capitalise on the fact that magnetics are inaudible, unlike the apparent crack of a lasgun displacing heated air, but the bonus would necessitate a sub-sonic projectile (rather than the hypersonics normally associated with magnetic weaponry in sci-fi).

QuoteNow if they can miniaturize that.
As regards my occasional vocation to assist with firearms design, I've actually got a heap of notes (some of which might even be worth becoming a patent application) regarding this subject.

I've actually got designs that could be done with civilian budgets and technology that would approximate a .40 S&W or .45 ACP carbine in all but weight (It's sort of the old adage about "pick two" with performance, cost and weight having to play against each other) and noise (of which there wouldn't be a lot).

QuoteWhen using a scope in the game you are only aware of the target and anything 2 yards around from it.
Actually, I have to be honest and say that I'd forgotten that rule even existed. The games I play usually treat the entire awareness section as guidelines rather than actual rules.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

Quickdraw McGraw

@ Koval-  Sorry, I don't want you to think I'm mocking you...but did you even read the second paragraph of my post?  If you did( of coarse you didn't have to) you would have seen I had already answered why I felt it would never be adopted or mass produced for the Imperial army.  And yes I understand how Flayers work in principal.  I have always called magnetic coil guns: Gauss weaponry long before Necrons even existed.  Thanks to Rifts and Battletech.   ;)   Sorry for that miss understanding.

@ Marco-

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on September 09, 2012, 06:25:23 PM
It's a fairly common fan interpretation that the Gauss flayer in the rulebook is an inferior Imperial copy, seeing as how it's actually entirely rubbish. (In the WH40k rules, at least, they more dangerous weapons than bolters.) I've kept to that for the moment. Full on Necron weapons will probably appear in future.

I didn't even draw a connection between folks thinking the gauss flayer in the Inquisitor book was a inferior imperial made one.  I should have known, but I've always thought it was lacking something too.  The psychological fear factor of seeing your comrade's face stripped to the bone right before you.  Other than Pysker abilites, grenades and monsters do you even see this coming into play.  Psychological warfare on the battlefield shouldn't be ignored.  You just might not need to fire that second shot if the enemy has turned heels and running for their lives.

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on September 09, 2012, 06:25:23 PM
However, I've never imagined they'd be in any way common in the Imperium, seeing as the technology has very little benefit when compared to lasguns.

Oh, I agree.  I wasn't asking for anyone to arm their armies with them.  They do have a niche i believe that could excel pass lasguns but at what cost?

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on September 09, 2012, 06:25:23 PM
I played off the idea that they might capitalise on the fact that magnetics are inaudible, unlike the apparent crack of a lasgun displacing heated air, but the bonus would necessitate a sub-sonic projectile (rather than the hypersonics normally associated with magnetic weaponry in sci-fi at some point.

The first time I ever saw a video of this technology in action was a tank fitted with a "electromagnetic cannon" in the desert firing at a sealed steel box full of chickens!  The box was as thick as med. tank armor and with a dozen chickens in it.  Not only did the solid tank round pierce and exit the steel box( leaving it intact too), it created a vacuum sucking out all the chicken across the desert.  All they could find of the chickens was a single feather!

Yes, I believe the Magnetics are inaudible, a rifle maybe a little bulky, maybe slow to recharge but most likely armor piercing and accurate at long ranges.   Not really for everyone but a sniper of the future may consider it?

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on September 09, 2012, 06:25:23 PM
Actually, I have to be honest and say that I'd forgotten that rule even existed. The games I play usually treat the entire awareness section as guidelines rather than actual rules.

Ha ha, It's not used much I'm sure.  A shame really the awareness section adds a little more realism.  But on a fun note, I do remember in a game were someone spend a turn or two overwatching an alleyway through their infrascope.  And an enemy character approached close enough behind cover to attack from the 2o'clock position while the sniper lay on the ground!  The GM placed penalties to the sniper's hearing( an open face helmet w/no auto senses) and to sight because of his focus on the alleyway.  Short answer the sniper failed...

I hope this helps.  You could just dismiss it if you please but as I said I would be having a closer look at your revisions and helping where I could.

Have a great day!
Josh
Every time I see a math word problem in the warp it looks like this: 

If I have 10 ice cubes and you have 11 apples. How many pancakes will fit on the roof?

