Author Topic: i was wondering about spirit stones for a campaign  (Read 4495 times)

Offline Lucaren

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i was wondering about spirit stones for a campaign
« on: January 19, 2010, 08:50:40 PM »
I'm running a campaign amoungst me and mates and despite the fact we are quite casual gamers i still like to have my fluff and 40k universe science correct. So would it be possible for an inquisitor who is a psyker of the ordo xenos to use an eldar spirit stone to save his soul. This is because he has sold his soul to a deamon and he is now trying to cheet the deamon. This inquisitor has studdied the eldar and has met an eladar ranger (that he will later kill to gain the spirit stone). so i am wondering if my idea is possible or if i need to go back to the drawing board.

Matt

Offline Kaled

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Re: i was wondering about spirit stones for a campaign
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2010, 08:56:09 PM »
Does it matter whether it's possible?  The Inquisitor can believe it is, maybe the Eldar have even manipulated him and convinced him it is...

Also, IIRC one of the characters in the Thorian Sourcebook has done some research with spirit stones and has tried to replicate their effects - might give you some ideas.
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: i was wondering about spirit stones for a campaign
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2010, 09:25:38 PM »
I while I very much agree with the above - if he thinks it's possible that's good enough to use as a basis - I'd say that in practical terms, it probably wouldn't work.

The stone wouldn't be attuned to the human mind/a human spirit wouldn't be strong enough/etc - something would probably stop it working.
Not saying for certain that it couldn't work, but it just seems far more likely that it wouldn't.
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Offline Tullio

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Re: i was wondering about spirit stones for a campaign
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2010, 02:16:00 PM »
Yeah, there's a million and one ways to muck up that plan ... especially if the daemon later hunts down the Stone and devours it anyway (Wap-wap-waaaah). It sounds like a perfectly good premise though, especially since if the Ranger's kin hear about this plan, they'll be looking to do bloody murder upon the Inquisitor

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Offline Vladimir

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Re: i was wondering about spirit stones for a campaign
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2010, 09:40:16 PM »
I can see that working, actually, but only if said inquisitor is an incredibly powerful psyker, and incredibly smart (or well supported) to make it work.

(incidentally, why not just summon up and bind the hell out of the daemon in question? Much simpler, and less likely to incur the wrath of the scariest civilisaton in the galaxy...)
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Offline Ferran

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Re: i was wondering about spirit stones for a campaign
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2010, 09:54:29 PM »
Pretty sure that binding a daemon would be quite complex and dangerous.

Maybe this Inquisitor thinks that he can use the stone to find a material that can be attuned to capture a human spirit.

Offline Shard

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Re: i was wondering about spirit stones for a campaign
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2010, 11:03:29 PM »
Three ways the Inquisitor could save his soul from the daemon (all supported by canon):

1. Make a deal with the Dark Eldar, as they have soul-sustaining technology (they do like to keep them around to torture)

2. Make a deal with some non-spiky Eldar, via means both foul and tedious. After all, they're the ones that do it the most. 

3. Do what Pontius Glaw did and make a 'magic box' to keep the soul in.


Otherwise, as long as the process seems suitably difficult and scholarly, with a suitable amount of pseudo-science, forbidden/alien know-how and some perilous encounters, it could be plausible. It would also upset the Ordo Xenos somewhat, I'd imagine, should they ever get to hear about it...

Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: i was wondering about spirit stones for a campaign
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2010, 07:48:10 AM »
Three ways the Inquisitor could save his soul from the daemon (all supported by canon)
Depends on how far you are prepared to call something canon. Personally, I tend to think of the BL stuff as "semi-canon". It might be the way of things - but the writers have a habit of running away with things, and writing stuff that actually contradicts canon.

So, I might agree with a BL source, I might not. I wouldn't ever submit one as hard evidence.

Quote
1. Make a deal with the Dark Eldar, as they have soul-sustaining technology (they do like to keep them around to torture)
Can't see the Dark Eldar being prepared to deal. Most likely, they'd just kill him for their own amusement. He might end up with a preserved soul, but not in the way he'd want.

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2. Make a deal with some non-spiky Eldar, via means both foul and tedious. After all, they're the ones that do it the most.
They do it the most, but for Eldar souls. Eldar souls are far, far stronger than any human soul (save perhaps examples like He-on-Terra).

Almost no human souls are actually strong enough to maintain any coherence after death... not that humans necessarily realise that.
The reason Eldar use the spirit stones in the first place is because their spirits are strong enough to exist coherently after death - and better the peaceful existence within a spirit stone than being drawn into the warp and falling foul of She Who Thirsts.

