Untouchables

[Shroud]

Well this is my first post on the Conclave, im usualy just fine with reading what people have to say but in my opinion there is a lack of accurate represtation of untouchables in game so iv decided to throw my ideas about it out there

Sigma to Tau level: these individuals can't perceive warp phenomena, fluctuations and build up. Characters with this level of Psychic negativity should mostly be represented by the way they act in game, with a small negative modifier (10-15%) for psychic powers targeted at Tau level characters.

Upsilon, Phi, Chi and Psi levels: these individuals have varying immunity to Psychic powers. In addition to not being able to perceive warp fluctuations they inflict a negative modifier to Psychic powers targeted at them (20, 30, 40, 50% respectively)

Omega level: these individuals are also referred to as Pariahs and are Psychic negatives. They are immune to psychic powers targeted at them in addition of projecting an aura of immunity extending up to five yards which prevents any characters within that area being affected by psychic powers or being detected by psychic means. Any character that is within this aura must pass a willpower test or move as fast as possible away from the Pariah. Daemons and Psykers have a minus 20 modifier to this test.

thoughts and comments are all welcome.

[Dwi]

I would like to note thet there is a rule for pariahs allready:

PARIAH:
The character has little to no presence in the Immaterium. For that reason no psychic powers
maybe used directly against him. Also, any Psychic power used or directed at anyone or thing
within 10 yards of the Pariah suffers a -50% difficulty modifier in addition to any other
modifiers. Daemons and Creatures of the warp cannot see a Pariah but can be aware of his
actions ie hear his weapon firing, moving an object etc. To spot a Pariah a Daemonic entity
must pass a -40% Initiative test. If the Pariah Character has been making noise as explained
above then the modifier is -20%. Additional mods can be made for shooting a Pariah if the GM
desires. -Stg. Black pdf

However blanks are a driffrent breed and are slightly weaker than pariahs. I would start their if you want to work with untuchabuls and their specail ruels.

[Shroud]

I am aware of those rules; I for one however don't feel they are an accurate representation of a Pariah. Also from my understanding "blanks" is an overall term for someone who is on the negative end of the Imperial assignment scale with the Pariahs being the most psychicly negative a human can be.

[MarcoSkoll]

