Exotic Ability for C&C

[Tyrant]

A step up from Medic - Surgeon / Field Surgeon

The character has studied and practised medicine.
This can be specialised to a species for an additional boost of +1 of the relevant die (d3, d6 or d10)

Good intentions (friends) Nv test to perform one of the following (1 action)

Stop bleeding in D3 locations
Reduce injury total by 1 D6+4
Reduce injury by one degree unless crippled.

Bad Intentions (Foe - has to be unconscience or incapacitated (tied up))
Nv test not required as who cares whether you make a mistake.
(1 action to perform one of the following)

collect trophy - Scalp opponent?
Paralise one limb for D10 turns
Increase bleeding in D3 locations
Remove organ?

[MarcoSkoll]

Not sure about the bad intentions side of it.

collect trophy - Scalp opponent?

Don't see that any particular medical knowledge is needed for butchery. However, one action seems impossibly fast, even for a trained surgeon.

Paralise one limb for D10 turns

He's tied up or unconscious. This doesn't seem like it would compound the inconvenience much.

Increase bleeding in D3 locations

Again, tied up or unconscious. Injuring them is not a particular issue, as helpless characters are always hit, the  location is attacker's choice and it does an automatic critical.

Remove organ?

Again, helpless. Also, much more time consuming than a single action if you're trying to remove organs without killing the person (not that there's a huge choice of things to remove). And if you're not trying to avoid killing them, it doesn't need special rules beyond normal damage.

Maybe as something to bring up in a campaign as a form of torture, but not really an on-table thing.

[Brother_Brimstone]

I agree with Marco on this one; the 'Dark side of surgery' powers strike me as a bit unnecessary and excessive. Beyond all the perfectly legitimate gameplay concerns Marco raises, I'd also like to add some fluff worries.

In Inquisitor, we tend to say that it's no one's choice but the character's player as to whether the character dies or not, but things like organ removal and scalping... well, even in the 40k verse, it seems a bit difficult to believe a character walking around with the same model representing them, as their scalp hangs from another character's belt. Similarly, I realise we're talking about a game where characters are sometimes even shot in the head at point blank with a bolt gun (example relevant; it happened to Zophar at The Succession), but we can often explain it away by saying 'it looked a lot worse than it was' or 'the internal damage wasn't too bad'. When we actually say, in a game, 'his heart has just been cut out and drop kicked off the table', it's kind of hard to say 'it's not as bad as it looks!' (the Holy Grail Black Knight comes to mind...).

I mean, I realise that technically it -can- be justified (one of my characters once literally decapitated one of Kaled's admech warband, and he wrote a little fluff piece about how they used their tech to keep the brain alive and reattach the head), in the same way you technically -could- implement it into the rules, but as with Marco's complaint about its rules consequence, what's the point? It seems a bit unneccessary to me.

If my character was out of action, and then my opponent started to detail how he's scalping him, and taking his heart etc.. I'd just be a bit pissed off. It's doesn't really add anything to the game (-the character is already OOA, he won't be causing my opponent any more trouble), and it makes the fluff writing on my behalf just that little bit less believable.

Still, that's just my opinion, and in no way do i want to present it as being a single, authoritative viewpoint, but to me, it just seems a level of control over the opponent's character which crosses a certain line. Still, if you have your heart set on it, and your opponents consent to it, then there's nothing to stop you going for it.

[MarcoSkoll]

In Inquisitor, we tend to say that it's no one's choice but the character's player as to whether the character dies or not

Which was mostly why at the end of the Autumn Conclave I had the satellite death laser do the whole "carving menacingly towards the target and conveniently leaving enough time to escape" thing. Given that it was the single most powerful weapon short of Exterminatus I can recall ever having had in a game of Inquisitor, it might have been a bit tricky for anyone to explain how they'd survived a direct hit*!

But yes, I think I agree here. This is the kind of thing that really needs the buy-in of the other player, at least if you're not planning on making it a throw-away non-canon game.

*It should probably worry me that I have two models which actually could.

[Tyrant]

Yeah i see.

1)Any thoughts on having a step up from Medic?

2) For the purposes a character that is potentially an eldar of the dark persusion,
(I had no intention of killing other peoples charcaters) any thoughts on a way that the skill could be used for "evil"

[Draco Ferox]

And now an important point about your last post Tyrant:
In this war of shadows, how do you define 'evil'?

But other than that, for a step-up from a medic, I'd give him a better bonus when attempting to heal characters.

In terms of actual using medical knowledge for harm rather than good, it would only really be of use in campaigns, where the character could use his skills to impose a negative modifier to the willpower of the 'interviewee' during an interrogation.

A more interesting idea would be the medic's reaction if he was ordered to save a captured enemy from death in order that they might be taken alive, especially if he has some sort of enmity for the dying character, due to fluff or events earlier in the campaign.

Also, if the character has an all-consuming need to inflict pain, such as a Dark Eldar, then it might be a part of their rules that the character might, if deprived of pain for long enough, willing to turn on their own...

[Tyrant]

And now an important point about your last post Tyrant:
In this war of shadows, how do you define 'evil'?

Well I'd like to think the person with the skill (not DE) having trained in medicine would see it as their duty to save any life regardless of species etc. Thus making them probably one of the few true good guys, not just ones that believed they were good.


But other than that, for a step-up from a medic, I'd give him a better bonus when attempting to heal characters.

In terms of actual using medical knowledge for harm rather than good, it would only really be of use in campaigns, where the character could use his skills to impose a negative modifier to the willpower of the 'interviewee' during an interrogation.

