The Revised Inquisitor Armoury

[MarcoSkoll]

Ugh. I REALLY shouldn't have done it when I'm already pressed for the time to try and get other things sorted out, but...

Revised Inquisitor Armoury, Alpha Version #5

And before you ask... yes, there are draft lasweapon rules in this one. They're a bit rough around the edges, but they are there.

There's also crude (and as of yet, only loosely tested) Graviton gun rules - which will probably get cut back from the current 5 firing modes, but I'd like to see which of the five you like, and which you don't.

Needle weapons have been added, if slightly cursorily. I've tried to shift the focus on them away from direct damage and make them more... passive weapons. If you really want to do damage, you can use the new explosive needles, but for the most part, I've tried to make it so they're about the effects of the toxins.

There's also a slight update on two of the shotgun shells in an attempt to better represent the way that shot spreads out, offering an increased likelihood of multiple hits at close range, but less hits at long range. It's based to some extent on Precinct Omega's Inq2 semi rules - it may be a little over complex (let me know if you think so), but I've tried to keep the maths reasonably simple.*

*Probably the story of the RIA as a whole. Trying to add in variety and some accuracy without making any single rule too clunky.

There are a few other minor fixes, but nothing too big.

[N01H3r3]

And before you ask... yes, there are draft lasweapon rules in this one. They're a bit rough around the edges, but they are there.

I like the first draft of the lasweapon rules. As something I've pondered previously, I've spotted a couple of things I remember from my own research into the existing background surrounding the matter.

21 Megathule lasguns (like the Lucius-pattern ones used by the Death Korps of Krieg) tend to heat up faster than their lower-powered equivalents. In the Lucius-pattern, this is compensated for by a series of heat-sink rings around the barrel, and by reducing the rate of fire (which in turn makes them stylistically more like the rifles used in WWI, fitting the general theme of the Krieg forces).

Beyond that, the background-stated charge-pack sizes are (if memory serves) as follows: 18 mth (my own abbreviation for Megathule) have 60-shot packs, 19 mth use 50-shot packs (or rather, consume the pack's charge in 50 shots), 21 mth like the Lucius-pattern discharge their packs in 25 shots, and per the Dark Heresy rules, Hellguns (25 mth weapons) discharge a standard powerpack in 5 shots, necessitating the use of larger backpack-mounted power supplies.

[MarcoSkoll]

Well, I admit that I certainly have to poke around at exact details (including Mth rating affecting rate of fire), as I was winging more than a few things at various times. Trying to piece together various rules so that there were minimal numbers of either truly killer or completely useless combinations.

So yeah, the shot capacities (among other things) are probably somewhat "out there"- but there doesn't seem to be any really canonical answer anyway. The Munitorum Manual lists shot capacities in the range of "150 shots conservative use", but many sources give answers that only stretch to in double figures.

I'll go back over it all in a day or so, but still, you at least get the basic idea of what I'm trying to do - create a system that represents the ubiquity and versatility of lasguns by giving them a what turned out to be a literal* myriad of possible combinations.
I'm hoping that having set down the basic idea, any feedback can help me turn it into a slightly more fluid system, but I at least wanted to offer some rules for a mostly complete Imperial armoury before the IGT.

*Literal in the sense that there are actually exactly 10,000 possible lasgun combinations - 10,000 being the classical value of a myriad.

[Inquisitor Cade]

I make no secret that I favour las weapons and I like a lot of what you've done here. I'd certainly have done some things differently though.

I'd have thought that the power packs would be the same for laspistols and lasrifles. I prefered the way N01H3r3 did it back in the day, with several sizes of powerpack, and while it was assummed that pistols would typically have the smaller version and rifles the larger, they weren't limited to either, so it was possible to have a laspistol that takes the same powerpacks as a lasgun. I think the 40k cadian infantry laspistol is an example of this.

In fact I don't think it is necessary to do laspistols separate from lasguns at all. If you renamed the powerpacks and discharge generators from the pistol list and added a rifle or pistol suffix to some of the barrels and frames you could make it all a single, more versetile list.

I think having default power modes other than low is too complex and unecessary when there are megathule ratings already. I'd keep low as default for all of them.

I'd also not label the discharge generators after Mars etc. The whole point is that there are thousands of lasgun patterns from thousands of worlds. Saying they have to be based of a design from one of five worlds seems to fly in the face of that a bit.

Lastly for now, I think you've been a bit harsh with the ranges. You said that a lasgun shoots in a straght line forever, yet lasweapons have worse range that the equivalent autogun.

I'm afraid there is more, mostly originating from our different envisionings of the humble lasgun, but to end for now on a positive, I think the doppler muzzles are great.