While I tend to stick to those rough definitions, the terms blank, blunt, untouchable and pariah are highly interchangeable.
In any case, Pariah is regularly used to refer to individuals less psy-negative than Omega-Minus.

~~~~~

I haven't the time to do a full run down now, but personally, for a "classic" (but not "OMG, Culexus") psy-negative, I've recommend a slight tweak of the official rules (one where the psychic penalty drops by -5% for each yard from the Pariah) combined with the Distrust rules from Dark Magenta 1's psychology article (all allies around the Pariah are at -1 Speed, because they can't fully bring themselves to trust him... and his presence is distracting anyway).

As a version, this does something to make players think more about the drawbacks of psy-negativity.

Myself, I don't have any heavy end untouchables though. I have a couple of minor ones though, whose resistance manifests in different ways (one, for example, is more resistant to Telepathy than other disciplines, but that's partly down to additional anti-psychic training.)
In either case, though, their negativity only applies to the chances of it affecting them specifically - the penalty doesn't apply to the power as a whole, so it doesn't help other targets or affect the chance of psychic feedback.

[Kaled]

Welcome to the Conclave!

Not sure if you know, but the are already rules for varying levels of psy-negatives. There's the Pariah rule from Sgt Black, the Blunt rule from the Tau articles plus the rules from the Culexus article (all of which can be found in the archive maintained by Marco).

Still, there's certainly room to represent other characters with other levels of untouchableness. And the Culexus rules were never popular so could be reworked. I think it's a good idea to have more rules for untouchables, but I wouldn't necessarily tie them to Assignment levels - I'd come up with a set of ideas for how their blankness manifests and what effect(s) it has on the game so players can pick and choose the effects that best represent their character.

[Radu Lykan]

i like the idea of psychic blanks (so hard not to keep adding such characters to various wip war bands) and do think that there should be some sort of grading regarding their powers. I demand a DM article! 
i think marcos suggestion of the mistrust rules is a good one, dependant on the chaarcters negativity this could either have a lesser or greater affect in game.
do people think there should be rules for a psyker having any sort of physical contact with a blank? i imagine it actually hurts a psychic character to touch a blank one?
does any body else like the idea of some of the more negative characters being able to focus their powers in some way similar to psychic powers but with different effects than the psychic powers(i dont want this to be a way of including a psyker without the risks if you get me) maybe having debilitating effects on the targets mental characteristics like leadership etc?

[Charax]

i like the idea of psychic blanks (so hard not to keep adding such characters to various wip war bands) and do think that there should be some sort of grading regarding their powers. I demand a DM article! 

What, precisely, is stopping you writing one?

i think marcos suggestion of the mistrust rules is a good one, dependant on the chaarcters negativity this could either have a lesser or greater affect in game.

Agreed, people often take untouchables just because they're a convenient counter to psykers, completely forgetting the point of them being called untouchables

do people think there should be rules for a psyker having any sort of physical contact with a blank? i imagine it actually hurts a psychic character to touch a blank one?

I don't really think we need that level of granularity, those kinds of situations are rare enough that a GM can handle them and if there were any kind of rules for it you'd just have a warband's designated Untouchable charging towards the nearest psyker.

does any body else like the idea of some of the more negative characters being able to focus their powers in some way similar to psychic powers but with different effects than the psychic powers(i dont want this to be a way of including a psyker without the risks if you get me) maybe having debilitating effects on the targets mental characteristics like leadership etc?

Oh god no, those things are the unique purview of the Culexus temple. If an Untouchable can train and focus his abilities then what is the point of the Animus Speculum? The Officio Assassinorum could stop wasting their resources on rare and powerful equipment and just go into training regimes. HATE this idea, it cheapens the entire concept of the Culexus temple.

[greenstuff_gav]

do people think there should be rules for a psyker having any sort of physical contact with a blank? i imagine it actually hurts a psychic character to touch a blank one?

i've just started reading Malleus and while Abnet isn't the most 40k-aware author, i like that in it Eisenhorn receives a hug from a blank and it's mentioned how its all he can do not to convulse and push her away .. and that's after a hundred years of working with her!

[Koval]

do people think there should be rules for a psyker having any sort of physical contact with a blank? i imagine it actually hurts a psychic character to touch a blank one?

i've just started reading Malleus and while Abnet isn't the most 40k-aware author, i like that in it Eisenhorn receives a hug from a blank and it's mentioned how its all he can do not to convulse and push her away .. and that's after a hundred years of working with her!

Given Bequin's apparent transformation from a Pariah to a full-blown anti-psyker* in Hereticus, I'm trying very hard to imagine she doesn't exist.


*I'll try not to spoil it too much for you, but there's a scene involving her trying to use a force staff. It's quite early on in Hereticus and you'll see what I mean when you come to it.

[MarcoSkoll]

...and it's mentioned how its all he can do not to convulse and push her away

... then fall in love with her and go all brooding about how they can never be together. Hooray for consistency!

~~~~~

On the note of harming psykers, I agree with Charax that actually adding rules would just make them too good vs. psykers. They're already a right nightmare for psykers (who get a short end of the stick even without extra penalties).

~~~~~

To extend on what I said before, my ideal solution to psi-negatives would be a re-write of the psychic rules - you guys may or may not remember the set I proposed (where there was actually differentiation between a psyker's power, control, and safety).
Psy-negatives would fit solidly in that kind of thing by getting risk free (but automatic) nullification attempts, although with a set of drawbacks (like Distrust) to go with it.

You might eventually see a more developed version of those rules. A lot of notes have started appearing around my hard drive regarding ideas for my own version of 2nd edition Inquisitor. (Although probably more of a side curiosity, as I doubt it would gain enough popularity to become anything serious.)

[Charax]

God I hate Bequin. Nothing about her makes a lick of goddamn sense

[Dwi]

God I hate Bequin. Nothing about her makes a lick of goddamn sense

Heh. Then You may hate the new Bequin more considering shes the real Bequin's clone daughter/twin/thingy.

I still liked the new book though.

[Koval]

...Can I wish really hard and pretend that book doesn't exist?

[MarcoSkoll]

*Eye twitches*

*Carnage*

[Dwi]

To defend Abnet a bit cloneing tech dose exist in 40k. Now to throw him under the buss he dosent't explain it.

*Sigh*