Witch Hunter Snatch squad

[Ferran]

Models for these characters found here http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=428.0

PROFILE

George Bennet - Inquisitorial Stormtrooper

WS  BS    S     T     I    WP  SG   NV   LD
68   75   55   60   62   68   68   70   68

Weapons & Armour
Flak armour (chest, abdomen, groin)
Open helm
Laspistol - Fury pattern [1 magazine]
Automatic combat shotgun [24 shells]
Auxiliary grenade launcher (1 frag grenade)
Knife
2 Smoke grenades

Equipment
Medikit

Skills
Medic
Life ward - The character becomes subject to the rules for Nerves of Steel whenever he attempts to reach a friendly character for the purposes of medical treatment.



-A medic, useful for treating injured targets as well as friendly characters
-Upped his Ws a bit (not that he will be engaging anything in melee, but as a stormtrooper I don't see his Ws being 60, which it was before).
-Lowered his Nv and replaced Nerves of Steel with Life ward. Less powerful and more characterful than it was before.
-Dropped Sg by 2pts, I think Sg 68 is reasonable for a stormtrooper medic (guard vet is 60, Sgt. Stone is 61)
-Removed Executioner shells (from Damian Bloodhound rules)
-Couldn't find a suitable shotgun in DH/Inq handbook, but I chose fury pattern for his laspistol. Any stats for these weapons greatly appreciated.

-----------------------------

PROFILE

Arthur Monroe - Inquisitorial Stormtrooper

WS  BS    S     T     I    WP  SG   NV   LD
72   70   58   60   60   60   62   70   70

Weapons & Armour
Flak armour (chest, abdomen, groin)
Closed helm
Laspistol - Fury pattern [1 magazine]
Autogun - Archer mk IV (Drum magazine, Shot selector) [2 drums, each contains X autogun bullets and 12 manstoppers]
Shock maul
1 Smoke grenade
1 Frag grenade
1 choke grenade

Equipment
Cyber Mastiff
Gas mask
Laser sight
Motion tracker
Manacles - Targets reduce their toughness by 10 when rolling against it for the purposes of Subdue tests
Null collar - A heavy metal collar that can be clamped around the neck of a subdued target (1 action point), interfering with normal brain activity and causing the target to become highly suggestible. Any target with a null collar reduces it's Wp and Sg by 30%. Removing a null collar costs 1 action point and requires a successful Sg roll. A character with a collar attached must also make a successful Wp roll.

Skills
Ambidextrous
Subdue



-This guy is obviously the main hunter of the group. He would move ahead to engage, supported by George Bennett. As with Bennett, profile based on Guard veteran.
-I liked the sound of the Hax Orthlack Creed-9 Autogun for him, but it's description says that it isn't much larger than an autopistol, so I went with the Archer. Any suggestions for weapon stats greatly appreciated.
-Are there any rules for Choke grenades?
-I can't remember the rules for subdue. Is a subdued character taken out of the game entirely? If so the Null collar is kind of redundant. If not it acts as an anti-psyker muzzle, and also effective against non-psykers. Reduced Sg and Wp means the character with the collar attached will be unlikey to remove it himself. Might drop either this equipment or the manacles. I think this is the more characterful choice for a witch-hunter, though it might be a bit more OP than the manacles.

[MarcoSkoll]

Somewhat generous WS, BS and Sg stats aside, the actual statlines seem pretty fair.

WS & BS - I'd probably lose about 10 points between them were it my characters.
Sg - I'd call Sg 50 an average Sg for someone with good schooling and normal reasoning ability. Sg 60 is getting on the side of pretty smart, so values of 62 and 68 for these guys makes them on the side of perhaps a little smarter than is perhaps justifiable.

Bear in mind, a low Sg does not make a character thick. It just means they're not necessarily the type who would excel at the kind of things Sg tests tend to cover. (Although I tend to have a collection of notes on areas of knowledge where the character is good or bad, which tend to make it into in-game bonuses when said area comes up.)

You should really compare against the guidelines in the front of the rulebook, not the over-inflated example statlines in the back.

Automatic combat shotgun (executioner shells, 24)

Um, ouch?

Autogun - Archer mk IV (Drum magazine, Shot selector) [2 drums, each contains X autogun bullets and 12 manstoppers]

Again, nasty - and I don't see the dual drums on the model.

-I liked the sound of the Hax Orthlack Creed-9 Autogun for him, but it's description says that it isn't much larger than an autopistol, so I went with the Archer.

You know, there are a whole heap of different makes out there, far more than GW could ever hope to document. You shouldn't feel compelled to just stick with "canon" weapon patterns.

One of my Inquisitors has a Cassett Pattern 62 revolver in 9mm Magnum - there is absolutely no back-up for the name in canon, but no-one is going to challenge me on the name, because it sounds both cool and feasible.

