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Flamers - someone got angry

Started by Nemesis, January 29, 2010, 08:20:07 AM

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Nemesis

Last night gameswork shop had a inquisitor game going so i toke in a gemon huntress with a basic flamer.

Well what happen was i shot this eldar character (dual wielding power swords with 101 WS and speed 6)which had sprinted. Shotting my basic skill of 60 negative 30 because of 30 yard sprint, i hit him on a 08. Getting the hit and damaging him in the chest which did catch on fire rolled 24.

Next turn all he could do was put out the fire which toke 4/5 actions to do. GM says because it toke you 4 actions to put the Fire out your last action is losted.

My turn again i flamed him again but because he did not move i got 2 hits this time Plus d6+1 per hit making a total 9 hits. Which leaves him totally dead.

Was i ment to hit him Like "Space - Eldar - Space" Meaning my hits would be spread out or was it fare that i got him good?

Are Flamers over powered? I don't think so it was one vs one so he got unlucky or he should of had back up?

MarcoSkoll

At the moment, I'm trying a house rule for being on fire that you have to pass a Toughness test at the start of the turn with a GM fudged modifier for the number of locations on fire and how well protected those locations are. So, a bionic arm or heavily armoured location on fire would result in minimal/no penalty, but several unarmoured locations on fire (or the head!) would be a very large penalty.

If you pass, you may assign your actions as you want. If you fail, I'm currently working with you have to spend all actions putting out the fire, but with actions only succeeding on a 5+ as you fail ineffectively about in pain.
And yes, the toughness test applies even if you wanted to assign your actions to putting out the fire anyway - no-one ever said you had to think rationally and effectively when on fire!

I guess Frenzied characters should get some kind of bonus - maybe a re-roll. (Failure might snap a character out of their Frenzy if appropriate.)

I don't pretend it's particularly well tested so far, but I've seen enough Space Marines end up with their leg on fire, then fluff their action roll, spend the whole turn putting out their leg, then get flamed again.
However, the one that struck me as really wrong was the Eversor Assassin going down to a flamer, then getting shot repeatedly while he was down - come on, if they were that easy to kill, they wouldn't be much of a threat.

And really, who doesn't think that a skull masked assassin charging at you ON FIRE isn't frakking awesome? Now that's a terror weapon!

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Also, Ninjas can't catch you when you're on fire. It's proven.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

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greenstuff_gav

Quote from: MarcoSkoll on January 29, 2010, 09:32:03 AM
I guess Frenzied characters should get some kind of bonus - maybe a re-roll. (Failure might snap a character out of their Frenzy if appropriate.)

while i don't know the Inquisitor flamer rules, i think in 40k 2nd (Necromunda and Gorkamorka), frenzied miniatures can ignore the fire (and stuill take damage) while anyone else can't do anything other'n attempt to put fire out...
i make no apologies, i warned you my ability to roll ones was infectious...

Build Your Imagination

Nemesis

And really, who doesn't think that a skull masked assassin charging at you ON FIRE isn't frakking awesome? Now that's a terror weapon!

Frenzied Character on fire charging at you = Fearsome; if already Fearsome then your terrifying. Unstoppable Carnage.

What about the D6+1 hits if they don't move. Because they charge it form range to Targets movement.

MarcoSkoll

Well, as far as range, yes, there probably should be some modifier to the number of hits.

Perhaps at over half range (or maybe a set figure in the range of 10 yards), you should have to roll twice for the number of hits and pick the lower.

Part of my fix for the power of flamers in the LRB was cutting their range...

...however, I've just looked at the latest file, and there are a series of ranges there that aren't even close to what I intended, and I've no idea how they've ended up like that. (Uploads corrected version)...

... but a reduction in range doesn't do all that much for cutting their effectiveness, because often, they're still in range anyway.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

Kaled

Leaving aside the question of whether the flame weapon rules could be improved...

Quote from: Nemesis on January 29, 2010, 08:20:07 AM
Well what happen was i shot this eldar character (dual wielding power swords with 101 WS and speed 6)which had sprinted. Shotting my basic skill of 60 negative 30 because of 30 yard sprint, i hit him on a 08. Getting the hit and damaging him in the chest which did catch on fire rolled 24.
I rarely use flame weapons, but in the past I've assumed that like full-auto weapons the speed a target is moving does not modify the to hit roll - instead their speed is taken into account by the number of hits they take.  But now that I reread the rules they don't actually say that...  In any case, the modifier for shooting at a running or sprinting character is -12 not -30.

QuoteMy turn again i flamed him again but because he did not move i got 2 hits this time Plus d6+1 per hit making a total 9 hits. Which leaves him totally dead.
Maybe I'm misreading what you did, but it's not D6+1 hits for each to hit roll you pass - you roll to hit the target D6+1 times for each shot.  But still, two bursts from a flamer at a stationary target is likely to take most characters out of the game.

QuoteWas i ment to hit him Like "Space - Eldar - Space" Meaning my hits would be spread out or was it fare that i got him good?
No, there's no need to flame empty spaces unless you're firing at a widely spread group of characters.

QuoteAre Flamers over powered? I don't think so it was one vs one so he got unlucky or he should of had back up?
I think the moral of the story is, don't get too close to people wielding flamers.  If he'd managed to charge you while wielding two power swords then you'd likely be the one who died in a messy fashion!
I like to remember things my own way... Not necessarily the way they happened.