[Aidan]

Congrats on making Lasweapons interesting. I like what you've done with them, although admittedly I don't understand much about them so I can't judge if you've done them right. But these rules will allow me to reproduce all the alternate designs of lasweapons I've been throwing out there in my campaigns, this time with guidelines.

I would say that the magazine sizes are a little gigantic, but from my experience lasweapons almost never run out in a scenario anyway, given their huge number of shots compared to rate of fire (I mean, who is ever going to shoot 30 times with a laspistol in one scenario?). With your increased rates of fire, I can see more use for big magazines, but some do still look a bit large. We'll see what happens.

-Aidan.

[MarcoSkoll]

In fact I don't think it is necessary to do laspistols separate from lasguns at all.

It can probably be avoided, and I did consider it at one point.

However, this then means you have more "mutually exclusive" parts on each list, and I thought it would be a better idea to just have two separate lists than one with lots of "if this, then not this or if that, then you must have this".

I think having default power modes other than low is too complex and unecessary when there are megathule ratings already.

I recognise it's not great. What I should probably do is simplify it by building in "Medium" automatically - making it so that the generator is +2 damage, but half shots, then shifting down the power modes by one step.

I'd also not label the discharge generators after Mars

You have a better option than naming them after the Forge world where the pattern originated? They can't be simplified into a basic description too easily, and it's better than numbering them.

Lastly for now, I think you've been a bit harsh with the ranges.

I probably have. Like I said, the lasgun rules as a whole are rough around the edges, and designed to give a flavour of the intended end result. I've been penning these rules since an early stage of the project, and I admit that some problems have hung on from the original drafts.

I'll be fixing things with some kind of update soon (well, less time than this one took).

but to end for now on a positive, I think the doppler muzzles are great.

Something of a misnomer (and given that Doppler has likely been forgotten in the GrimDark, unlikely in its own right), but I figured it was a shortcut to "different wavelengths".

Ideally, I'd like to make "Blueshift muzzles" at least slightly distinct from conventional AP ammunition, but I'll work on that as I go.

I would say that the magazine sizes are a little gigantic...

Probably. I kinda need to find a way of making it so that the shot count of modestly powered lasguns isn't insane, but more powerful weapons aren't reloading too frequently.

[Inquisitor Cade]

However, this then means you have more "mutually exclusive" parts on each list, and I thought it would be a better idea to just have two separate lists than one with lots of "if this, then not this or if that, then you must have this".

Why not rely on wysiwyg. Sure the rules don't stop you having a laspistol with a longlas barrel, but do you have a convincing model of one? If I somehow contrive a model of a bullpup weapon with a gyrostabalised stock then why shouldn't it be allowed?

You have a better option than naming them after the Forge world where the pattern originated? They can't be simplified into a basic description too easily, and it's better than numbering them.

But maybe my lasgun isn't based on a design from one of those forgeworlds... I'd go with classic, high power, supercharged, standard and multi, respecively, or something like that.

incedentaly, what fire mechanism do you envision the kantreal and the necromunda patterns having that allow semi 3 or 4 but not semi 2?

[Dust King]

First off great rules, I'm finally going to get round to giving one of my characters a laspistol because of these rules because no one in my warband actually uses a lasgun (aside from a guard veteran with a multilaser, but I hope they will be included in the armoury eventually )

Also I like the doppler muzzle, I think this is probably one of the best answers to the question of what colour are las shots.

Also the plasma flamer looks very interesting, I'm already having character ideas based around that weapon.

The gravaton gun also looks good, perhaps you could deal with the different fire modes by giving them a minimum sagacity (or sagacity test) required for each mode (point and impulse being the simplest to use, wide and repulsion being moderately difficult and control being the hardest) to represent how the gun actually requires you to understand how it works and to think carefully about your "shots"

Needle weapons look better, ignoring half the armour should definitely make them more useful.


Anyway, Good job!!! As always I look forward to what you will do next    

[MarcoSkoll]

Why not rely on wysiwyg.

And as I have said before, the RIA is not meant to account for any and every possible weirdness that players can come up with.

If a player can muster the unlikelihood of a laspistol with a long-las barrel, then they can jolly well write their own rules for the monstrosity. I'm not writing fifty trillion weapon profiles just so no-one EVER has to cope with the horror of coming up with their own stat-lines.

But maybe my lasgun isn't based on a design from one of those forgeworlds...

Maybe it's not. While I'll look into changing it, is it really any harder to rename "Mars Pattern Discharge Generator" than it is "Classic Pattern Discharge Generator"?

I don't really recommend that people think of anything from the RIA as a "Low Magnum Revolver" or "Light Assault Rifle". I'd much rather hear that someone had a "Casett Pattern 62 Revolver - 9mm Magnum" or a "Jagodian Fully compact reciprocating machine rifle".