Any suggestions for weapon stats greatly appreciated.

You may want to check out my "Revised Inquisitor Armoury" thread, which documents my attempts to breathe more life into the rather small LRB armoury.

It also attempts to make weapon performance a little more realistic, and make it more worth the trouble of taking rifles.

Are there any rules for Choke grenades?

Yes. Gas grenades with the Choke toxin.

I can't remember the rules for subdue. Is a subdued character taken out of the game entirely?

No.

Subdue: This character is adept at stunning his foes and taking them in alive. This is obviously a very useful skill for a member of an Inquisitor warrior band, for knowledge is power and a captured foe is far more valuable than a dead one.

Subdue is a special action that can be used by the character when in close combat (not at arm's length, even if armed with a reach 4 or greater weapon). The character attacks as normal. If he hits his foe, the blow automatically lands on the head location (no need to roll). Regardless of the weapon used, the attack only does D6 damage. As he has been hit in the head, the enemy character will have to pass a Toughness test or be stunned. If a character with this skill manages to subdue an enemy who is already stunned, the target is knocked unconscious. However, the subdued character counts as having the True Grit skill, and so may attempt to recover consciousness (it's a good idea to have someone keep an eye on subdued enemies to avoid nasty surprises!).

~~~~~

Also, I'd like to actually see some background for these two. How did they get where they are?

[Kaled]

The Subdue skill was altered in one of the FAQs (2004 Annual IIRC) - the FAQ entry reads;

Subdue: is a special action that can be used by the character when in close combat (not at arm's length, even if armed with a reach 4 or greater weapon). The character attacks as normal. If he hits his foe, the blow automatically lands on the head location (no need to roll). Regardless of the weapon used, the attack does no damage. As he has been hit in the head, the enemy character will have to pass a Toughness test or be stunned. If a character with this skill manages to subdue an enemy who is already stunned, the target is knocked unconscious. However, the subdued character counts as having the True Grit skill, and so may attempt to recover consciousness (it's a good idea to have someone keep an eye on subdued enemies to avoid nasty surprises!).

This ability now does no damage to the victim and is just a restraining technique as was its original intention.

[Ferran]

Thank you for the comments Marco, I will try to address them as best I can.

Somewhat generous WS, BS and Sg stats aside, the actual statlines seem pretty fair.

WS & BS - I'd probably lose about 10 points between them were it my characters.
Sg - I'd call Sg 50 an average Sg for someone with good schooling and normal reasoning ability. Sg 60 is getting on the side of pretty smart, so values of 62 and 68 for these guys makes them on the side of perhaps a little smarter than is perhaps justifiable.

Bear in mind, a low Sg does not make a character thick. It just means they're not necessarily the type who would excel at the kind of things Sg tests tend to cover. (Although I tend to have a collection of notes on areas of knowledge where the character is good or bad, which tend to make it into in-game bonuses when said area comes up.)

You should really compare against the guidelines in the front of the rulebook, not the over-inflated example statlines in the back.

I see where you are coming from, but for the sake of simplicity I like to base my characters on the samples provided in the back of the book. I much prefer to have a full stat line which i can then modify up or down depending on the character, and way they'll be balanced against any pre-mades that will probably be seen on the table, though I'm not sure how often people use these characters.

Automatic combat shotgun (executioner shells, 24)

Um, ouch?

Yes I realise that these shells seem quite powerful, wouldn't be averse to down-grading to standard shells.

Autogun - Archer mk IV (Drum magazine, Shot selector) [2 drums, each contains X autogun bullets and 12 manstoppers]

Again, nasty - and I don't see the dual drums on the model.

I don't get this comment. It's just a basic weapon with an ammunition upgrade. Am I to take it that you dissapprove of anything other than standard shot/auto/las on anything below Acolyte level? Seems rather boring to me. Yes there's no second drum shown on the model, I have sprues with the grenade launcher reloads but I couldn't find them at the time of building the model, I'll probably not add them now as I prefer to pin stuff like this, and at the bare minimum I'd have to scrape paint to glue onto bare metal and this is something that i really cbf to go through. I wouldn't argue with anyone that wanted to play wyswyg (I'd inspect their models thorroughly ofc if they wanted to play this), I hear that ammo depletion is rare in normal games and he always has his backup pistol. I should probably note at this point that neither of these models has a holstered pistol visually represented on the model either

-I liked the sound of the Hax Orthlack Creed-9 Autogun for him, but it's description says that it isn't much larger than an autopistol, so I went with the Archer.

You know, there are a whole heap of different makes out there, far more than GW could ever hope to document. You shouldn't feel compelled to just stick with "canon" weapon patterns.

One of my Inquisitors has a Cassett Pattern 62 revolver in 9mm Magnum - there is absolutely no back-up for the name in canon, but no-one is going to challenge me on the name, because it sounds both cool and feasible.

Can't see the point of this tbh, the weapon names are for flavour and not for any in-game advantage, so having said this one name is as good as another.

Any suggestions for weapon stats greatly appreciated.

You may want to check out my "Revised Inquisitor Armoury" thread, which documents my attempts to breathe more life into the rather small LRB armoury.

It also attempts to make weapon performance a little more realistic, and make it more worth the trouble of taking rifles.

Yes I believe that I tried to download this from the updated armoury thread w/o success (couldn't read it) do I need a specific program to read this file?

Are there any rules for Choke grenades?

Yes. Gas grenades with the Choke toxin.

I can't remember the rules for subdue. Is a subdued character taken out of the game entirely?

No.

Subdue: This character is adept at stunning his foes and taking them in alive. This is obviously a very useful skill for a member of an Inquisitor warrior band, for knowledge is power and a captured foe is far more valuable than a dead one.

Subdue is a special action that can be used by the character when in close combat (not at arm's length, even if armed with a reach 4 or greater weapon). The character attacks as normal. If he hits his foe, the blow automatically lands on the head location (no need to roll). Regardless of the weapon used, the attack only does D6 damage. As he has been hit in the head, the enemy character will have to pass a Toughness test or be stunned. If a character with this skill manages to subdue an enemy who is already stunned, the target is knocked unconscious. However, the subdued character counts as having the True Grit skill, and so may attempt to recover consciousness (it's a good idea to have someone keep an eye on subdued enemies to avoid nasty surprises!).

