Author Topic: The Count  (Read 4565 times)

Offline greenstuff_gav

  • Chief Enginseer
  • Administrator
  • Grand Lord Inquisitor
  • *****
  • Posts: 1250
  • Greenstuff Monkey
    • Build Your Imagination
The Count
« on: December 04, 2011, 03:56:02 PM »
So, Emyrd anded up encountering a mysterious figure at Ilithyia. Unbeknownst to him, The Count is the leader of a tribe of freaks and weirdos, a travelling band of "entertainers" spreading chaos under an innocent disguise.

the Count is designed to be a charming enigmatic leader, distracting people from the insidiousness and corruption of his circus.


The Count.


click for bigger


There is so very little known about the mysterious figure referred to The Count; a charming well groomed man apparently in his late to middle age, directing his troupe of performers and entertainers with panache and a light hearted manner concealing the darker side of the Circus Ambulatio Maccus.

The Count is a master of subterfuge and misdirection, the travelling band of circus misfits a perfect refuge for those touched by chaos, the outcast and the witch.
The Circus Ambulatio Maccus travels across the Imperium, stopping barely long enough for the authorities to investigate.
The circus movements are also difficult to track; a seemingly random path across various worlds.

It is unknown if The Count is touched by chaos or sponsored by the Dark Gods; he has been observed in two places at once and has an innate ability to mollify and control those of a weaker will than himself.

WS BS  S T  I  Sg Ld NV WP Sp
66 58 67 73 82 83 76 68 82 5

Skills:
Smoke and Mirrors; when deploying The Count, deploy two miniatures, but note in secret which represents The Count, the other is a decoy.

the miniatures activate one after another, each treated as separate characters with separate action pools, however neither maybe interacted with physically or psychically.
should a miniature interact with The Count physically, before effects are calculated (so after the shot is fired, but before damage is dealt as an example) the real count must be identified and the decoy is removed from the game.

Persuasive – A Persuasive character may make persuade tests using his full Leadership.


Persuasion
lifted from the Autumn Conclave, in turn lifted from POs Inq2.0 :)
Often there will be occasions when one character wishes to talk another character into doing what he wishes.  Persuasion is an opposed test with the persuading character making a Leadership test using half-Leadership.  If he is successful, the target must make a Willpower test on half-Willpower, modified by -10 for each degree of success* the persuading character had in his Leadership test.

Note that the target must be able to hear or otherwise understand the meaning of the persuading character.  Players should use common sense when determining whether a character can be persuaded to do something and the GM should arbitrate any disagreements; however, a persuaded character will not shoot at or attack the persuading character.

A persuaded character may spend Actions considering the persuading character’s offer by making a Sagacity test.  If this is passed then the character is no longer persuaded.

Note that a player may choose for a character to be persuaded without testing.

* The persuading character receives one "degree of success" for every full 10 points by which his Ld test is passed.
i make no apologies, i warned you my ability to roll ones was infectious...

Build Your Imagination

Offline Zakkeg

  • Inquisitor
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
  • Not the messiah.
Re: The Count
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2011, 06:00:30 PM »
I like him. I was never able to think of a plausible background for that mini in the context of Inquisitor, but the circus is a perfect fit.

If I might make a suggestion, Persuasion could stand to be streamlined. Why not make it an opposed roll, the victor simply being whoever scores the greater degree of success? (The persuade-ee automatically wins in the event that the persuader fails the test, even if the persuade-ee fails by as much or more.)

Thinking about it further, he rather seems like a Magus type, so a couple of Chaos-themed psychic powers might not be out of place. And I'd shift his S and T either up or down; as it stands they're too high to seem natural but too low to be frightening. Warp Strength would be a good way to touch on both points. But again, just a thought.
Only the insane have strength enough to prosper; only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane.

Offline MarcoSkoll

  • Arch Data-Archivist
  • Administrator
  • Grand Lord Inquisitor
  • *****
  • Posts: 5062
  • Time for some thrilling heroics.
Re: The Count
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2011, 06:29:29 PM »
If I might make a suggestion, Persuasion could stand to be streamlined.
Essentially, it more or less is an opposed test where if the persuader fails, the persuade fails. Degrees of success simply rounds the modifiers off.

The only difference is that it's normally taken on half stats, to stop persuade attempts dominating the game - even if both players have similar stats and thus a roughly 50/50 chance of winning an opposed Ld/Wp check, the less likely the Ld test is to pass, the less likely the persuade as a whole will work.

While I've played in games where persuasion has been plentiful and very much enjoyed them (the example from the Spring Conclave is amongst my favourites of all time), to make it any more reliable would reduce games to debates.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

Offline Zakkeg

  • Inquisitor
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
  • Not the messiah.
Re: The Count
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2011, 06:58:04 PM »
You can still cut Wp and Ld in half if you like. (Or simply apply a flat penalty to Ld, given that the aim is to make persuasion less effective.) Doing them both at the same time simply helps keep the game moving along.