A more interesting idea would be the medic's reaction if he was ordered to save a captured enemy from death in order that they might be taken alive, especially if he has some sort of enmity for the dying character, due to fluff or events earlier in the campaign.

Also, if the character has an all-consuming need to inflict pain, such as a Dark Eldar, then it might be a part of their rules that the character might, if deprived of pain for long enough, willing to turn on their own...

Im actually thinking having written the yellow bit that in exchange for better healing he must attend to the wounds of the enermy unless his SG makes him realise that the unconscience Daemon would tear his head off regardless.

[MarcoSkoll]

Well I'd like to think the person with the skill (not DE) having trained in medicine would see it as their duty to save any life regardless of species etc. Thus making them probably one of the few true good guys, not just ones that believed they were good.

Sounds like a Lawful Stupid version of the Hippocratic oath.

The Grim Dark universe is not a pleasant place, and any "good guys" as such will usually get cured of their morals either getting killed by said gribbly nasty or getting executed for heresy.

Save the life of an Eldar? Heresy. Blam.
Save the life of a Tyranid? Om nom nom nom.
Save the life of a Traitor? Extra Heresy. Double Blam.

[InquisitorHeidfeld]

For a start...

Scalping involves making a full circular cut, not usually a clean one as the subject's hair tends to ubstruct the knife edge... It's not something which requires particular skill - and due to the skull being the next thing in line it's not something one can get too wrong either...
Not that there's a reason scalps were the prefered method of counting the number of Native Americans a European killed (Yes, scalping was introduced to America by the Europeans and only later adopted by the Native Americans themselves).


To the point of the question.
Medical training isn't particularly going to help - in most instances a field Medic is actually going to be better at dealing with battlefield injuries because that's what he does.
Surgery is generally carried out behind the lines and while it might seem fast and dirty it's still a prolongued event not suited to the middle of a game of Inquisitor.

Personally I would keep medical training out of the dice rolls and in the role-playing side, tyranid autopsies in the quiet between storylines...etc.

Well I'd like to think the person with the skill (not DE) having trained in medicine would see it as their duty to save any life regardless of species etc. Thus making them probably one of the few true good guys, not just ones that believed they were good.

Not in 40k...
Bear in mind that what you're describing is akin to a doctor trying to treat a bug in Starship Troopers... only wierder.
I would suspect that any oath sworn by medical practitioners in the 40k 'verse doesn't even include a need to treat abhumans, let alone Xenos.

[Inquisitor Octavian Lars]

I think in ravenor (or some other series), there is a doc who wants to treat the fallen, heretic of puritain (can't recall name)


Bing!, it was rorden in gaunts ghosts not wishing to leave rival guard (bluebloods) to die during an imperial retreat. (probably was a similar character in ravenor, but can't recall name)

[biggreengribbly]

I think in ravenor (or some other series), there is a doc who wants to treat the fallen, heretic of puritain (can't recall name)


Bing!, it was rorden in gaunts ghosts not wishing to leave rival guard (bluebloods) to die during an imperial retreat. (probably was a similar character in ravenor, but can't recall name)

Abandoned member of characteristically unpleasant allied regiment =/= hateful murderous worshipper of reasonless hateful thirsting gods ... or Aliens.

I'm pretty certain 40k is the perfect place for a Hypocritic oath, rather than a Hippocratic one 

[Holiad]

Refusing to abandon your own wounded is a distinct morale from feeling obliged to treat your enemies, espescially when those enemies are the sort of chaos worshipers and inimically hostile aliens common on the inquisitor table, and even that lesser idealism feels out of place in the 40k setting, where planets can be expendable.

Regarding the dark eldar character, it's hard to think of what he could do to an enemy that a trained fighter couldn't do pretty much as well, other than killing them a lot slower and more painfully. However, he might be inclined to focus his treatment of an injured 'friend' more on getting them up and useful, caring very little whether it ends up hurting them further in the long term.

[Tyrant]

I have dropped this now.
I agree that in 40K there isn't a place for such an ability that "Medic" doesn't cover already.
Its a nice idea but in practice it doesn't translate.
Thanks for the comments.

Nathan.

[Stormgrad]

I Disagree there are officio Medicae staff highly trained physicians who perhaps are more vital in keeping your team alive, and why not employ a surgeon as a torturer surely someone with a working knowledge of anatomy would be perfect in such a role.


Master Chirugeon ( A Master Chirugeon like Tobias can add 25% to a toughness test for recovery rolls and can also heal an extra injury level to a total of 3 )

that is what i came up with also this rare piece of surgical equipment usually employed as a Bionic

Apothecarium ( anyone tobias is treating  can recover D3+2 from there Injury total instead of the Normal D3 ), the apothecarium includes a Digital Scalpel and a Power field generator which can be modulated to work as a Cardio Shock Unit (10% chance of Reviving a Dead Character) or as a Shock Gauntlet it takes an action to switch between modes

Name                       Reach          Damage           Parry Penalty           Special   
Shock Gauntlet         0                 Unarmed +4          -30%                 Shocking

[InquisitorHeidfeld]

Highly trained physicians do many things which a medic can't do it's true - but they invariably don't do so in the midst of a game. In the hubbub and chaos of a firefight the medic and the highly trained physic do exactly the same thing - basic triage.
As I suggested above there's actually a good chance that the field medic will do better through dint of experience in the given situation.

With regards to other applications...
If you're the sort of person who can employ people then surely the best person to hire to be your torturer would be... A torturer?
Knowing where organs are is only of marginal use to that career after all, much more important are understandings such as where mutilation becomes counter-productive.

And after all, the Imperium can't have you giving one person sixteen different jobs, it's bad for the economy