~~~~~

Also, I'd like to actually see some background for these two. How did they get where they are?

[/quote]

Biographies will follow, I'll probably wait until all the miniatures are complete before I write any back stories for them, hopefully I can weave them together a bit too.

Again ty for the comments, much appreciated

[Kaled]

I see where you are coming from, but for the sake of simplicity I like to base my characters on the samples provided in the back of the book. I much prefer to have a full stat line which i can then modify up or down depending on the character, and way they'll be balanced against any pre-mades that will probably be seen on the table, though I'm not sure how often people use these characters.

It's very rare that anyone uses the sample characters from the back of the rulebook - almost everyone wants to make their own characters.  Most people, on this forum at least, use the descriptions of the stats at the start of the rulebook as the basis for their characters.  You don't have to, but don't be surprised if people think your characters are 'over-powered'.  The thread below might be of use to you;
http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=162.0

Am I to take it that you dissapprove of anything other than standard shot/auto/las on anything below Acolyte level?

I don't see that the 'level' of the character has anything to do with what ammo they carry - and I don't think Marco does either, it's just a 'nasty' weapon...

Can't see the point of this tbh, the weapon names are for flavour and not for any in-game advantage, so having said this one name is as good as another.

But Inquisitor is a narrative game, so the name of a character's weapon may well be very important although not necessarily for in-game reasons...

[Ferran]

I see where you are coming from, but for the sake of simplicity I like to base my characters on the samples provided in the back of the book. I much prefer to have a full stat line which i can then modify up or down depending on the character, and way they'll be balanced against any pre-mades that will probably be seen on the table, though I'm not sure how often people use these characters.

It's very rare that anyone uses the sample characters from the back of the rulebook - almost everyone wants to make their own characters.  Most people, on this forum at least, use the descriptions of the stats at the start of the rulebook as the basis for their characters.  You don't have to, but don't be surprised if people think your characters are 'over-powered'.  The thread below might be of use to you;
http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=162.0

Am I to take it that you dissapprove of anything other than standard shot/auto/las on anything below Acolyte level?

I don't see that the 'level' of the character has anything to do with what ammo they carry - and I don't think Marco does either, it's just a 'nasty' weapon...

Can't see the point of this tbh, the weapon names are for flavour and not for any in-game advantage, so having said this one name is as good as another.

But Inquisitor is a narrative game, so the name of a character's weapon may well be very important although not necessarily for in-game reasons...

Would you be displeased to game against a character with manstopper bullets Kaled? Or for that matter anything considered 'nasty'? I'm just trying to figure out if thiese comments on the manstopper shells are dissapproving of them or not.

In this case I'd have to say that the gun model favoured by Arthur Monroe isn't important in the narrative sense, other than sigifying that he has access to equipment of a higher quality than an average desparado or gang-fighter, which I think is appropriate. Therefore inventing my own name and flavour text for his weapon seems a bit redundant to me when I can easily pick up some good stuff from existing fluff. The chainsword carried by my Inquisitor is another matter, but for characters like Munroe I am satisfied using DH fluff.

[Kaled]

I wouldn't necessarily be unhappy facing manstopper shells - it really depends whether they're appropriate for the characters. Are your guys the sort of people who'd prefer inaccurate weapons with good stopping power?

As for the weapon names - are your characters based in or around the Calixian sector?  If so, the names are fine. If not, then you should probably make up some of your own.