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3. Do what Pontius Glaw did and make a 'magic box' to keep the soul in.
Again, potential argument about the "canon-ness" of BL sources - Abnett being particularly prone to running away with things.

It is possible that a human with exceptional psychic strength might have a "soul" that was strong enough to be preserved after death - but personally, I work on the basis that almost no humans could possibly do such a thing, nor would it really matter if they didn't.

So, I don't think it would work unless the Inquisitor is a mind-bendingly powerful psyker in the first place - which might explain the daemon's interest. However, psykers of that power level are usually insane, and far too powerful to include in games of Inquisitor.

But like has already been said, the important thing is not that it will work, but that the Inquisitor believes that it would.
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Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
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Offline Gnaeus Conlitor

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Re: i was wondering about spirit stones for a campaign
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2010, 10:19:01 AM »
You could always be an utter bastard and do what the Farseer did in the novel of the same name. Plant a spirit stone in an unsuspecting lacky and possess them when you die.
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Offline N01H3r3

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Re: i was wondering about spirit stones for a campaign
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2010, 11:18:57 AM »
Quote
1. Make a deal with the Dark Eldar, as they have soul-sustaining technology (they do like to keep them around to torture)
Can't see the Dark Eldar being prepared to deal. Most likely, they'd just kill him for their own amusement. He might end up with a preserved soul, but not in the way he'd want.
Depends on the Dark Eldar. They're vicious and sadistic and cruel, yes, but they're not above mercenary work, for the right price (and the right price is often hundreds of slaves)... just watch for their tendancy to get bored and not consider deals with humans to actually have any meaning, leading to a swift and unpleasant betrayal.
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Offline DapperAnarchist

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Re: i was wondering about spirit stones for a campaign
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2010, 06:18:21 PM »
I suppose the Dark Eldar might be tempted to assist - but I think it would be a huge price - perhaps trading a world to them?
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Offline Lucaren

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Re: i was wondering about spirit stones for a campaign
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2010, 08:21:59 PM »
Firstly i am liking the ideas alot

Secondly apologies for a lack of replys from me GCSEs have been mental  :P

Also i don't think i explained the situation well enough, sorry about that my fault.

The inquisitor who is ment to incredibly inteligent and a powerful pysker. The reason for him being unable to bind this deamon is he is an inquisitor of the ordo xenos and so just lacks enough knowledge and training and he can't ask another inquisitor to help him as he has done a deal with said deamon.

another point i was not clear on is this inquisitor will not actually take part in this campaign. It will be his great great  grandson who is being punished like his father and grandfather for the trick that this inquisitor played upon the deamon.

I hope this helps clear up any problems please ask if you wish me to go any further into my idea.

Matt

Offline DapperAnarchist

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Re: i was wondering about spirit stones for a campaign
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2010, 09:01:51 PM »
One absolute plus there - "he can't bind it because he doesn't know how". Thats a yes. Binding Daemons must be extremely difficult and require huge amounts of dark knowledge...
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Offline MarcoSkoll

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Re: i was wondering about spirit stones for a campaign
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2010, 02:23:35 AM »
Another point I was not clear on is this inquisitor will not actually take part in this campaign. It will be his great great  grandson who is being punished like his father and grandfather for the trick that this inquisitor played upon the daemon.
Ah, right. That completely changes things. The trick has already happened, and worked...

Well, you don't really need to know how the Inquisitor cheated the daemon. Perhaps it's a mystery to your character as well. Somehow, he bound his soul into an artefact, but you're never quite sure where the artefact came from, how the soul is bound in, etc.
And from there, I think you could use Tullio's idea. Like he said, this artefact is essentially defenceless, so now the Inquisitor's bloodline must protect said trinket from the daemon - which is why the daemon is chasing your character.

You could even have some interesting rules for the trinket. Perhaps it on occasion confers sudden glimpses of crucial moments in the character's immediate future (which I'd represent with Plain Dumb Luck), or something similar. Then again, maybe it has penalties as well... (included amongst which is being chased endlessly by a stroppy daemon)
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Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
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Offline Lucaren

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Re: i was wondering about spirit stones for a campaign
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2010, 06:24:33 PM »
i like it,

consider it nicked.

yeah thanks guys i think that will really work and so will now continue writting this campaign.

thanks again, i will hopefully report more on this once it is in action.

Matt