Even without that, at Ld/Wp 70 the persuade attempt would only have a 35% chance of success. Divided by two, you end up with 17.5% - hardly worth the bother, given the inherent restrictions. (Of course, if the GM rules that Persuasion can convince a loyal henchman to shoot his boss in the face with one sentence (about all you can spit out in a single action), that may be a different story.)

Do note that I haven't played a game of Inquisitor in years, though, so take any advice I may give with a grain of salt.


Oh, and please forgive the overuse of parentheses. I seem to have a bit of a problem. :P


Only the insane have strength enough to prosper; only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane.

Offline Mordenkenain

  • Interrogator
  • **
  • Posts: 72
Re: The Count
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2011, 01:09:19 AM »
@ zakkeg: you probably should get that checked

I agree with zakkeg, the stats seem too high to be natural (for the general build of the model), but too low to be the work of the dark gods

Also, little query about the fluff, you state
Quote
It is unknown if The Count is touched by chaos or sponsored by the Dark Gods;
but you also say
Quote
the travelling band of circus misfits a perfect refuge for those touched by chaos,
and, more importantly, that is quite clearly a chaos star on his cloak (props on the detail work by the way), am I misreading something, or is there a contradiction here.
Bonis Nocet Quisquis Malis Pepercit

Offline MarcoSkoll

  • Arch Data-Archivist
  • Administrator
  • Grand Lord Inquisitor
  • *****
  • Posts: 5062
  • Time for some thrilling heroics.
Re: The Count
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2011, 01:17:59 AM »
Even without that, at Ld/Wp 70 the persuade attempt would only have a 35% chance of success.
35% chance of success is not an "only" matter - aside from that it can in theory affect multiple targets and has no penalties for failure, most things in game don't have anywhere near a 35% chance of achieving the desired goal.
If any shooting or close combat action had a 35% chance of putting the target out of action, the game would be impossibly brutal.

As Persuasion can (as talking) be combined with other actions freely, a 17.5% chance is quite big when you consider that you can be drawing a weapon, moving into cover and aiming as you try to persuade the Explorator that his sonic probe could activate the ancient archaeotech doomsday device he's fiddling with.
Not huge, but a lot bigger than doing nothing, and a lot less likely to result in return fire than just opening fire!

Quote
Of course, if the GM rules that Persuasion can convince a loyal henchman to shoot his boss in the face with one sentence (about all you can spit out in a single action), that may be a different story.
Like with most things, I'd suggest modifiers depending on the difficulty of the persuasion (Good/believable arguments get bonuses, but bad/implausible ones penalties), but in that case, I'd suggest that falls under the "Players should use common sense when determining whether a character can be persuaded to do something" clause.

Quote from: Mordenkenain
Also, little query about the fluff
Those aren't mutually exclusive. The circus is a good refuge for those touched by chaos, but whether he has been (and whether the Gods actually favour him) is another matter.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

Offline Zakkeg

  • Inquisitor
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
  • Not the messiah.
Re: The Count
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2011, 02:07:25 AM »
Ah. Fair point. I hadn't considered that you could be doing other things while making your attempt at persuasion. (See my note about not having played a game in years - one of the many drawbacks of living in the colonies.) I was sort of approaching it from the perspective of spending your action standing there chatting.

I still can't think of a good reason not to roll simultaneously, though.
Only the insane have strength enough to prosper; only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane.

Offline MarcoSkoll

  • Arch Data-Archivist
  • Administrator
  • Grand Lord Inquisitor
  • *****
  • Posts: 5062
  • Time for some thrilling heroics.
Re: The Count
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2011, 02:45:47 AM »
I still can't think of a good reason not to roll simultaneously, though.
You could, if you wished. However, I suspect Robey worded it that way to make it clearer that it's not just about who passes/fails better, the Ld test actually has to be passed before the Wp test becomes relevant. The difference in the time taken isn't that big a deal.

...anyway, I think that's been said and done, so we return you to your regularly scheduled thread.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

Offline InquisitorHeidfeld

  • Inquisitor
  • ***
  • Posts: 225
Re: The Count
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2011, 01:33:09 PM »
I was never able to think of a plausible background for that mini in the context of Inquisitor...
He's an ideal nobleman, the fourth son of one of the cousins of a Planetary Governor perhaps, not to mention Rogue Trader...etc.
The fashions of the 41st Millenium tend to veer towards the Militaristic or the Monastic so he fits in rather well I'd have thought.

Offline Zakkeg

  • Inquisitor
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
  • Not the messiah.
Re: The Count
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2011, 08:12:03 PM »
It's the cape, I reckon - despite 40k often being described as having a bit of a steampunk feel, I've always felt that Imperial fashion was generally far more Georgian than Victorian. But for a ringmaster type, Victorian seems bang on, cape and all.