[MarcoSkoll]

The Subdue skill was altered in one of the FAQs (2004 Annual IIRC) - the FAQ entry reads;

Whoops, forgot to check which version I was posting.

~~~~~

Points in order:

- The pre-made characters aren't used all that often, and certainly not by people you'll find on this forum.

- Just because I've said something is "nasty" doesn't mean it can't be used. But mostly, it does mean that I'd like to see it justified.

While Executioner shells are powerful, I'm more interested in knowing why he fires rare projectiles off in an automatic shotgun. In my opinion, projectiles like that are more of a single loaded projectile that's used for tough shots - certainly not something to use every shot!

- Similar note to the above - justification needed. Either way, don't take it that I disapprove of non-standard ammunition. I think anyone who's read the Revised Armoury can tell you that I love the idea - I've got entire pages dedicated to the stuff (although it's been somewhat rebalanced).

I should note that I don't really approve of single magazine shot selectors though - I prefer to see them feeding from multiple magazines.

Now, on the note of WYSIWYG... If you haven't anywhere to keep the drum magazines or pistol on the model, then it would be entirely reasonable for the GM to tell you that you were without those things.
I try to keep my characters with pouches that are at least feasibly large enough to keep any spare ammunition, equipment or trinkets in. If I don't think they could carry that much stuff in those pouches (give or take a little leeway), then I have to add more pouches, or simply cut back on the equipment.

There are a few things I will accept not being on the model - Inquisitor Rhodes from my collection has a compact stubber that's designed to used as a concealed weapon. Hence, it's logical that it isn't visible on her model.

- Weapon names are for flavour, yes. Which is why I say that you needn't fuss around with using canon names.
To double back to the Cassett Pattern 62 - sure, the name means sod-all on the table. But equally, you might as well argue that you don't need to name the characters because it's not all that important on the table.

In the end, I like to attach little pieces of background to not only my characters, but their equipment. Where was it from, why do they have it rather than something else, etc...?

- No, the RIA is simply a word document. Anything that'll open DOC files will suffice.

- Hmm. I prefer to at least have some basics of the background before I start writing profiles.

[Inquisitor Cade]

First of all I cant see any of the pics on the modeling thread. Is it just me (and my PC) or can you fix it?

Sometimes wysiwyg has to suffer because (unless you are Kaled) you won't have alternate models for characters acting incogneto, so sometimes it is necessary to say "he isn't wearing that armour or carrying that gun" etc, though normaly any such withdrawal from wysiwyg will be a downgrade of kit and not an upgrade. If, however the standard kit is not represented reasonably by the standard model, I'd say that one of the two needs changing.

My comments on the stats are basically repeats of what has been said, Bs/Ws/Sg are generally too high, and the LRB archetypes are generally misleading.

I think the life ward ability is excellent.

On the drums, I initialy assumed that there were two feeding the gun at once by now see that you probably meant that he has a reload, would you clear that up for me. Also while shot selectors generaly feed from seperate mags (I'd reccomend a 4 shot tubular mag for the manstoppers with reload (2) and that he carry's them loose), one that selects seperate ammo from the same mag is feasable, though I'd have thought it would limit the drum's capacity. I'd say 38 standard rounds per drum with 12 manstoppers or else 60 rounds for a standard drum that cannot select specific rounds.

For the laspistols (I'm guessing by the name that Fury pattern is a high power varient, but if it is a canon pattern this may be off) I'd give it:
Single/semi(2/3). Range A. Dam 2D6+2. Shots 20. Enc 18. with a +3 Dam for double ammo consumption mode. I would strongly endorse pistols in holsters on the models though.

I don't think the rules you've given for manacles are appropriate. I'd leave them for the GM to decide how they work. Obviously they will allow you to bind an unconcious or cooperative character and, maybe with a successful Ws test, stunned and overpowered characters.

[Ferran]

Hi Cade, thanks for the comments!

Pics can be seen in this thread (edit http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236516 ), along with a link to another thread w/o any rules/fluff etc. Also here you will find additional models in the form of a cyber hound and a wip Commissar, completed since the pic was taken so new pic incoming shortly. Also made a profile for the Commissar, again based on the =][= sample characters.

When I write [1 magazine] this means reload, but that word suggests to me that it is an additional magazine, which is not the case with these characters, so basically they all have 1 magazine per weapon w/o any reloads.

The fury laspistol is a name I picked up from the Inquisitor's Handbook, really just to represent the fact that these characters are armed to a military standard as opposed to the civilian grade weaponry that many characters undoubtably use. Thanks for the weapon profile suggestions, I'll use them.

I dropped the manacles from Arthur Monroe, I don't generally like cluttered character sheets and these weren't really necessary.

Also I've started painting 2 more troopers! I went a bit overboard on this retinue but I enjoyed painting and building them so thought wtf may as well.