Sword Rules

[Brother_Brimstone]

I was looking through the rulebook's armoury when something struck me (no pun intended). Unlike guns, CCW weapons appear to have no indication of whether they are one or two handed. Some are obvious (e.g. knife clearly one handed, halberd clearly two), but some are less so. The one that particularly got me was 'sword'. In common speech, the word sword is used to mean a wide variety of weapons, from rapier to katana to broadsword to saber. Some are one handed and some are two. Are the stats for the sword, as presented in the armoury for a one or two handed sword? I realise there are also stats for a falchion, but a falchion is a specific type of two handed sword, and other two handed swords, such as the katana, are entirely different in use, effect, weight etc...

This is particularly relevent to me because of Zophar. His sword was made to chaos space marine proportions, but it was made to be a single handed sword (Zophar's relatively small stature making it a necessity to wield the sword two handed). Would this be represented by the sword profile (as it was designed as a one handed sword) or a falchion (as it is large, weighty and two handed when wielded by Zophar)? IF we accept that a sword as standard can be one or two handed, are there any special rules for wielding a sword two handed?

Any comments/advice would be greatly appreciated.

[DapperAnarchist]

Under the current rules, use of a weapon one handed has no affect compared to two handed - despite the bionics rules, one hand is not half strength. However, if you wanted to house rule it like that, that could cover the distinction between single handed standard blade size swords and double handed ones.

As for different types of sword, given that there is short sword, sword, falchion, and bastard, all of which can be seen as general placeholder names for more specific types, much like the firearms, I'm suspicious of the need for wider variety in sword types. That may just be because I hear a lot "OMG the Katana can chop through TANK ARMOUR!!!11!!!!! It's sharp enough to CUT THROUGH THE EARTH" type stuff - which isn't something against you, just a prejudice of mine.

For Zophar's sword - under the various Astartes articles, there is a guideline that Astartes weaponry can be upped in size to suit them, so a Chainsword becomes an Eviscerator, a battle axe becomes a Great Axe, etc. So Falchion seems suitable.

[Brother_Brimstone]

I agree with you in that an exhaustive list of swords would be unfeasible (and as a side note i too don't subscribe to the katana = ubersword school of thinking. If i WERE doing a list of swords the main difference between katana and falchion would be that a katana is more breakable - a hit to the side on a katana can make it snap and shatter fairly easily).

The reason i was outlining different sword types was to illustrate that swords can be one or two handed in different ways to different effect. My main question was about whether there would be a strength bonus for wielding a one handed sword two handed or a penalty for wielding a two handed sword one handed (such rules just seem to intuitively make sense). I do agree that Zophar's sword should probably be a falchion from the look of it.

Thanks for the input; it's appreciated.

[Myriad]

I always assumed from the bastard sword rules that 'falchion' was using it two handed (+1d6 damage, -5% PP) as opposed to the one handed sword, but that may well simply be implied.

So long as your character is using the weapon's he bought with him it's unlikely to be an issue, but I agree it could use a more rigorous treatment.

[InquisitorHeidfeld]

This goes back to the WFRP rules.
Whereas the primary competitor product (AD&D by that time) had an expansive list of different swords, maces, axes...etc. WFRP distinguished only four distinct types; the Sword (covering Gladius, broadsword, longsword Falchion...etc), Rapier (covering the foil, Rapier...etc), Hand and a half sword (covering the claymore, Bastard sword...etc) and two-handed sword (everything else, including the flamberge).

As skills matter less in Inquisitor the Rapier...etc can be folded into the Sword group, that leaves the Two-handers and the Bastards, making the Bastard swords behave as both swords and Two-handed swords conveniently gets rid of yet another group to rule for...

[Kaled]

And if you need specific rules for a different type of sword, then the Custom Close Combat Weapon rules written by Charax and Helst are very good for creating a longer/shorter/heavier etc weapon, as well as additional rules for upgrades and unusual materiials.

[Brother_Brimstone]

I had no idea any custom CCW rules existed; i'd be eager to see them. Where can I find them? Are they from the old SG site (in which case they are presumably in Marco's download) or are they from somewhere else?

As i say, the rules i was looking for weren't an exhaustive list of swords as much as rules for using swords with more/less hands than intended (or using weapons made for a bigger smaller creature than yourself), but it looks like that will be covered in this article.

Thanks for the response.

[MarcoSkoll]

Somewhere else: http://www.freewebs.com/closecombatweapons/index.htm

[Brother_Brimstone]

Thanks very much. So Sarthuul would be a sword with a ramped up weight and presumably 1 extra point of reach?

Anyway, thanks very much for the help - i read the rulebook cover to cover the other night, and i'm just making some final tweaks etc.. to bring my warband in line with my better understanding of the rules before the Spring Clave is upon me, and Zophar's exact sword rules were one thing that was niggling me.

As usual, assistance was appreciated.

[DapperAnarchist]

I'd say that the "one handed" sword should not be able to be used like a two hander  - having used a rapier, trying to grab the handle in two hands (even the actual handle ones, not the funny little grip) is not easy. Its narrow, so you're just wrapping one hand around the other, not like holding a pistol. I think the Bastard Sword covers a lot of things - though making the breaking easier might be good.

[InquisitorHeidfeld]

A Rapier is a very different weapon to a saxon broadsword though...

A heavy bladed sword like that with simple quillions can be used effectively two-handed, the off hand overflows well onto the pommel in most cases but having two hands on the hilt makes recovering the weapon easier, moves the centre of rotation back (effectively lengthening the blade, though only by an inch or two...) and adds power to strikes; it does however limit the strokes you can comfortably make, and removes the utility of your off hand (for shield, second weapon, dragging people around by their hair while plundering...etc).

The hilt of a Bastard sword is longer, meaning that both hands can comfortably grip the hilt without encroaching on the pommel, they first became prevalent when armour technology reached such a point that a shield was redundant and a knight had difficulty penetrating his opponent's armour. Freeing the off hand and using it to provide extra power forced armour technology to advance yet further.

[DapperAnarchist]

So, if we were to expand the listed weapons, what would we have? Single handed only - Rapier and Epee and the like, "Sword" - Broadsword, maybe Katana types as well, Bastard, Falchion/Great Sword? So Fencing Sword, Short Sword, Sword, Bastard Sword, Great Sword?