I have to ask, did you honestly believe "Rogue Trader" never occurred to me? I'd certainly hope that nobody thinks me that unimaginative...



Only the insane have strength enough to prosper; only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane.

Offline MarcoSkoll

  • Arch Data-Archivist
  • Administrator
  • Grand Lord Inquisitor
  • *****
  • Posts: 5062
  • Time for some thrilling heroics.
Re: The Count
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2011, 08:25:23 PM »
I have to ask, did you honestly believe "Rogue Trader" never occurred to me?
If you say that you couldn't think of anything, then you can hardly blame anyone for taking it, regardless of how (un)imaginative we might believe you to be or how obvious the answer might appear, that no answer occurred to you.

The thing is, he can be a plausible Rogue Trader (particularly with a little conversion - it would be very optimistic to expect a model from another range to be naturally perfect for the GrimDark) - that it isn't a choice you would have made is another matter.
S.Sgt Silva Birgen: "Good evening, we're here from the Adeptus Defenestratus."
Captain L. Rollin: "Nonsense. Never heard of it."
Birgen: "Pick a window. I'll demonstrate".

GW's =I= articles

Offline Adlan

  • Inquisitor Lord
  • ****
  • Posts: 460
Re: The Count
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2011, 10:02:25 PM »
Not to mention my own conversion of the figure: http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1159.0


The Count is brilliant, I love the use of the two figures, it's really nice.

Offline Zakkeg

  • Inquisitor
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
  • Not the messiah.
Re: The Count
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2011, 12:24:40 AM »
I have to ask, did you honestly believe "Rogue Trader" never occurred to me?
If you say that you couldn't think of anything, then you can hardly blame anyone for taking it, regardless of how (un)imaginative we might believe you to be or how obvious the answer might appear, that no answer occurred to you.

The thing is, he can be a plausible Rogue Trader (particularly with a little conversion - it would be very optimistic to expect a model from another range to be naturally perfect for the GrimDark) - that it isn't a choice you would have made is another matter.

Sorry. As we all know, text doesn't convey tone well; the quoted segment probably should have been accompanied by one of these -> ;)

(As a further aside, this forum has a very limited selection of smileys. Though I suppose it does help prevent their over-proliferation.)

What I meant was that I couldn't think of any use for the mini that seemed to me to adequately explain the outfit. A rogue trader could conceivably dress up like Kermit the frog if he felt like it, but that wouldn't make him seem any less out of place. (Yes, I'm using reductio ad absurdum as a rhetorical device. Let's please not get bogged down in a debate about logic. What I'm saying here is that it's a matter of degrees, and everyone draws the line in a slightly different place. For me, this mini generally falls slightly to the "not usable" side of it, and here a way has been found to push him into "usable.")

If we can't agree on whether or not rogue traders might plausibly look like Dracula, however, I think we can at least agree that this thread has been derailed quite enough. So if we might backtrack a bit:

It strikes me that this is a character with very few options. As presented, he's an excellent speaker and... that's about it. He hasn't even got any equipment. Assuming his double isn't a factor (which it's unlikely to be for long once a fight breaks out), he's rather up a creek if, say, an arco-flagellant sets its sights on him. This may be deliberate, of course, but I think it bears discussion.



Only the insane have strength enough to prosper; only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane.

Offline Inquisitor Octavian Lars

  • Inquisitor Lord
  • ****
  • Posts: 363
  • rising star of the ordo malleus
    • Velterax III Chronicles
Re: The Count
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2011, 05:09:30 PM »
I remember in one of the ragnar books, the inquisitors use their capes as weapons with inbuilt weights and blades (I think)
Velterax III
All my wargaming under one address
http://velterax3chronicles.blogspot.com/

http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1566.0
Insertion Zone. Also on the Velterax III Chronicles.

Always looking for comments

Offline Kaled

  • Illuminatus Maximus
  • Grand Lord Inquisitor
  • *****
  • Posts: 2132
  • Fabricator-General
Re: The Count
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2011, 08:06:26 PM »
It strikes me that this is a character with very few options. As presented, he's an excellent speaker and... that's about it. He hasn't even got any equipment.
Having used a Tau Water Caste, a similar character who's good at talking and not much else, I have to say that it's not really a problem. He will be in trouble if he comes across something he can't reason with, such as an arco-flagellant (in which case he should probably just run and get another member of the warband to deal with it), but most characters can be persuaded to at least listen and not just start shooting (at least, not straight away) - and if he can keep talking for long enough, then he might be able to persuade them that it would be in their interest to come to some sort of 'arrangement'.  That said, at the Autumn Conclave my Water Caste was okay at the not getting shot part, and managed to keep people talking for quite some time, but he didn't actually manage to persuade anyone completely round to his way of thinking...
I like to remember things my own way... Not necessarily the way they happened.

Inquisitor - Blood Bowl - Malifaux - Fairy Meat