The names are placeholders for the purposes of the list. Really, when the weapon actually reaches the character it should HAVE character.

what fire mechanism do you envision the kantreal and the necromunda patterns having that allow semi 3 or 4 but not semi 2?

Burst fire or whatever.
Sometimes I cut out the Semi(2) option so that the weapon didn't have the advantage of a perfect sliding scale of fire rates.

@Dust King:

- Multilasers are on the way, but will probably be much less versatile. They're not often mass produced for infantry. Alternatively, you can consider the Valdis pattern generator.

- Not quite what I intended with the Doppler muzzle, but I suppose that works.

- The plasma flamer is little more than a split-off of the Sustained mode from the V4 armoury, but okay.

- Interesting idea about linking sagacity and graviton gun performance. I was playing with the idea of treating them similar to the rules for Archeotech in the Explorator's article earlier, but thought it a bit too much. Your suggestion  may be a better idea.

- As far as Needle weapons: Bear in mind, the damage has been halved as well (so its effectiveness versus armour is pretty similar). Like I said, I wanted to make it so that the shot itself was little more than a carrier for the toxin, not something that was a killer in its own right.
I thought it on the unfair side to offer both poisoning and a large chunk added to injury total.

[Kaled]

The patterns are named after the Forge World which discovered that design rather than on which Forge World a particular weapon was made, so having a set of Discharge Generators named after Forge Worlds makes perfect sense.  So if someone's lasgun was made based on a design from some other Forge World then either it can counts as one of the existing patterns or they need to make up your own rules - seems a sensible enough system to me.

[Ynek]

Just took a look over your graviton rules, and I can't help but feeling that someone's been playing a quite a bit of Half-life 2 recently.

Anyway, I quite liked the rules, but I would like to have seen options for different types of graviton gun. For instance, one type might be more powerful, capable of creating a gravity field powerful enough to crush a man under his own weight... Or perhaps there would be a firing mode which caused someone's armour to collapse in on itself whilst the character is still inside....

Just a couple of ideas. On the whole, the revised armoury is coming along beautifully, and I look forward to seeing what other ideas you come out with in due time.

[MarcoSkoll]

Just took a look over your graviton rules, and I can't help but feeling that someone's been playing a quite a bit of Half-life 2 recently.

I can't really. My laptop has now either been out of commission or taken away for repair for 5 weeks now, so no gaming unfortunately.

Either way, it was my brother who misheard me as "Gravity Gun", and I thought I might as well play with the idea.

For instance, one type might be more powerful, capable of creating a gravity field powerful enough to crush a man under his own weight...

Potentially, but I wasn't looking for the Graviton Gun to be a deadly weapon. Still, the basic "Point" mode does include some potential to do damage, representing the character being badly overcome by their increased weight.

Or perhaps there would be a firing mode which caused someone's armour to collapse in on itself whilst the character is still inside....

Well, really, that strength of gravity would be lethal with or without the armour thrown into the mix.

Although there is an interesting idea there. I'm reminded of the "Rule of Burning Iron" spell from Warhammer (where a character's armour basically heats up, causing more damage the heavier said armour is).
Perhaps there's room for a weapon that uses electromagnetic induction and *insert technobabble and pseudoscience here* - thus causing any metals a character might be carrying to heat up, be that weapons, armour, etc.

That would be a fun one to use on over-equipped characters... "Yeah, your power armour has started to melt into your skin I'm afraid."

[Ynek]

That would be a fun one to use on over-equipped characters... "Yeah, your power armour has started to melt into your skin I'm afraid."

That's pretty much what I had in mind - Such a piece of equipment would make weighing down your character with too much armour that little bit less attractive.

Or perhaps there would be a firing mode which caused someone's armour to collapse in on itself whilst the character is still inside....

Well, really, that strength of gravity would be lethal with or without the armour thrown into the mix.

Not necessarily... Since the effect of the gravity field itself would basically be like having a human lie on his back whilst an immensely powerful gravitational force pulls down on him. He might survive it, but adding weights onto his chest, such as carapace armour plates, could compress his ribcage making breathing difficult.

However, the energy demands of such a weapon would be considerable, as generating that number of gravitons would certainly be extremely expensive in energy terms. I would imagine it might even expend the entire power cell in a single shot.

[Inquisitor Cade]

I had a look back at this, and unless I'm mistaken the Hellgun you've put together has a bullpup frame and a stock, which you've forbidden, and the profile is from the 21 megathule chamber, not the 28 megathule on that it should be.

[MarcoSkoll]

Yeah, you've found one of the mistakes the upcoming V5.1 update will be correcting.
I messed that one up - it's got the wrong chamber, and the profile actually refers to no possible combination of parts, legal or illegal.

I'll be going through fixing things here and there before I start work on the V6 expansion - although what V6 will include, I don't know.