Inquisitor - Blood Bowl - Malifaux - Fairy Meat

DapperAnarchist

It seems to me that that guy assumed his Eldar Superwarrior Character would auto-win... If he'd been running a much lower power character, then I might be more accepting of his complaint... But if he had (ad hominem attack coming up) he may not have been the sort to complain... Though, yes, the flaming making you stop seems odd. Perhaps it should act like Pinning, where you must go for cover?
Questions are a burden to others, answers a burden to oneself.

The Keltani Subsector  My P&M Thread - Most recent, INQ28!

Nemesis

He was upset because it was 2v3.

On my side was my daemon hunter (Ws 80 power halberd; Bs 60 Flamer ;S 60 ; T 60) displacement field

The other guy had two enforcers one had a Cyber Mastiff both had shot guns with 12 executioner rounds each. shock mauls.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

The Other Team was
1st player
Eldar Ranger dual wielding power swords conversion shield

2nd player
Bounty hunter with long rifle (he hid in the corner ruin shooting form the window all game)

3rd player
Inquisitor with daemon sword and psychic powers; choke, force lighting, warp strenght, regenerate (May the force be with you) and a Wyrd with fireball

_______________________________________________________________________________________

The objective was a ruin in the centre (summoning circle) we are meant to get there and activate it with 8 successful Sg tests then we get a random roll D100 to see what we get.
_______________________________________________________________________________________
Round 1
Eldar came straight at the two enforcers 50 yard sprint first round he hide behind some cover.
I moved to the ruins drawing my flamers taking cover.
Both enforcers open fire one on the bounty hunter one on the inquisitor doing minor wounds
Inquisitor fails all action rolls gets free action sprint.
Wyrd gets two actions sprint and concentrate
Cyber mastiff move towards eldar
Bounty hunter shots at cyber mastiff and does 1pt of damage.

Round 2
One of the Enforces uses lighting reflexs shoots the eldar again doing little damage
Eldar rolls 2 actions just out of range of the enforcer
I move and shot at inquisitor hit doing damage and he catches on fire
Enforcer shoots Inquistor again doing more minor damage
Inqusitor puts out fire
Wyrd Fails at throwning the fire ball
Cyber mastiff fetch attacking eldar; eldar parries and dodges all attacks.
Bounty hunter shots ats enforcer which does no damage

Form this point on the eldar is stuck in combet with the mastiff for like 4 turns (getting low damages on all rolls) until last he destroys it then he moves onto the enforcer which he takes out in 2 turns; While this is going on bounty hunter shots daemon hunter forcing her displacement field to teleport me 1yard away form Inquisitor which in turn out rolls me on Initiative both had same "I". Which he chokes me for 5 rounds and moves on to the ruins.

They activite the Summoning circle which they roll a 93 on random higher bad lower good; A bloodletter was summoned GM used a straight 100 stat line. But alone with the Bloodletter a Daemon sword is also summoned.

Now primary Objective is to take sword off the board Secondary is to take out the bloodletter;

   Wyrd to Massacred by the bloodletter, Inquisitor runs, Eldar sprints towards the inquisitor, Enforcer is running after Inquisitor, which is when i get back up walking towards the bloodletter but flaming the eldar and inquisitor in a group no space they were next to each other.
   The eldar gets hit  inquisitor doesn't. Enforcer shoots inquisitor taking him out of action, picks up the daemon sword and runs to the edge of the table but unable to leave because needing to pass a Wp check to leave (the sword doesn't wont to leave the ruins) Bloodletter runs past me seeing hes meant to be protecting the sword charges and misses both attacks on enforcer >.< 96 and a 99. Bounty hunter shoots me and misses. I flame Eldar which in turns dies.
    Enforce disengages and succesfully leaves board. Leaving me with the Bloodletter.Bounty hunter keeps shooting at me. I charged bloodletter but at this time 11:30pm everyone else wanted to go home so i couldn't kill it well try to anywayz.






Kaled

Were you playing at 54mm?  If so, what model did you use for the Bloodletter? Next time you should take pics and post them and the battle report in the 'In the Field' sub-forum.
I like to remember things my own way... Not necessarily the way they happened.

Inquisitor - Blood Bowl - Malifaux - Fairy Meat

Nemesis

yeah 54mm
It was a winged demon with a sword

greenstuff_gav

Quote from: Nemesis on January 30, 2010, 01:36:48 AM
The objective was a ruin in the centre (summoning circle) we are meant to get there and activate it with 8 successful Sg tests then we get a random roll D100 to see what we get.

what else was on the chart?
and i agree with Kaled; piiiics! ;D
i make no apologies, i warned you my ability to roll ones was infectious...

Build Your Imagination

Nemesis

01-10            Aritfact Item                 =? don't know Gm wouldn't tell us
11-19            Lesser Daemons          = Was gonna use 6 Tzeentch models small but weak
20-39            Choas Spawn               = Beast of nurgle
40-59            Nercon                          = Spyders
60-73            Reavner                        = Trygon
74-84            Choas Marine                = Daemon Prince Model
85-95            Bloodletter                    = A winged Daemon someone had
96-100          Wrathguard                   = Wrathlord model

Adlan

You seem to be playing high power games, I'd be quaking in my boots at facing most of those. So long as everyone's at the same power level, it's all good, but gracious, two power swords?

good report though, Pics would be awesome.

InquisitorHeidfeld

Who was this Bloodletter? Why were he and his Blade Brother the ones called? What is their agenda? How do they plan to advance it while able to influence the Material world?

Seriously... Daemons are characters too!
Daemons should never be Unnamed Mooks!

Tullio

Sweet Imperator ... talk about power. I wouldn't much want to try and GM a game with that. What story can you put onto it? Come to that, what was the story? Why did everyone want to summon a Daemon?

Tullio