Answer:  Purple because Tyranids don't wear hats.   :P

Koval

Quote from: Quickdraw McGraw on September 10, 2012, 04:15:27 AM
@ Koval-  Sorry, I don't want you to think I'm mocking you...but did you even read the second paragraph of my post? 
I did indeed. Hence "potential confusion" in case it confused anyone else, rather than simply "confusion" or "possible confusion" which would've implied you were the confused one.

In any case I'm still not entirely sure the Imperium would bother when they've got more advanced weaponry available (and aren't afraid to use it)

N01H3r3

On the subject of coilguns and similar technology, I included a weapon upgrade in the Rogue Trader sourcebook Hostile Acquisitions called Mag-Lev Impellor, that basically represented this sort of weaponry (increased damage, increased range, increased reload time as you have to change a power supply as well as refilling or replacing the magazine). I left most of the details vague, but made it clear that the Adeptus Mechanicus don't like outsiders dabbling with the technology. It was approved by GW's IP guys, and mention of similar technologies in regards to starship weaponry (the Nova Cannon is one such example, but far from the only one) suggests that the Imperium has access to such devices, though they're not widely-employed for whatever reason.
Contributing Writer for many Warhammer 40,000 Roleplay books, including Black Crusade

Professional Games Designer.

MarcoSkoll

Quote from: Quickdraw McGraw on September 10, 2012, 04:15:27 AMOh, I agree.  I wasn't asking for anyone to arm their armies with them.  They do have a niche i believe that could excel pass lasguns but at what cost?
I'll look into the concept, but don't expect it to appear in any huge rush.

QuoteHa ha, It's not used much I'm sure.  A shame really the awareness section adds a little more realism.
That's not to say that the concepts aren't used, but that they're used in a looser fashion. It's more like: "You're wearing a helmet, you're aiming at someone else and this guy is coming in from the side... so we'll call that a -60 to see him."

However, I'll see if I can work something out in any case.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

Quickdraw McGraw

@Koval- Thanks for the help.   ;D. Writings can be at times such an inefficient way to communicate.  And I'm no exception.   ;)

@No1h3r3-  Thanks for that info!   :)  I would love to play Dark Heresy but my Rpg groups find it too grimm.  Oh, well.  :-\

@Marco- No worries. There's no rush.  I really was just asking when I saw the Gauss flayer.  I thought... "Where's the Electromagnetic coil guns?"

Have a great day!
Josh
Every time I see a math word problem in the warp it looks like this: 

If I have 10 ice cubes and you have 11 apples. How many pancakes will fit on the roof?

Answer:  Purple because Tyranids don't wear hats.   :P

Koval

Quote from: N01H3r3 on September 10, 2012, 11:08:13 AM
though they're not widely-employed for whatever reason.
I imagine they'd really only see mainstream use when they're literally the most efficient option, for example when you want to get a cruiser's macrobatteries working (because, as far as I understand these things, you're not going to fling several hundred tonnes of ordnance out across the void using only conventional methods unless you want to play hell with your own gun)

Quote from: Quickdraw McGraw on September 10, 2012, 02:09:03 PM
I would love to play Dark Heresy but my Rpg groups find it too grimm.  Oh, well.  :-\
I admit the timing may not be the most ideal arrangement, but a few of us on the 'Clave run DH (and Rogue Trader) over Skype. Probably worth floating past whoever's running the sessions.

Quickdraw McGraw

Quote from: Koval on September 10, 2012, 06:17:42 PM
I admit the timing may not be the most ideal arrangement, but a few of us on the 'Clave run DH (and Rogue Trader) over Skype. Probably worth floating past whoever's running the sessions.
OK, thanks!  I wouldn't want to impose though. I would most likely just be happy to play an NPC for a session just to see if I like it. 

Josh
Every time I see a math word problem in the warp it looks like this: 

If I have 10 ice cubes and you have 11 apples. How many pancakes will fit on the roof?

Answer:  Purple because Tyranids don't wear hats.   :P

Quickdraw McGraw

#149
Marco- Any thoughts on weapons and bionic replacements?  I mean for example;  A character has a bionic hand replacement utilizing one of your new Las pistol revisions. What would the enc value be? Without a stock/grip and trigger assembly would it be -10, -20 or -25% off the total value?  What about heavier weapons?  Would recoil differ now that the elbow joint takes the brunt of the force rather than the tiny wrist bone in comparison? 

Sorry about all the odd questions but that's how my abby-normal brain works.  ;D
Every time I see a math word problem in the warp it looks like this: 

If I have 10 ice cubes and you have 11 apples. How many pancakes will fit on the roof?

Answer:  Purple because Tyranids don't wear hats.   :P